Best upcoming EVs? What's worth waiting for?

[JonChalk]

page3 said:

Tesla Model 2*

Or any medium sized family hatchback.

• yes, I know it doesn’t exist.

...and never wil.

[SWoll]

page3 said:

Tesla Model 2*

Or any medium sized family hatchback.

• yes, I know it doesn’t exist.

The VW ID3 is exactly what you describe and has been available in the UK since 2020.

croyde said:

I'm waiting for any EV where I can take the battery out and carry over 100m and up the stairs to my flat in order to charge it.

Still seems to me that an electric car just cannot cut it with the majority of people who don't have a nice house with a drive/garage or the ability to park and charge at work.

After 'downgrading' from a 400bhp V8 and an old school 90s BMW in-line 6 to a modern 3cyl 1.0 petrol, I'm now accepting of a small EV

But it's just not going to work.

You need to check your assumptions. The majority of car owners do have access to home charging according to every study I've seen. There are of course still large numbers of owners that don't, but then as of today they don't need to and have decades to sort it out before buying a used ICE car isn't an option.

You can'r expect answers to every problem immediately, not a lot of point in investing heavily in street charging etc. if they are just going to sit idle due to the cost and supply limitations of EV's.

[croyde]

There is no way that the majority of Londoners have access to home charging unless they trail extension cables across pavements if they are lucky enough to afford a terrace house and manage to nab a parking space outside.

And surely a big city like London would benefit from drivers switching to electric.

But I take on board what you said and I'll shut up now as I read the thread with interest but realise that this isn't the place to discuss the viability of EVs. Couldn't help myself.

[Silvanus]

SWoll said:

page3 said:

Tesla Model 2*

Or any medium sized family hatchback.

• yes, I know it doesn’t exist.

The VW ID3 is exactly what you describe and has been available in the UK since 2020.

croyde said:

I'm waiting for any EV where I can take the battery out and carry over 100m and up the stairs to my flat in order to charge it.

Still seems to me that an electric car just cannot cut it with the majority of people who don't have a nice house with a drive/garage or the ability to park and charge at work.

After 'downgrading' from a 400bhp V8 and an old school 90s BMW in-line 6 to a modern 3cyl 1.0 petrol, I'm now accepting of a small EV

But it's just not going to work.

You need to check your assumptions. The majority of car owners do have access to home charging according to every study I've seen. There are of course still large numbers of owners that don't, but then as of today they don't need to and have decades to sort it out before buying a used ICE car isn't an option.

You can'r expect answers to every problem immediately, not a lot of point in investing heavily in street charging etc. if they are just going to sit idle due to the cost and supply limitations of EV's.

There are 100s of thousands of people that would currently have no access to a home charge, or anywhere to put one. I agree they aren't the majority but is still an awful lot of people

[SWoll]

croyde said:

There is no way that the majority of Londoners have access to home charging unless they trail extension cables across pavements if they are lucky enough to afford a terrace house and manage to nab a parking space outside.

And surely a big city like London would benefit from drivers switching to electric.

But I take on board what you said and I'll shut up now as I read the thread with interest but realise that this isn't the place to discuss the viability of EVs. Couldn't help myself.

There is no way that the majority of Londoners own a car, especially in the inner boroughs where a lack of parking and charging would be a significant issue. London traffic is overwhelmingly made up of people driving in rather than people who live there.

[Silvanus]

SWoll said:

croyde said:

There is no way that the majority of Londoners have access to home charging unless they trail extension cables across pavements if they are lucky enough to afford a terrace house and manage to nab a parking space outside.

And surely a big city like London would benefit from drivers switching to electric.

But I take on board what you said and I'll shut up now as I read the thread with interest but realise that this isn't the place to discuss the viability of EVs. Couldn't help myself.

There is no way that the majority of Londoners own a car, especially in the inner boroughs where a lack of parking and charging would be a significant issue. London traffic is overwhelmingly made up of people driving in rather than people who live there.

There are 2.6m cars registered in London. 54 per cent of London households have at least one car. There are plenty of PHers that would say 54 percent is a majority

[ZesPak]

croyde said:

I'm waiting for any EV where I can take the battery out and carry over 100m and up the stairs to my flat in order to charge it.
Still seems to me that an electric car just cannot cut it with the majority of people who don't have a nice house with a drive/garage or the ability to park and charge at work.

That on itself is a pretty small chunk of the population.

My sister falls into that category, but she does very little miles which means she can get by by just charging 2h/week at our parents' (we visit them weekly anyway).

