Why do they feel slow?
Discussion
TheDeuce said:
I don't know what point you're trying to prove. 1g in bed!? That's perpetual force. 1g lateral is entirely different.
I used to drag race. I know the benefits of sticky tyres and strip. But if you Google it you'll see endless real world examples of these cars doing a give or take 2 second run to 60 with no prep at all. The tyres these days are good enough and the AWD and weight sees to the rest. The motor torque control can also acheive a perfect torque delivery unlike anything ICE could hope to deliver.
Don't take my word for it, watch the hundreds of videos of it being easily achieved.
Easily and boringly achieved?I used to drag race. I know the benefits of sticky tyres and strip. But if you Google it you'll see endless real world examples of these cars doing a give or take 2 second run to 60 with no prep at all. The tyres these days are good enough and the AWD and weight sees to the rest. The motor torque control can also acheive a perfect torque delivery unlike anything ICE could hope to deliver.
Don't take my word for it, watch the hundreds of videos of it being easily achieved.
If you want your 1g lateral, just lie on your side for a bit.
Without context, 1 or 2 g acceleration is maybe not necessarily exciting?
Maybe more so for the 'watch hundreds of videos' generation?
Perhaps what's really fun is rapid (and maybe unpredictable?) changes in acceleration?
Like a mountain bike or sailboard which never makes it above 30mph can be a lot more fun than anything reasonable in a car on the public road?
OutInTheShed said:
TheDeuce said:
I don't know what point you're trying to prove. 1g in bed!? That's perpetual force. 1g lateral is entirely different.
I used to drag race. I know the benefits of sticky tyres and strip. But if you Google it you'll see endless real world examples of these cars doing a give or take 2 second run to 60 with no prep at all. The tyres these days are good enough and the AWD and weight sees to the rest. The motor torque control can also acheive a perfect torque delivery unlike anything ICE could hope to deliver.
Don't take my word for it, watch the hundreds of videos of it being easily achieved.
Easily and boringly achieved?I used to drag race. I know the benefits of sticky tyres and strip. But if you Google it you'll see endless real world examples of these cars doing a give or take 2 second run to 60 with no prep at all. The tyres these days are good enough and the AWD and weight sees to the rest. The motor torque control can also acheive a perfect torque delivery unlike anything ICE could hope to deliver.
Don't take my word for it, watch the hundreds of videos of it being easily achieved.
If you want your 1g lateral, just lie on your side for a bit.
Without context, 1 or 2 g acceleration is maybe not necessarily exciting?
Maybe more so for the 'watch hundreds of videos' generation?
Perhaps what's really fun is rapid (and maybe unpredictable?) changes in acceleration?
Like a mountain bike or sailboard which never makes it above 30mph can be a lot more fun than anything reasonable in a car on the public road?
You seem to want to argue for the sake of it, but I'm not even sure what your point is. Let's just leave it.
Well, I've had numerous performance ICE cars over the years and a Model 3 P recently for 2 years. None of the ICE cars came close to the ferocity and responsiveness of the Tesla and every passenger I took for a 'demo' either spent the whole time laughing out loud or on the verge of vomiting. A genuinely physical experience, but 100% affected by battery charge and external temperatures. In the summer straight after a supercharging session it was frankly ridiculous and I can only imagine what a Model S Plaid must feel like.
In those 2 years I never once took it out on a Sunday morning just for a drive though..
In those 2 years I never once took it out on a Sunday morning just for a drive though..
SWoll said:
Well, I've had numerous performance ICE cars over the years and a Model 3 P recently for 2 years. None of the ICE cars came close to the ferocity and responsiveness of the Tesla and every passenger I took for a 'demo' either spent the whole time laughing out loud or on the verge of vomiting. A genuinely physical experience, but 100% affected by battery charge and external temperatures. In the summer straight after a supercharging session it was frankly ridiculous and I can only imagine what a Model S Plaid must feel like.
In those 2 years I never once took it out on a Sunday morning just for a drive though..
I think most EV's, fast as they are, aren't particularly fun - other than the hilarity of the straight line speed. But I really do enjoy mine. I tested several ahead of choosing and it really stood out.In those 2 years I never once took it out on a Sunday morning just for a drive though..
But I'm an engineer and I think some of the joy I find is due to seeing such a great advancement in car design, and revelling in the abilities of the machine itself - so it's more technical validation for me, as opposed to 'soul'.
For soul, I'm just waiting for the market to relax a bit so I can finally pick up a V8 M3. The last M car before emission issues compromised the power plant. Then, I'll havethe best of both worlds - and a decent investment I suspect.
Guys I'm not poo pooing the electric car world here. I really wanted the Tesla to blow my socks off.
