Plug In Hybrids
Discussion
For my next company car, I am looking at getting a Plug In Hybrid, for tax efficiency reasons, possibly a Ford Kuga. Current diesel car is very prohibitive tax wise.
Company fuel is 100% paid for by my company, all I have to pay is the fixed fuel benefit tax to HMRC (subject to yearly increases). My company will not pay for any electricity charging costs, so there is no incentive for me to ever charge it (other than environmental) as this would be at my cost, and any savings in petrol costs would not benefit me as my fuel tax bill is fixed irrespective of how much fuel I do or don't use.
I am wondering, does anyone have any experience of, or any knowledge of, running a PHEV car/vehicle solely on petrol and never charging it. I have heard that driving a PHEV with an uncharged battery significantly impairs performance, but don't fully understand why.
Thoughts/advice would be appreciated please.
Thanks
G.
Company fuel is 100% paid for by my company, all I have to pay is the fixed fuel benefit tax to HMRC (subject to yearly increases). My company will not pay for any electricity charging costs, so there is no incentive for me to ever charge it (other than environmental) as this would be at my cost, and any savings in petrol costs would not benefit me as my fuel tax bill is fixed irrespective of how much fuel I do or don't use.
I am wondering, does anyone have any experience of, or any knowledge of, running a PHEV car/vehicle solely on petrol and never charging it. I have heard that driving a PHEV with an uncharged battery significantly impairs performance, but don't fully understand why.
Thoughts/advice would be appreciated please.
Thanks
G.
gsr121 said:
For my next company car, I am looking at getting a Plug In Hybrid, for tax efficiency reasons, possibly a Ford Kuga. Current diesel car is very prohibitive tax wise.
Company fuel is 100% paid for by my company, all I have to pay is the fixed fuel benefit tax to HMRC (subject to yearly increases). My company will not pay for any electricity charging costs, so there is no incentive for me to ever charge it (other than environmental) as this would be at my cost, and any savings in petrol costs would not benefit me as my fuel tax bill is fixed irrespective of how much fuel I do or don't use.
I am wondering, does anyone have any experience of, or any knowledge of, running a PHEV car/vehicle solely on petrol and never charging it. I have heard that driving a PHEV with an uncharged battery significantly impairs performance, but don't fully understand why.
Thoughts/advice would be appreciated please.
Thanks
G.
It charges as you drive, so it’ll never get completely discharged unless you drive just on electric. And why wouldn’t you? Silent, smooth, free.Company fuel is 100% paid for by my company, all I have to pay is the fixed fuel benefit tax to HMRC (subject to yearly increases). My company will not pay for any electricity charging costs, so there is no incentive for me to ever charge it (other than environmental) as this would be at my cost, and any savings in petrol costs would not benefit me as my fuel tax bill is fixed irrespective of how much fuel I do or don't use.
I am wondering, does anyone have any experience of, or any knowledge of, running a PHEV car/vehicle solely on petrol and never charging it. I have heard that driving a PHEV with an uncharged battery significantly impairs performance, but don't fully understand why.
Thoughts/advice would be appreciated please.
Thanks
G.
Years ago I ran an Outlander PHEV as a company car.
I always charged it when I could (my fuel was not paid for).
On occasions when I was unable to charge or was on a long journey so the battery became depleted the car ran fine, it would top up the battery around town and act like a non plug in hybrid. However this meant it didn’t run in EV mode (just used to add in a bit of EV power to top up the ICE when accelerating) and it was a lot heavier than a non plug in hybrid due to the larger battery size. The car was much more pleasant to drive when the battery had some charge, it also gave superb MPG in cities when the battery had some charge - the mpg was dire when the battery was depleted.
If you are not going to charge it then you lose the benefits of an PHEV (except lowish BIK) and get all the drawbacks (weight being the main one).
I always charged it when I could (my fuel was not paid for).
On occasions when I was unable to charge or was on a long journey so the battery became depleted the car ran fine, it would top up the battery around town and act like a non plug in hybrid. However this meant it didn’t run in EV mode (just used to add in a bit of EV power to top up the ICE when accelerating) and it was a lot heavier than a non plug in hybrid due to the larger battery size. The car was much more pleasant to drive when the battery had some charge, it also gave superb MPG in cities when the battery had some charge - the mpg was dire when the battery was depleted.
If you are not going to charge it then you lose the benefits of an PHEV (except lowish BIK) and get all the drawbacks (weight being the main one).
Scrump said:
Years ago I ran an Outlander PHEV as a company car.
I always charged it when I could (my fuel was not paid for).
