How much is your EV costing you to run?

[anonymous-user]

Like everything the "trick" is to buy a car when no-one wants one, and to sell it when everone does want one!

Not that hard in principal, but these days you need a pretty decent crystall ball to try to forecast what and when those things happen!


(My best so far: 2015 bmw i3, bought ex-demo in early 2016 for £16,200 from main dealer with 367 miles on it. Part-Ex'd back to same dealer in 2021 for £15,800 with 30,000 odd miles on it!)

[Toaster Pilot]

poo at Paul's said:

I think it’s not as clear cut as people make out.
Cheapest electric cars are leaf’s and Zoe’s of around 2012 vintage, around 7k.
Similar miles and ages diesel Clio, 3k or so.
So it looks like the electric wins on percentages. But the Clio was 15k new, the Zoe 30k or so. So it’s close on percentages, and in pure value terms, one’s depreciated 23k, the other 12k.

The new gen of niros and id3 are holding fast due to supply issues and demand, but will this continue?
The cost of new EVs is a true barrier to entry.

Early Zoes were not £30k - given they’re battery leased they were far cheaper. Couldn’t give them away when they were 3 years old and now they’re increasing in value almost monthly.

[105.4]

This would seem like a suitable place to ask……

I work as a courier. Home-work-home is around 60-65 miles per day, (set rounds), and I have around 250-300kg in the back of my van at the start of each day.

Back in December I ordered a new van. A 130bhp diesel lwb, auto Citroen Berlingo. Expected delivery is August - September.

Im starting to wonder if I’ve made a mistake? Fuel costs are killing me!

My reluctance in ordering an electric Citroen was the fact that the battery cells are incorporated into the floorpan, so any issues with the battery means that the van is written off and Citroen only warranty the batteries for three years. With a diesel van I can fix just about any problem myself, up to and including cam belts, head gasket failure etc. with an electric van, I can’t. I’d aim for this new van to last me the next 20 years, as my current van is 17 years old and still has some life left in it.

Also, if we do suffer power rationing this winter, (and the Government are drawing up plans to deal with such contingencies), then I can’t work.

I’ve only placed a small deposit on the van, (the rest due on delivery), so I’d be happy to walk away from that if I was forced to.

Could an electric van have such longevity to last me 15 years+ ? How much servicing could I likely do myself?

I did have quite a reluctance to buy an electric vehicle, but the cost savings you guys are stating make it very tempting. And let’s be honest, the price of diesel isn’t going to get any cheaper.

[Maracus]

105.4 said:

This would seem like a suitable place to ask……

I work as a courier. Home-work-home is around 60-65 miles per day, (set rounds), and I have around 250-300kg in the back of my van at the start of each day.

Back in December I ordered a new van. A 130bhp diesel lwb, auto Citroen Berlingo. Expected delivery is August - September.

Im starting to wonder if I’ve made a mistake? Fuel costs are killing me!

My reluctance in ordering an electric Citroen was the fact that the battery cells are incorporated into the floorpan, so any issues with the battery means that the van is written off and Citroen only warranty the batteries for three years. With a diesel van I can fix just about any problem myself, up to and including cam belts, head gasket failure etc. with an electric van, I can’t. I’d aim for this new van to last me the next 20 years, as my current van is 17 years old and still has some life left in it.

Also, if we do suffer power rationing this winter, (and the Government are drawing up plans to deal with such contingencies), then I can’t work.

I’ve only placed a small deposit on the van, (the rest due on delivery), so I’d be happy to walk away from that if I was forced to.

Could an electric van have such longevity to last me 15 years+ ? How much servicing could I likely do myself?

I did have quite a reluctance to buy an electric vehicle, but the cost savings you guys are stating make it very tempting. And let’s be honest, the price of diesel isn’t going to get any cheaper.