What I cannot fathom, the stats give one picture, but the experience was not what I was hoping for. Other vehicles have given me the savage feeling when in anything sub 4 seconds to 60. As a passenger I normally go quiet rather than make noise during harsh acceleration...
My friend played with some buttons when stationary. Did some more when on an A road and then gave me the "experience."
like i mention, I dont think I;ve ever seen a speedo count up that fast before. There is no question of the performance. The question is the experience, I genuinely thought we were going 50mph. The speed we got to was much much different.
The other thing I found interesting was the braking, or rather lack of use of the brakes. The clever regen kit stops quicker than what I usually do in my ICE car. Must save a fortune on brake discs and pads
What I cannot fathom, the stats give one picture, but the experience was not what I was hoping for. Other vehicles have given me the savage feeling when in anything sub 4 seconds to 60. As a passenger I normally go quiet rather than make noise during harsh acceleration...
My friend played with some buttons when stationary. Did some more when on an A road and then gave me the "experience."
like i mention, I dont think I;ve ever seen a speedo count up that fast before. There is no question of the performance. The question is the experience, I genuinely thought we were going 50mph. The speed we got to was much much different.
The other thing I found interesting was the braking, or rather lack of use of the brakes. The clever regen kit stops quicker than what I usually do in my ICE car. Must save a fortune on brake discs and pads
TheDeuce said:
charltjr said:
Assume you mean the Model X?
Did he have it in the proper launch mode? It only does those numbers in ludicrous mode which takes some battery prep and playing with the settings before doing a launch.
If not, then it’s certainly not slow but it’s not going to do low 3 seconds to 60.
Nope, model S. Model x is the SUV.Did he have it in the proper launch mode? It only does those numbers in ludicrous mode which takes some battery prep and playing with the settings before doing a launch.
If not, then it’s certainly not slow but it’s not going to do low 3 seconds to 60.
Model S Plaid is the quickest one.
And it certainly will do 0-60 well under 3 seconds without launch control or pre conditioning. This chap gets 2:19 on his second casual attempt: https://youtu.be/JL2Lay0H4FQ
The power and torque of dual motor EV's is brutal. As is the traction they achieve. The Tesla and Taycan can deliver 2 and bit seconds to 60 on a whim.
I’m well aware of what an S Plaid can do, but that’s not what they’re talking about
OutInTheShed said:
Easily and boringly achieved?
If you want your 1g lateral, just lie on your side for a bit.
Without context, 1 or 2 g acceleration is maybe not necessarily exciting?
What a ridiculous point.If you want your 1g lateral, just lie on your side for a bit.
Without context, 1 or 2 g acceleration is maybe not necessarily exciting?
Comparing the force of gravity to lateral acceleration is only valid if you fall out of bed or say jump out of an aeroplane.
You (obviously) don’t feel any acceleration if you are just lying in the bed.
TheDeuce said:
Probably, but we'll learn the figures at release. it'll have to be sub 5 seconds to 100mph to even join the party. If they can get it below 4 seconds I'll be very impressed!
But more than anything I'd want to know what it feels like to drive, and as you say, that's just for the chosen few - if they even bother..
Getting there already with the SF90 and having had use of one for a weekend they are ridiculously quick, actually to quick but in a more dramatic way than any current EV.But more than anything I'd want to know what it feels like to drive, and as you say, that's just for the chosen few - if they even bother..
South tdf said:
TheDeuce said:
Probably, but we'll learn the figures at release. it'll have to be sub 5 seconds to 100mph to even join the party. If they can get it below 4 seconds I'll be very impressed!
But more than anything I'd want to know what it feels like to drive, and as you say, that's just for the chosen few - if they even bother..
Getting there already with the SF90 and having had use of one for a weekend they are ridiculously quick, actually to quick but in a more dramatic way than any current EV.But more than anything I'd want to know what it feels like to drive, and as you say, that's just for the chosen few - if they even bother..
paradigital said:
My Mk1 TT v6 roadster sounds like it should be the quickest car I own, it’s certainly the loudest and the most analogue, it’s the most sensation tingling as well, with the roof off, but it feels (and is) massively slower than the Tesla. I wouldn’t be surprised if my wife’s Passat GTE could have it from the lights.
I braved the outside lane the other day in the 370Z Roadster at the lights next to a small diesel SUV of some description, it booted it and I had to absolutely thrash the arse off the 370Z to get in front, so I can definitely relate to what you are saying. The 370 makes a load of noise, but it weirdly doesn't seem to live up to the 5.5 seconds that it is supposed to do 0 to 60mph in though. I guess the weight of 1600kg mated to a NA engine/manual gearbox doesn't help. cerb4.5lee said:
I've always thought that the only thing a Tesla had going for it was the performance(I personally dont like the way they look inside or outside). So if they don't even "feel" fast...then what is the actual point of them apart from the tax benefits?