On occasions when I was unable to charge or was on a long journey so the battery became depleted the car ran fine, it would top up the battery around town and act like a non plug in hybrid. However this meant it didn’t run in EV mode (just used to add in a bit of EV power to top up the ICE when accelerating) and it was a lot heavier than a non plug in hybrid due to the larger battery size. The car was much more pleasant to drive when the battery had some charge, it also gave superb MPG in cities when the battery had some charge - the mpg was dire when the battery was depleted.
If you are not going to charge it then you lose the benefits of an PHEV (except lowish BIK) and get all the drawbacks (weight being the main one).
Thanks Scrump, you have described exactly what I have heard about not charging them.I always charged it when I could (my fuel was not paid for).
On occasions when I was unable to charge or was on a long journey so the battery became depleted the car ran fine, it would top up the battery around town and act like a non plug in hybrid. However this meant it didn’t run in EV mode (just used to add in a bit of EV power to top up the ICE when accelerating) and it was a lot heavier than a non plug in hybrid due to the larger battery size. The car was much more pleasant to drive when the battery had some charge, it also gave superb MPG in cities when the battery had some charge - the mpg was dire when the battery was depleted.
If you are not going to charge it then you lose the benefits of an PHEV (except lowish BIK) and get all the drawbacks (weight being the main one).
andy43 said:
It charges as you drive, so it’ll never get completely discharged unless you drive just on electric. And why wouldn’t you? Silent, smooth, free.
PHEVs never go down to 0% battery. They always have a certain level of minimum battery level and it charges (amount of recouperation varies from car to car) as you brake. raspy said:
PHEVs never go down to 0% battery. They always have a certain level of minimum battery level and it charges (amount of recouperation varies from car to car) as you brake.
I did manage to get my outlander PHEV into turtle mode on the motorway due to an extended high speed run. (I realise that is not actually 0% battery but was effectively 0% useable)gsr121 said:
For my next company car, I am looking at getting a Plug In Hybrid, for tax efficiency reasons, possibly a Ford Kuga. Current diesel car is very prohibitive tax wise.
Company fuel is 100% paid for by my company, all I have to pay is the fixed fuel benefit tax to HMRC (subject to yearly increases). My company will not pay for any electricity charging costs, so there is no incentive for me to ever charge it (other than environmental) as this would be at my cost, and any savings in petrol costs would not benefit me as my fuel tax bill is fixed irrespective of how much fuel I do or don't use.
I am wondering, does anyone have any experience of, or any knowledge of, running a PHEV car/vehicle solely on petrol and never charging it. I have heard that driving a PHEV with an uncharged battery significantly impairs performance, but don't fully understand why.
Thoughts/advice would be appreciated please.
Thanks
G.
I reckon more than half of the company cars in my company are used just so, and that is with a free charger installation and a fixed monthly payment to cover electricity costs.Company fuel is 100% paid for by my company, all I have to pay is the fixed fuel benefit tax to HMRC (subject to yearly increases). My company will not pay for any electricity charging costs, so there is no incentive for me to ever charge it (other than environmental) as this would be at my cost, and any savings in petrol costs would not benefit me as my fuel tax bill is fixed irrespective of how much fuel I do or don't use.
I am wondering, does anyone have any experience of, or any knowledge of, running a PHEV car/vehicle solely on petrol and never charging it. I have heard that driving a PHEV with an uncharged battery significantly impairs performance, but don't fully understand why.
Thoughts/advice would be appreciated please.
Thanks
G.
Until the system catches up with a better way to allow for this I feel it will long continue.
Thanks for the responses.
Follow up question if I may - if I start a week with a full charge, and I’m doing around 750 miles a week, a mixture of motorway and town driving, am I likely to have to recharge every day, or will engine recharging keep the battery topped up.
Just trying to get an idea of how much I would have to charge it, so I can understand the cost.
Follow up question if I may - if I start a week with a full charge, and I’m doing around 750 miles a week, a mixture of motorway and town driving, am I likely to have to recharge every day, or will engine recharging keep the battery topped up.
Just trying to get an idea of how much I would have to charge it, so I can understand the cost.
gsr121 said:
Thanks for the responses.
Follow up question if I may - if I start a week with a full charge, and I’m doing around 750 miles a week, a mixture of motorway and town driving, am I likely to have to recharge every day, or will engine recharging keep the battery topped up.
Just trying to get an idea of how much I would have to charge it, so I can understand the cost.
Well, surely you're better to charge each day (night) so you can do as many electric miles as possible. Electricity is the cheaper fuel - even now all energy is expensive.Follow up question if I may - if I start a week with a full charge, and I’m doing around 750 miles a week, a mixture of motorway and town driving, am I likely to have to recharge every day, or will engine recharging keep the battery topped up.