This guy makes some interesting clips on using his Nissan EV van - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQ44dUiYZz0

[caziques]

105.4 said:

This would seem like a suitable place to ask……

I work as a courier. Home-work-home is around 60-65 miles per day, (set rounds), and I have around 250-300kg in the back of my van at the start of each day.

Back in December I ordered a new van. A 130bhp diesel lwb, auto Citroen Berlingo. Expected delivery is August - September.

Im starting to wonder if I’ve made a mistake? Fuel costs are killing me!

My reluctance in ordering an electric Citroen was the fact that the battery cells are incorporated into the floorpan, so any issues with the battery means that the van is written off and Citroen only warranty the batteries for three years. With a diesel van I can fix just about any problem myself, up to and including cam belts, head gasket failure etc. with an electric van, I can’t. I’d aim for this new van to last me the next 20 years, as my current van is 17 years old and still has some life left in it.

Also, if we do suffer power rationing this winter, (and the Government are drawing up plans to deal with such contingencies), then I can’t work.

I’ve only placed a small deposit on the van, (the rest due on delivery), so I’d be happy to walk away from that if I was forced to.

Could an electric van have such longevity to last me 15 years+ ? How much servicing could I likely do myself?

I did have quite a reluctance to buy an electric vehicle, but the cost savings you guys are stating make it very tempting. And let’s be honest, the price of diesel isn’t going to get any cheaper.

You're going to have make the change sometime, why not now?

Looked after batteries are going to last for many, many years.

And don't forget effectively zero servicing with EV

For 60-65 miles you would need perhaps 20kWhrs of electricity. A 40kWhr eNV200 would work, is it big enough? could you get one?

Some second hand ones on ebay for around 20,000.

Big advantage with a second hand ev is you can see the state of the battery before you buy.

[Toaster Pilot]

105.4 said:

Also, if we do suffer power rationing this winter, (and the Government are drawing up plans to deal with such contingencies), then I can’t work.
.

Oh FFS.

I was listening to your concerns but that’s just ridiculous. There’s more chance of diesel rationing the way things are going

[OutInTheShed]

caziques said:

You're going to have make the change sometime, why not now?

Looked after batteries are going to last for many, many years.

And don't forget effectively zero servicing with EV

For 60-65 miles you would need perhaps 20kWhrs of electricity. A 40kWhr eNV200 would work, is it big enough? could you get one?

Some second hand ones on ebay for around 20,000.

Big advantage with a second hand ev is you can see the state of the battery before you buy.

So why do Citroen only guarantee the battery for 3 years?
My guess that would be based on actually having talked to cell manufacturers and dividing the cell life of something like 1000 cycles by an intensive use pattern of 3 full cycles a day perhaps?

The bean counters will understand the logic of sweating the asset for 3 years and then selling it on..

105.4 is doing 60 miles a day, £20 of diesel?. If that's 'killing him', it's not just a new van he needs.

[Evanivitch]

OutInTheShed said:

So why do Citroen only guarantee the battery for 3 years?
My guess that would be based on actually having talked to cell manufacturers and dividing the cell life of something like 1000 cycles by an intensive use pattern of 3 full cycles a day perhaps?

The bean counters will understand the logic of sweating the asset for 3 years and then selling it on..

105.4 is doing 60 miles a day, £20 of diesel?. If that's 'killing him', it's not just a new van he needs.

Citroen warranty the e-Berlingon to 8 years and 100,00 miles.on the battery.

Citroen said:

BEST IN CLASS
New Citroën ë-Berlingo Van 100% ëlectric provides quiet and easy electric driving. Equipped with a 50kWh battery, it offers a range of up to 171 miles on the WLTP cycle, giving you a more precise and realistic view of your van’s range based on real world use. The battery is covered by a manufacturer’s warranty for 8 years or 100,000 miles for 70% of its charge capacity.

[105.4]

OutInTheShed said:

105.4 is doing 60 miles a day, £20 of diesel?. If that's 'killing him', it's not just a new van he needs.

I didn’t mean literally, but thanks for your thoughtful insight.

