In flames: Paris takes 149 electric buses off the road
Discussion
After two fires, Paris temporarily takes the affected model off the road. Similar cases also in southern France and Germany. Are e-buses really safe and ready for use?
https://www.green-zones.eu/en/blog-news/in-flames-...
https://www.firehouse.com/operations-training/vide...
https://www.green-zones.eu/en/blog-news/in-flames-...
https://www.firehouse.com/operations-training/vide...
bigothunter said:
After two fires, Paris temporarily takes the affected model off the road. Similar cases also in southern France and Germany. Are e-buses really safe and ready for use?
https://www.green-zones.eu/en/blog-news/in-flames-...
https://www.firehouse.com/operations-training/vide...
God i can't wait till any moving device with a battery is just considered normal and we can go back to being normal, rather than having to sit through this ^^^ sh*t day after day, after day.https://www.green-zones.eu/en/blog-news/in-flames-...
https://www.firehouse.com/operations-training/vide...
Buses of all sorts catch on fire all the time, as do cars, cats, aeroplanes, elephants and bananas.
here is the world wide list of causes of vehicluar fires:
1) Arson
2) Hot exhausts setting fire to dry grass and scrub
3) Brake / PAS / trans fluid fires on hot exhausts after an accident or due to poor maintainance
If we assume that 1) is as likely to occur to a BEV as an ICE, then that leaves 2) and 3) neither of which occur on a BEV.
Thing is, it could be a fault with the design, and it makes sense that they recall the busses to find out and sort it. Just like they would if they were powered any other way. I agree, it wouldn’t get a fraction of the attention or glee if they weren’t electric.
Incidentally, I haven’t found any evidence for elephants spontaneously combusting. Have I missed something?
Incidentally, I haven’t found any evidence for elephants spontaneously combusting. Have I missed something?
Max_Torque said:
God i can't wait till any moving device with a battery is just considered normal and we can go back to being normal, rather than having to sit through this ^^^ sh*t day after day, after day.
Buses of all sorts catch on fire all the time, as do cars, cats, aeroplanes, elephants and bananas.
here is the world wide list of causes of vehicluar fires:
1) Arson
2) Hot exhausts setting fire to dry grass and scrub
3) Brake / PAS / trans fluid fires on hot exhausts after an accident or due to poor maintainance
If we assume that 1) is as likely to occur to a BEV as an ICE, then that leaves 2) and 3) neither of which occur on a BEV.
Maybe you should take out your angst on the Paris authorities and tell them they are being very naughty.Buses of all sorts catch on fire all the time, as do cars, cats, aeroplanes, elephants and bananas.
here is the world wide list of causes of vehicluar fires:
1) Arson
2) Hot exhausts setting fire to dry grass and scrub
3) Brake / PAS / trans fluid fires on hot exhausts after an accident or due to poor maintainance
If we assume that 1) is as likely to occur to a BEV as an ICE, then that leaves 2) and 3) neither of which occur on a BEV.
Confused by your conclusion based on the stats above...the vast majority of vehicles worldwide are ICE so how is that relevant in this case?
Max_Torque said:
here is the world wide list of causes of vehicluar fires:
1) Arson
2) Hot exhausts setting fire to dry grass and scrub
3) Brake / PAS / trans fluid fires on hot exhausts after an accident or due to poor maintainance
If we assume that 1) is as likely to occur to a BEV as an ICE, then that leaves 2) and 3) neither of which occur on a BEV.
The BEV introduces a new danger in self-combusting while charging, which usually happens in the garage or near the home when everyone's asleep.
The most common way parked ICE cars catch fire is arson so the statistics aren't compareable.
Fast and Spurious said:
Maybe you should take out your angst on the Paris authorities and tell them they are being very naughty.
Confused by your conclusion based on the stats above...the vast majority of vehicles worldwide are ICE so how is that relevant in this case?
The Paris authorities have done the right thing.Confused by your conclusion based on the stats above...the vast majority of vehicles worldwide are ICE so how is that relevant in this case?
Some buses in Paris doesn't force the question "Are e-buses really safe and ready for use?".