Just trying to get an idea of how much I would have to charge it, so I can understand the cost.
Get a reduced rate overnight tariff and keep it topped up if you're doing that many miles.
gsr121 said:
Thanks for the responses.
Follow up question if I may - if I start a week with a full charge, and I’m doing around 750 miles a week, a mixture of motorway and town driving, am I likely to have to recharge every day, or will engine recharging keep the battery topped up.
Just trying to get an idea of how much I would have to charge it, so I can understand the cost.
Driving the wife’s Passat GTE down to Devon (~250 miles) will usually result in arriving in the town we stay in with around 3-5 miles of electric range left. That’s leaving the car in “hybrid” mode. Obviously if I used “battery hold” from the off, or switched to “charge” mode on the motorway, I could get there will a mostly charged battery.Follow up question if I may - if I start a week with a full charge, and I’m doing around 750 miles a week, a mixture of motorway and town driving, am I likely to have to recharge every day, or will engine recharging keep the battery topped up.
Just trying to get an idea of how much I would have to charge it, so I can understand the cost.
In short it completely depends on your driving style and what mode you have the vehicle in.
We charge the car nightly when we are at home, and 90% of trips are completed on electricity only.
gsr121 said:
Thanks for the responses.
Follow up question if I may - if I start a week with a full charge, and I’m doing around 750 miles a week, a mixture of motorway and town driving, am I likely to have to recharge every day, or will engine recharging keep the battery topped up.
Just trying to get an idea of how much I would have to charge it, so I can understand the cost.
You said in the first post you weren't going to charge it.Follow up question if I may - if I start a week with a full charge, and I’m doing around 750 miles a week, a mixture of motorway and town driving, am I likely to have to recharge every day, or will engine recharging keep the battery topped up.
Just trying to get an idea of how much I would have to charge it, so I can understand the cost.
If that's how you want to use it, it will be absolutely fine.
There is zero benefit to forcing the engine to charge the battery more so than the car will decide it wants to, it will will maintain a small buffer for boosting acceleration as required, and in likely cases some from of "sport mode" will mean it will charge a bigger buffer for more acceleration boosting.
I bought an Outlander PHEV last October. Aside from the fact as a high spec car it incurs "luxury" vehicle tax as it was over 40K new so tax is 510 per annum.
The batteries weigh 200kg so not a massive amount as it weigh 2 1/4 tons. I use a 13A main charger at home when I can, known amongst the EV people as a granny charger. It takes 10kWh & roughly 4-5 hours to charge from empty. It depends on outside air temp, battery temp etc.
This gives between 12-22miles range on pure battery.
The battery is only charged from the engine is when the charge button is pressed, otherwise it won't. There is also a Save button which "saves" the battery for when you need it. So slow around town driving in EV mode, on faster A roads & motorways you press save so you run purely on petrol.
My driving is a mix of local 10-12 miles to from town (all on electric) or long runs, Portsmouth this week.
I managed to choose a hotel in Portsmouth with free 7kW charging. So recharged at the Hotel. So trip to nearby customer was all on EV mode.
Overall I am getting high 30is MPG which for a 2L 2+ Ton 4 x 4 is good in my view.
The batteries weigh 200kg so not a massive amount as it weigh 2 1/4 tons. I use a 13A main charger at home when I can, known amongst the EV people as a granny charger. It takes 10kWh & roughly 4-5 hours to charge from empty. It depends on outside air temp, battery temp etc.
This gives between 12-22miles range on pure battery.
The battery is only charged from the engine is when the charge button is pressed, otherwise it won't. There is also a Save button which "saves" the battery for when you need it. So slow around town driving in EV mode, on faster A roads & motorways you press save so you run purely on petrol.
My driving is a mix of local 10-12 miles to from town (all on electric) or long runs, Portsmouth this week.
I managed to choose a hotel in Portsmouth with free 7kW charging. So recharged at the Hotel. So trip to nearby customer was all on EV mode.
Overall I am getting high 30is MPG which for a 2L 2+ Ton 4 x 4 is good in my view.
I run a Kuga PHEV as a company car. My rationale for choosing it, in part, was how I’m reimbursed for business mileage. I pay for all of my fuel (business and personal) and get reimbursed for business mileage at the HMRC agreed fuel rates.
As the engine is a 2.5 petrol, the current reimbursement rate is 25p/mile. In my situation, the better the economy I can get out of it, the more I benefit. I therefore do charge at home overnight (7.5p/kWh), at work and when parked at Tesco.
My average economy over 18,000 miles has been 115mpg. For me, long runs start with a full charge, but still end up the right side of 60mpg.