[OutInTheShed]

Evanivitch said:

OutInTheShed said:

So why do Citroen only guarantee the battery for 3 years?
My guess that would be based on actually having talked to cell manufacturers and dividing the cell life of something like 1000 cycles by an intensive use pattern of 3 full cycles a day perhaps?

The bean counters will understand the logic of sweating the asset for 3 years and then selling it on..

105.4 is doing 60 miles a day, £20 of diesel?. If that's 'killing him', it's not just a new van he needs.

Citroen warranty the e-Berlingon to 8 years and 100,00 miles.on the battery.

Citroen said:

BEST IN CLASS
New Citroën ë-Berlingo Van 100% ëlectric provides quiet and easy electric driving. Equipped with a 50kWh battery, it offers a range of up to 171 miles on the WLTP cycle, giving you a more precise and realistic view of your van’s range based on real world use. The battery is covered by a manufacturer’s warranty for 8 years or 100,000 miles for 70% of its charge capacity.

100k miles, roughly 1000 real cycles. I expect there are vans which do that in less than 3 years.

[Evanivitch]

OutInTheShed said:

100k miles, roughly 1000 real cycles. I expect there are vans which do that in less than 3 years.

Of course, but it's a better warranty than on any ICE van, is it not?

Plus, the stop-start nature of many urban and delivery vehicles is ideal for electric vans. Whilst a petrol or diesel vehicle would not appreciate such short runs and frequent engine off cycles.

I'd also be surprised if you're buying a 50kWh van to do 300 miles in a day with at least 2 approximately one hour stops. I'm sure someone will, but not in the majority.

But thanks for acknowledging your mistake on the warranty.

[WhiskyDisco]

105.4 said:

This would seem like a suitable place to ask……

I work as a courier. Home-work-home is around 60-65 miles per day, (set rounds), and I have around 250-300kg in the back of my van at the start of each day.

Back in December I ordered a new van. A 130bhp diesel lwb, auto Citroen Berlingo. Expected delivery is August - September.

Im starting to wonder if I’ve made a mistake? Fuel costs are killing me!

I would say stick to the Berlingo, and take delivery. My mate runs a fleet of Berlingos and Caddys. Wrapped from new, and reaching 100k in 3 years he sells them on in VGC. I think he was paying just over £10k for the Berlingos 3 years ago - they are good vans too. He's finding that they are fetching very good money - this is due to them being in short supply. If you are able to buy one this year I would go for it.

[anonymous-user]

105.4 said:

With a diesel van I can fix just about any problem myself, up to and including cam belts, head gasket failure etc. with an electric van, I can’t. .

If you are skilled enough to change a cam belt, then you could easily change a battery or even a battery module. Working on a BEV is easy, very easy. Yes, there are a few things you need to learn to do to be safe, but really, once you have done those basics, you can fix any EV for less than you can fix a much more complex ICE.

There are BEV tech courses you can go on to learn too:

https://motor-skills.co.uk/


Trust me it's not difficult or expensive and will give you some life skills that are seriously sort after in this day and age :-)

[105.4]

Toaster Pilot said:

105.4 said:

Also, if we do suffer power rationing this winter, (and the Government are drawing up plans to deal with such contingencies), then I can’t work.
.

Oh FFS.

I was listening to your concerns but that’s just ridiculous. There’s more chance of diesel rationing the way things are going

I’m not sure you’ve been taking notice of what’s been going on. Only time will tell of course, but I sincerely hope that you’re still laughing at me in 8 months time, because if you’re not, then we’re all in trouble.

However, you may wish to take heed of the comments by German Economy Minister Robert Habbeck and the bosses of three of Frances largest energy companies have all urged this week. This winter is shaping up to be deeply unpleasant. Whilst I concede that we are in better shape than Germany, when it comes to energy production, we’re lagging behind France.