I'm assuming most people still fly after the Boeing 737 MAX incidents?
bigothunter said:
After two fires, Paris temporarily takes the affected model off the road. Similar cases also in southern France and Germany. Are e-buses really safe and ready for use?
https://www.green-zones.eu/en/blog-news/in-flames-...
https://www.firehouse.com/operations-training/vide...
Over 400,000 e-buses operating in China. Just saying. https://www.green-zones.eu/en/blog-news/in-flames-...
https://www.firehouse.com/operations-training/vide...
Obviously a design defect with that particular model of bus. None of the electric buses we have in Manchester have burst into flames.
To say e-buses in general are not safe is idiotic. That’s like saying all petrol or diesel passenger cars are not safe after those Vauxhall Zafiras or Ford Focuses were catching fire a few years ago.
To say e-buses in general are not safe is idiotic. That’s like saying all petrol or diesel passenger cars are not safe after those Vauxhall Zafiras or Ford Focuses were catching fire a few years ago.
georgeyboy12345 said:
Obviously a design defect with that particular model of bus. None of the electric buses we have in Manchester have burst into flames.
To say e-buses in general are not safe is idiotic. That’s like saying all petrol or diesel passenger cars are not safe after those Vauxhall Zafiras or Ford Focuses were catching fire a few years ago.
bingo. but it fits the narrative of some. (not necessarily the OP, but plenty of folk)To say e-buses in general are not safe is idiotic. That’s like saying all petrol or diesel passenger cars are not safe after those Vauxhall Zafiras or Ford Focuses were catching fire a few years ago.
georgeyboy12345 said:
Obviously a design defect with that particular model of bus. None of the electric buses we have in Manchester have burst into flames.
To say e-buses in general are not safe is idiotic. That’s like saying all petrol or diesel passenger cars are not safe after those Vauxhall Zafiras or Ford Focuses were catching fire a few years ago.
Interestingly, and only after a quick Google, these busses appear to use Li-Po batteries, which is quite different to the majority of Chinese-derived busses which use the more stable, less prone to thermal-runaway LiFePO4 (LFP) chemistry.To say e-buses in general are not safe is idiotic. That’s like saying all petrol or diesel passenger cars are not safe after those Vauxhall Zafiras or Ford Focuses were catching fire a few years ago.
I wonder if we will see legislation that mandates LFP in certain applications. It's lower energy density and output, but also low-cobalt content.
Some strong reactions above to that EV fire episode in Paris. This Autocar article gives a balanced view. A couple of sections caught my eye. Hope they aren't too inflammatory:
No matter that petrol and diesel cars can catch fire and many of them do, an electric vehicle fire (there were 54 in London in 2019) commands a lot more attention. A few reasons: the technology is new, so newsworthy; EV fires are complex and often heralded by a highly toxic vapour cloud accompanied by a hissing noise and highly directional jets, followed, possibly, by an explosion; they can occur spontaneously; and putting out an EV fire is virtually impossible. You think it’s out and then it erupts again hours, days or even weeks later.
A battery flame is like a blowtorch that will quickly ignite anything in its path, which is why Christensen wants councils and other organisations to consider EV safety risks in underground car parks, as well as bus depots where vehicles are parked side by side. “In Germany, three bus depots have gone up in flames in the past six or so months,” he says. “Tunnels, ferries, car parks, cargo ships transporting EVs – all the places you find electric vehicles should be considered a safety risk and the appropriate steps taken.”
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/h...
Copenhagen has this containment solution for burning EVs...
No matter that petrol and diesel cars can catch fire and many of them do, an electric vehicle fire (there were 54 in London in 2019) commands a lot more attention. A few reasons: the technology is new, so newsworthy; EV fires are complex and often heralded by a highly toxic vapour cloud accompanied by a hissing noise and highly directional jets, followed, possibly, by an explosion; they can occur spontaneously; and putting out an EV fire is virtually impossible. You think it’s out and then it erupts again hours, days or even weeks later.