When my driveway was being done, I just plugged it in at the sports' center, which I'm at about 5h/week, enough for about 300km. In reality plugging in 3x a week for a couple of hours still took me less time than refuelling would every two weeks.

And this is in a situation that is improving by the day. With more and more businesses and car parks putting up chargers, the number people who fall into your niche definition shrinks every day.
As pointed out, for the foreseeable they can still buy new ICE, and after that decades of second hand ICE cars.

Edited by ZesPak on Saturday 11th June 12:05

[giveitfish]

Not to derail the thread any further, but don’t worry too much about home charging.

Our entire company car fleet has been Tesla Model 3’s for 18 months and yet none of the reps have installed a home charger (because the company won’t pay for them).

The reps are all still managing to do over 25k miles a year all the same. They just charge while out and about.

[SWoll]

Silvanus said:

There are 100s of thousands of people that would currently have no access to a home charge, or anywhere to put one. I agree they aren't the majority but is still an awful lot of people

Yep, I completely agree with you. You do need to consider how many of those people actually own cars or could currently afford an EV even if they could charge it though?

New ICE ban is currently set for 2030, hybrid ICE 2035 and used sales for a long time past that. How many of these people are going to absolutely have a solution for home charging in the next 15-20 years?

I read these comments and it always comes across like everyone is being forced to change in the next 6-12 months or be forced off the road. They have decades to sort out solutions and for technology to improve.

[Silvanus]

ZesPak said:

croyde said:

I'm waiting for any EV where I can take the battery out and carry over 100m and up the stairs to my flat in order to charge it.
Still seems to me that an electric car just cannot cut it with the majority of people who don't have a nice house with a drive/garage or the ability to park and charge at work.

That on itself is a pretty small chunk of the population.

My sister falls into that category, but she does very little miles which means she can get by by just charging 2h/week at our parents' (we visit them weekly anyway).

When my driveway was being done, I just plugged it in at the sports' center, which I'm at about 5h/week, enough for about 300km. In reality plugging in 3x a week for a couple of hours still took me less time than refuelling would every two weeks.

And this is in a situation that is improving by the day. With more and more businesses and car parks putting up chargers, the number people who fall into your niche definition shrinks every day.
As pointed out, for the foreseeable they can still buy new ICE, and after that decades of second hand ICE cars.

Edited by ZesPak on Saturday 11th June 12:05

Posters keep saying its a small number of people, where are these stats to back that up, I know loads of people who fall into this category, there must be many thousands at least

[Fusion777]

SWoll said:

I read these comments and it always comes across like everyone is being forced to change in the next 6-12 months or be forced off the road. They have decades to sort out solutions and for technology to improve.

That's an opinion that's far too reasonable and considered. Needs more populist rants about government tyranny and the persecution of the motorist.

[Silvanus]

Fusion777 said:

SWoll said:

I read these comments and it always comes across like everyone is being forced to change in the next 6-12 months or be forced off the road. They have decades to sort out solutions and for technology to improve.

That's an opinion that's far too reasonable and considered. Needs more populist rants about government tyranny and the persecution of the motorist.

Indeed, any luck infrastructure and car tech will get to a point that in the next 10 years or so, an electric car (or what ever tech proves is best) will be available to anyone who needs or wants one. I'm quite sure that will be the case as car manufacturers like selling cars and governments like tax revenue (I have no issues with taxing cars and motorists)

[kambites]

Silvanus said:

Posters keep saying its a small number of people, where are these stats to back that up, I know loads of people who fall into this category, there must be many thousands at least

According to the RAC, 65% of UK households have, or could have (I assume meaning they have front gardens which could be converted), private off-street parking at home. Not sure of their source though.

So we need another solution for roughly one third of households but obviously those third are not going to be evenly spread; in some areas they will be a majority.

[SWoll]

Silvanus said:

Posters keep saying its a small number of people, where are these stats to back that up, I know loads of people who fall into this category, there must be many thousands at least

No one has said small number of people, just not a majarity. As above there are a number of factors to consider other than your own personal experience.

Many thousands in a country with 32 million cars is a very small number BTW.

kambites said:

According to the RAC, 65% of UK households have, or could have (I assume meaning they have front gardens which could be converted), private off-street parking at home. Not sure of their source though.

And then consider the 35% also includes a significant number of people who don't own a car.

Edited by SWoll on Saturday 11th June 12:21

[Silvanus]

SWoll said:

Silvanus said:

Posters keep saying its a small number of people, where are these stats to back that up, I know loads of people who fall into this category, there must be many thousands at least

No one has said small number of people, just not a majarity. As above there are a number of factors to consider other than your own personal experience.