They do feel fast. Exactly as fast as they are. They feel as fast as a Ferrari. Because they are.
They just don’t sound fast. Which is different and either is or is not important, depending on whether you think it is important or not.
cerb4.5lee said:
I've always thought that the only thing a Tesla had going for it was the performance(I personally dont like the way they look inside or outside). So if they don't even "feel" fast...then what is the actual point of them apart from the tax benefits?
They do feel fast, uncomfortably so. I still remember vividly the first time I took ours out on the day of delivery with the wife and kids as passengers and gave it the beans. The look on their faces was a picture.There are of course many other benefits. Quiet and stealthy, zero emissions around town, super smooth and responsive, a full battery every morning, 2p per mile in 'fuel' for 500bhp, incredibly practical for their size due to packaging advantages, almost zero maintenance required etc.
It's because unlike fossil cars, EVs don't grind and strain as they try to get moving. You are expecting a lot of noise and buffeting as it goes through the gears, but it just smoothly and quietly accelerates.
It's actually hilarious sometimes. Traffic light GP, some bloke in an Audi or BMW, you hear them desperately revving and struggling to move, while you sail past them in quiet comfort, propelled by a silent, irresistible force that they can't hope to match.
It's actually hilarious sometimes. Traffic light GP, some bloke in an Audi or BMW, you hear them desperately revving and struggling to move, while you sail past them in quiet comfort, propelled by a silent, irresistible force that they can't hope to match.
aestetix1 said:
It's actually hilarious sometimes. Traffic light GP, some bloke in an Audi or BMW, you hear them desperately revving and struggling to move, while you sail past them in quiet comfort, propelled by a silent, irresistible force that they can't hope to match.
I'm still a child and I never seem to grow up(boys will be boys etc!), so I'd definitely appreciate/enjoy a Tesla(or an equivalent) for the Traffic Light GP I reckon for sure. 
cerb4.5lee said:
aestetix1 said:
It's actually hilarious sometimes. Traffic light GP, some bloke in an Audi or BMW, you hear them desperately revving and struggling to move, while you sail past them in quiet comfort, propelled by a silent, irresistible force that they can't hope to match.
I'm still a child and I never seem to grow up(boys will be boys etc!), so I'd definitely appreciate/enjoy a Tesla(or an equivalent) for the Traffic Light GP I reckon for sure. That and the ability to jump into a tight gap on a busy roundabout. Very useful.
A lot of the perception of speed/acceleration in an ICE car is actually the variation in acceleration rate as the engine torque varies with RPM. If it has a manual gearbox, you get even more of that effect, especially with a less mechanically sympathetic driver.
In an EV you don't get any of that variation, just constant acceleration.
It's the same reason why CVT autos seem slow, though in that case you also get an unpleasant noise from the constant high engine revs if you demand brisk acceleration.
In an EV you don't get any of that variation, just constant acceleration.
It's the same reason why CVT autos seem slow, though in that case you also get an unpleasant noise from the constant high engine revs if you demand brisk acceleration.
SkodaIan said:
A lot of the perception of speed/acceleration in an ICE car is actually the variation in acceleration rate as the engine torque varies with RPM. If it has a manual gearbox, you get even more of that effect, especially with a less mechanically sympathetic driver.
In an EV you don't get any of that variation, just constant acceleration.
It's the same reason why CVT autos seem slow, though in that case you also get an unpleasant noise from the constant high engine revs if you demand brisk acceleration.
What I was saying, expressed nicely.In an EV you don't get any of that variation, just constant acceleration.
It's the same reason why CVT autos seem slow, though in that case you also get an unpleasant noise from the constant high engine revs if you demand brisk acceleration.
Constant acceleration is exactly like the acceleration force due to gravity.
Road cars don't exactly compete with fairground rides or jet fighter aircraft in delivering 'g's'.
People may find electric cars even more dull than IC cars, because there is often little skill involved in actually driving one.
The only interest is your surroundings, other road users etc.
GT9 said:
OutInTheShed said:
Easily and boringly achieved?
If you want your 1g lateral, just lie on your side for a bit.
Without context, 1 or 2 g acceleration is maybe not necessarily exciting?
What a ridiculous point.If you want your 1g lateral, just lie on your side for a bit.
Without context, 1 or 2 g acceleration is maybe not necessarily exciting?
Comparing the force of gravity to lateral acceleration is only valid if you fall out of bed or say jump out of an aeroplane.
You (obviously) don’t feel any acceleration if you are just lying in the bed.
On earth, we are continuously subjected to 1.0g (9.81 m/s^2). Resulting forces are literally normal. I owned a glider rated at +7/-4g. Forces resulting from my body mass being subjected to these high accelerations, were abnormal and presented a challenge.
BTW sustained -4g is much worse than +7g
OutInTheShed makes a good point.
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