You may be aware that when the model was first released, there were some issues with battery fires and many owners had to avoid charging until the HV/traction batteries had been replaced. Lots of comments on relevant forums of people still averaging >50 mpg, even with no charging.
When I’ve used up the battery on mine, it’s surprising how much regenerative energy is captured and how much distance can be covered with the engine having shut off.
As the engine is a 2.5 petrol, the current reimbursement rate is 25p/mile. In my situation, the better the economy I can get out of it, the more I benefit. I therefore do charge at home overnight (7.5p/kWh), at work and when parked at Tesco.
My average economy over 18,000 miles has been 115mpg. For me, long runs start with a full charge, but still end up the right side of 60mpg.
You may be aware that when the model was first released, there were some issues with battery fires and many owners had to avoid charging until the HV/traction batteries had been replaced. Lots of comments on relevant forums of people still averaging >50 mpg, even with no charging.
When I’ve used up the battery on mine, it’s surprising how much regenerative energy is captured and how much distance can be covered with the engine having shut off.
Tractor Driver said:
I run a Kuga PHEV as a company car. My rationale for choosing it, in part, was how I’m reimbursed for business mileage. I pay for all of my fuel (business and personal) and get reimbursed for business mileage at the HMRC agreed fuel rates.
As the engine is a 2.5 petrol, the current reimbursement rate is 25p/mile. In my situation, the better the economy I can get out of it, the more I benefit. I therefore do charge at home overnight (7.5p/kWh), at work and when parked at Tesco.
My average economy over 18,000 miles has been 115mpg. For me, long runs start with a full charge, but still end up the right side of 60mpg.
You may be aware that when the model was first released, there were some issues with battery fires and many owners had to avoid charging until the HV/traction batteries had been replaced. Lots of comments on relevant forums of people still averaging >50 mpg, even with no charging.
When I’ve used up the battery on mine, it’s surprising how much regenerative energy is captured and how much distance can be covered with the engine having shut off.
That’s good feedback. When the battery is fully drained do you notice a significant decrease in performance or driveability? Or do you never let the battery get that far?As the engine is a 2.5 petrol, the current reimbursement rate is 25p/mile. In my situation, the better the economy I can get out of it, the more I benefit. I therefore do charge at home overnight (7.5p/kWh), at work and when parked at Tesco.
My average economy over 18,000 miles has been 115mpg. For me, long runs start with a full charge, but still end up the right side of 60mpg.
You may be aware that when the model was first released, there were some issues with battery fires and many owners had to avoid charging until the HV/traction batteries had been replaced. Lots of comments on relevant forums of people still averaging >50 mpg, even with no charging.
When I’ve used up the battery on mine, it’s surprising how much regenerative energy is captured and how much distance can be covered with the engine having shut off.
A good overview of your situation here, by Rory at Autotrader.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsQORFOUgTY
Basically, to make it worthwhile you need to charge at home or work
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsQORFOUgTY
Basically, to make it worthwhile you need to charge at home or work
raspy said:
andy43 said:
It charges as you drive, so it’ll never get completely discharged unless you drive just on electric. And why wouldn’t you? Silent, smooth, free.
PHEVs never go down to 0% battery. They always have a certain level of minimum battery level and it charges (amount of recouperation varies from car to car) as you brake. raspy said:
andy43 said:
It charges as you drive, so it’ll never get completely discharged unless you drive just on electric. And why wouldn’t you? Silent, smooth, free.
PHEVs never go down to 0% battery. They always have a certain level of minimum battery level and it charges (amount of recouperation varies from car to car) as you brake. gsr121 said:
Thanks for the responses.
Follow up question if I may - if I start a week with a full charge, and I’m doing around 750 miles a week, a mixture of motorway and town driving, am I likely to have to recharge every day, or will engine recharging keep the battery topped up.
Just trying to get an idea of how much I would have to charge it, so I can understand the cost.
Bear in mind, not every PHEV has a mode that enables you to charge the battery from the petrol/diesel engine. Furthermore, if you're going to charge the hybrid battery whilst on the motorway by using the "charge" mode, that's going to use more petrol/diesel. That's such an inefficient way to run a vehicle. Follow up question if I may - if I start a week with a full charge, and I’m doing around 750 miles a week, a mixture of motorway and town driving, am I likely to have to recharge every day, or will engine recharging keep the battery topped up.
Just trying to get an idea of how much I would have to charge it, so I can understand the cost.
BTW - driving that much a week and being on the motorway too, doesn't lend itself to the use case for a PHEV. They suit people who frequently drive somewhere from home that is within range on a full battery (e.g. office), and make the return journey without needing to charge (or they charge up at office, prior to journey home) and occasionally have a longer trip that largely uses the engine.
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