Many thousands in a country with 32 million cars is a very small number BTW.

kambites said:

According to the RAC, 65% of UK households have, or could have (I assume meaning they have front gardens which could be converted), private off-street parking at home. Not sure of their source though.

And then consider the 35% also includes a significant number of people who don't own a car.

Edited by SWoll on Saturday 11th June 12:21

I'd say descriptions such as 'a small chunk' would refer to a small percentage. You are playing around with figures. I've stated some actually figures regarding London, but elsewhere I've been using personal observations and have not stated that they are facts. There is currently a massive infrastructure problem with regards to electric cars, although I'm quite sure this will get addressed in the coming years. Hopefully there will also be some cheaper car options too.

[lemmingjames]

Every house could be a charging point though that people could 'rent' out by the hour and pay the house hold the hourly charge rate or, for example, tesla could install a public charger on your grounds and you get a subside from that.

Ok sure, there's a few kinks to iron out, but imagine if your an oap with means to charge other cars. Could be a nice passive income for the pension pot and if you don't drive, the driveway/off street parking is just going to waste. Or you have to commute so the drive ways empty but your close to a train station, you could rent that space out. Its already happened with parking for football stadiums except now you just add in a charger.

All of a sudden you don't need specialised charging station everywhere as 'every' house could do it.

But anyway, back to cars we are looking forward to...

[ZesPak]

Silvanus said:

Posters keep saying its a small number of people, where are these stats to back that up, I know loads of people who fall into this category, there must be many thousands at least

kambites said:

According to the RAC, 65% of UK households have, or could have (I assume meaning they have front gardens which could be converted), private off-street parking at home. Not sure of their source though.

So we need another solution for roughly one third of households but obviously those third are not going to be evenly spread; in some areas they will be a majority.

As I said, the number of people we need a solution for is much, much lower.

From those people who do not have off street parking at home, you have to substract:

1. people with a dedicated garage box or parking spot that they could have electricity to
2. people that could charge in the street in front of their house already
3. people that could charge at work or at clients without any extra inconvenience

On the other side you have people that don't travel for work, they mostly won't need to charge more than once a week. This could be at the store, at relatives, at the gym,...

And all of that is ignoring fast and superchargers. Since that looks most like filling up, which is the most inconvenient way of charging.

I am a bit biased, working and living in the Benelux now. Most stores I go to I could plug in my car, the gym, the public pool, almost every one of my clients (especially the ones in the Netherlands), almost every public parking lot,...
Most of this infrastructure was set up in less than half a decade. The people in that niche, with no where convenient to charge ever, will shrink to near zero.
Others will have to drive to a specific "filling station" every now and then and then wait for their car to be full. Which, as an EV owner, sounds like a nightmare but I think some people can live with it.

[SWoll]

Silvanus said:

I'd say descriptions such as 'a small chunk' would refer to a small percentage. You are playing around with figures. I've stated some actually figures regarding London, but elsewhere I've been using personal observations and have not stated that they are facts. There is currently a massive infrastructure problem with regards to electric cars, although I'm quite sure this will get addressed in the coming years. Hopefully there will also be some cheaper car options too.

Why is there a massive infrastructure problem? As above there are still very few on the road and decades for them to hit critical mass. With the ever improvement in technology why would anyone invest in providing the infrastructure to charge millions of them today for it to sit idle and become defunct?

Current EV's will enter the used market and filter down as with any new car over the coming years and more choice will come about as additional manufacturers enter the marketplace

It's still very early days for Ev's and people are being both illogical and unrealistic in their expectations IMHO.

[delta0]

croyde said:

I'm waiting for any EV where I can take the battery out and carry over 100m and up the stairs to my flat in order to charge it.

Still seems to me that an electric car just cannot cut it with the majority of people who don't have a nice house with a drive/garage or the ability to park and charge at work.

After 'downgrading' from a 400bhp V8 and an old school 90s BMW in-line 6 to a modern 3cyl 1.0 petrol, I'm now accepting of a small EV

But it's just not going to work.

https://www.zipcharge.global/

Edited by delta0 on Saturday 11th June 15:15

[page3]

croyde said:

Still seems to me that an electric car just cannot cut it with the majority of people who don't have a nice house with a drive/garage or the ability to park and charge at work.

That’s a pretty closed viewpoint. My brother runs his EV without a driveway or garage. Charges via lamppost chargers and rapids.