[caziques]

WhiskyDisco said:

I would say stick to the Berlingo, and take delivery. My mate runs a fleet of Berlingos and Caddys. Wrapped from new, and reaching 100k in 3 years he sells them on in VGC. I think he was paying just over £10k for the Berlingos 3 years ago - they are good vans too. He's finding that they are fetching very good money - this is due to them being in short supply. If you are able to buy one this year I would go for it.

Which begs the question, why sell a three year old vehicle?

Presumably because of potential mechanical failure - which doesn't happen with a BEV.

OK, New Zealand is a bit different, but it's possible a new MG ZS EV I've ordered will last me for 20 or 30 years (no rust to kill off old cars).

My Nissan eNV200 has had zero routine maintenance in 5 years and 50,000 miles.

I will never buy another ICE vehicle in my lifetime (now 65)

[Phunk]

105.4 said:

Toaster Pilot said:

105.4 said:

Also, if we do suffer power rationing this winter, (and the Government are drawing up plans to deal with such contingencies), then I can’t work.
.

Oh FFS.

I was listening to your concerns but that’s just ridiculous. There’s more chance of diesel rationing the way things are going

I’m not sure you’ve been taking notice of what’s been going on. Only time will tell of course, but I sincerely hope that you’re still laughing at me in 8 months time, because if you’re not, then we’re all in trouble.

However, you may wish to take heed of the comments by German Economy Minister Robert Habbeck and the bosses of three of Frances largest energy companies have all urged this week. This winter is shaping up to be deeply unpleasant. Whilst I concede that we are in better shape than Germany, when it comes to energy production, we’re lagging behind France.

Lagging behind France? The country that’s currently shut several of its Nuclear power stations down and we’re maxing out our sub sea connection to them?

The UK is most certainly not going to suffer power rationing this winter, we’re very well positioned with more and more wind coming online every month and 3 different sources of gas.

[Register1]

My wife decided its time for a Tesla 3.
Order placed last week, delivery in about 8 months.

Her only wanted the standard M3,
Her options were just the alternative white upholstery, and the nicer allow wheels.

Test driving them, they are very good.

Not as quiet as her current V6 Touareg, but the Touareg is / was the VW flagship vehicle, so bound to be very quiet.

[Prolex-UK]

Register1 said:

My wife decided its time for a Tesla 3.
Order placed last week, delivery in about 8 months.

Her only wanted the standard M3,
Her options were just the alternative white upholstery, and the nicer allow wheels.

Test driving them, they are very good.

Not as quiet as her current V6 Touareg, but the Touareg is / was the VW flagship vehicle, so bound to be very quiet.

Looking to get a 2020 tesla long range

Insurance was £800 with a tracker... Current car is 330...polestar libg range 340....

Think will be going swedish

[M4cruiser]

Max_Torque said:

105.4 said:

With a diesel van I can fix just about any problem myself, up to and including cam belts, head gasket failure etc. with an electric van, I can’t. .

If you are skilled enough to change a cam belt, then you could easily change a battery or even a battery module. Working on a BEV is easy, very easy. Yes, there are a few things you need to learn to do to be safe, but really, once you have done those basics, you can fix any EV for less than you can fix a much more complex ICE.

There are BEV tech courses you can go on to learn too:

https://motor-skills.co.uk/


Trust me it's not difficult or expensive and will give you some life skills that are seriously sort after in this day and age :-)

I feel the same as 105.4 on this. I doubt my £30 Ebay OBD2 code-reader will do anything on an EV, so I'll need some pretty expensive tools ro replace my well-used spanner kit.

[Toaster Pilot]

M4cruiser said:

I feel the same as 105.4 on this. I doubt my £30 Ebay OBD2 code-reader will do anything on an EV, so I'll need some pretty expensive tools ro replace my well-used spanner kit.

You’d be surprised - EVs use exactly the same diagnostic protocols. A code reader that is actually useful for a modern ICE car will serve you very well, a basic one that can just do engine codes not so much.