A battery flame is like a blowtorch that will quickly ignite anything in its path, which is why Christensen wants councils and other organisations to consider EV safety risks in underground car parks, as well as bus depots where vehicles are parked side by side. “In Germany, three bus depots have gone up in flames in the past six or so months,” he says. “Tunnels, ferries, car parks, cargo ships transporting EVs – all the places you find electric vehicles should be considered a safety risk and the appropriate steps taken.”
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/h...
Copenhagen has this containment solution for burning EVs...
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/electric-cars/h...
Define "explosion"? Most cars "explode" because the tyres or skock absorbers burst btw. It very rare for a BEV to catch on fire, stop, then catch on fire again later.
One significcant issue with liquid fuel cars is the fuel escaping an runing in a burning "river" away from the vehicle on fire. Fuel doesn't tend to burn (or explode) in the tank due to a lack of oxygen, but a decent amount of fuel certainly runs downhill on fire quite nicely:
Now i'm not saying that public and private entities should not at least consider the best mitigating actions for a BEV fire, of course they should, but there is no evidence to date that BEV either catch on fire more (they don't, mainly because they don't have hot exhausts/catalysts to set fire to dry grass and scrub, the no2 cause of fires worldwide ) or that the fires are in anyway significantly more damaging or dangerous than an ICE car burning.
Autocar said:
EV fires are complex and often heralded by a highly toxic vapour cloud accompanied by a hissing noise and highly directional jets, followed, possibly, by an explosion; they can occur spontaneously; and putting out an EV fire is virtually impossible. You think it’s out and then it erupts again hours, days or even weeks later.[/i]
Er, car fires are toxic full stop. get a lung full of smoke from any car on fire no matter what it's powered by and you'll be visiting a hospital.Define "explosion"? Most cars "explode" because the tyres or skock absorbers burst btw. It very rare for a BEV to catch on fire, stop, then catch on fire again later.
Autocar said:
A battery flame is like a blowtorch that will quickly ignite anything in its path, which is why Christensen wants councils and other organisations to consider EV safety risks in underground car parks, as well as bus depots where vehicles are parked side by side. “In Germany, three bus depots have gone up in flames in the past six or so months,” he says. “Tunnels, ferries, car parks, cargo ships transporting EVs – all the places you find electric vehicles should be considered a safety risk and the appropriate steps taken.”
"a blow torch" hmm, not really no. The flames from a battery fire aren't actually that hot and of course any burning vehicle in an underground car park or tunnel or ferry or whatever is a massive issue in itself. A burning vehicle has a huge heat release because you know, the car is on fire. Go burn some tyres and report back for example. One significcant issue with liquid fuel cars is the fuel escaping an runing in a burning "river" away from the vehicle on fire. Fuel doesn't tend to burn (or explode) in the tank due to a lack of oxygen, but a decent amount of fuel certainly runs downhill on fire quite nicely:
Now i'm not saying that public and private entities should not at least consider the best mitigating actions for a BEV fire, of course they should, but there is no evidence to date that BEV either catch on fire more (they don't, mainly because they don't have hot exhausts/catalysts to set fire to dry grass and scrub, the no2 cause of fires worldwide ) or that the fires are in anyway significantly more damaging or dangerous than an ICE car burning.
Autocar said:
A battery flame is like a blowtorch that will quickly ignite anything in its path, which is why Christensen wants councils and other organisations to consider EV safety risks in underground car parks, as well as bus depots where vehicles are parked side by side. “In Germany, three bus depots have gone up in flames in the past six or so months,” he says. “Tunnels, ferries, car parks, cargo ships transporting EVs – all the places you find electric vehicles should be considered a safety risk and the appropriate steps taken.”
Metro said:
Buses on fire after ‘huge explosion’ at London transport depot
https://metro.co.uk/2022/05/22/potters-bar-fire-hu...
But no need for concern folks, just business as usual. Nothing to see here https://metro.co.uk/2022/05/22/potters-bar-fire-hu...
Heres Johnny said:
bigothunter said:
But no need for concern folks, just business as usual. Nothing to see here
Max Torque has told us all there's nothing to worry about so we're either imagining it or its the stageset from the latest Tom Cruise film, "Top Bus driver"
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