EV Charging: On a council Estate.
Discussion
Milkyway said:
This might come across as bit of a silly question;
My Dad’s house is private property, end terrace on a typical ‘60’s council estate. There is a public footpath past the front & end of his property.
His car is parked in a parking area, which obviously is still council owned.
If he did want to go for an EV, which he has half heartedly spoken about... how would he charge it.
It’s only theoretical... as he tows a caravan.
As discussed with my young Daughter... she says that you would need off road parking to have a charger installed.
Bit of an issue there...& we wouldn’t be the only ones caught out
Posted this in the other (old) thread, this was just installed by the city yesterday in front of my property.My Dad’s house is private property, end terrace on a typical ‘60’s council estate. There is a public footpath past the front & end of his property.
His car is parked in a parking area, which obviously is still council owned.
If he did want to go for an EV, which he has half heartedly spoken about... how would he charge it.
It’s only theoretical... as he tows a caravan.
As discussed with my young Daughter... she says that you would need off road parking to have a charger installed.
Bit of an issue there...& we wouldn’t be the only ones caught out
They won't all need charging at the same time. 25-50kW would be enough to keep most going for a week. That's 4-8 hours of charging per week on a slow 7kW charger per car.
The cables lock at both ends so can't be easily unplugged.
It's possible to run an EV even today just charging at public places like supermarkets/gyms/pubs etc. if your mileage is anything like the national average.
Most people can't afford an EV yet so don't need a charging solution anyway.
New ICE on sale until 2030, new hybrid until 2035, used of both for another 20+ years so a solution for everyone not needed today and why would anyone invest in it when it'll sit idle and go out of date quickly?
The cables lock at both ends so can't be easily unplugged.
It's possible to run an EV even today just charging at public places like supermarkets/gyms/pubs etc. if your mileage is anything like the national average.
Most people can't afford an EV yet so don't need a charging solution anyway.
New ICE on sale until 2030, new hybrid until 2035, used of both for another 20+ years so a solution for everyone not needed today and why would anyone invest in it when it'll sit idle and go out of date quickly?
Milkyway said:
The ‘used’ EV car market will probably be on the rise in a few years time, allowing people to dip their toes in the water.
That's true, but they're still relatively expensive so it's unlikely they're going to start to appear in lower income housing areas in troublesome numbers anytime soon.When the time is right and its actually needed, solutions will appear for charging.
TheDeuce said:
Milkyway said:
The ‘used’ EV car market will probably be on the rise in a few years time, allowing people to dip their toes in the water.
That's true, but they're still relatively expensive so it's unlikely they're going to start to appear in lower income housing areas in troublesome numbers anytime soon.When the time is right and its actually needed, solutions will appear for charging.
Pixelpeep 135 said:
TheDeuce said:
Milkyway said:
The ‘used’ EV car market will probably be on the rise in a few years time, allowing people to dip their toes in the water.
That's true, but they're still relatively expensive so it's unlikely they're going to start to appear in lower income housing areas in troublesome numbers anytime soon.When the time is right and its actually needed, solutions will appear for charging.
A lot of things have been looked at and could be a future solution. The best thing authorities and central government can do for now is to keep abreast of potential solutions so that 'everyone' can charge one way or another, review the benefits of each and start to work towards solutions tailored to each type of area as an when it's actually required.
TheDeuce said:
No one has so far made any serious effort to sort out fair use of street parking, so of course people all have their own ideas which leads to arguments.
Now, the requirement to charge cars will, I expect, force the development of a fair usage policy - regardless of how it's operated, an app is just one example.
No one is capable of sorting out simple parking problems on new build estates, so the idea of an “app” sorting out some uncooperative neighbour is delusional. Now, the requirement to charge cars will, I expect, force the development of a fair usage policy - regardless of how it's operated, an app is just one example.
The fundamental question no one seems to have asked is:
"how many miles a day does he drive"?
If he drives long distances each day then really, he can't yet have an EV without his own place to charge it. However, if his daily mileage is modest and his long (caravan towing) trips aren't that frequent, then simply charging away from home becomes viable.
A basic 50kW fast charger charges at around 200 mph, so a 200 mile weekly average mileage means an hour away from home to charge
"how many miles a day does he drive"?
If he drives long distances each day then really, he can't yet have an EV without his own place to charge it. However, if his daily mileage is modest and his long (caravan towing) trips aren't that frequent, then simply charging away from home becomes viable.
A basic 50kW fast charger charges at around 200 mph, so a 200 mile weekly average mileage means an hour away from home to charge
This is a tricky issue that will need to be addressed in many areas.
Where I live, the parking is separated from the houses by a busy pavement and a council green. I have a couple of times run a long extension lead across to charge up the 12V battery on one of my cars, when I was too lazy to take the battery out of the car - but I wouldn't fancy using this as my main EV charging method.
I just checked online and my council specifically asks people not to charge using cables across the footway, even with cable ramps... naturally the council claims to be doing everything it can to promote installation of more charging points across the borough.
Of course, Max Torque's point is right in general.
Where I live, the parking is separated from the houses by a busy pavement and a council green. I have a couple of times run a long extension lead across to charge up the 12V battery on one of my cars, when I was too lazy to take the battery out of the car - but I wouldn't fancy using this as my main EV charging method.
I just checked online and my council specifically asks people not to charge using cables across the footway, even with cable ramps... naturally the council claims to be doing everything it can to promote installation of more charging points across the borough.
Of course, Max Torque's point is right in general.
On street charging needs some kind of local/national government push if they want people to switch to EV's. For example in NL if you buy an EV and don't have off street parking you register it with the local council so they can try and roll out charge points at a similar rate to the requirement. They're putting in posts with 2 space like this
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1143333,4.2877902,...
I can see there potentially being a problem at some point when EV takeup is so high ICE drivers won't be able to find spaces they can park in. On the street in the link above they've now put in another post but so far only the space where the S-Type is parked is EV only, presumably the in front will be at some point, however for now someone's taken to parking thier EV in the bay in front of the S-Type to charge, meaning he's occupying a space anyone can use but leaving a space only EV's can use.
https://www.google.com/maps/@52.1143333,4.2877902,...
I can see there potentially being a problem at some point when EV takeup is so high ICE drivers won't be able to find spaces they can park in. On the street in the link above they've now put in another post but so far only the space where the S-Type is parked is EV only, presumably the in front will be at some point, however for now someone's taken to parking thier EV in the bay in front of the S-Type to charge, meaning he's occupying a space anyone can use but leaving a space only EV's can use.
The ‘Ol Man’ doesn’t really tour as such now... goes to his site about fifty miles away then just stays there.
I think that he will be giving up his caravan next year, so IF he did decide to go EV, then it would just be at the smaller end of the market.
He has talked to the family about it... but we don’t think that he will.
( BUT THERE AGAIN..)
I think that he will be giving up his caravan next year, so IF he did decide to go EV, then it would just be at the smaller end of the market.
He has talked to the family about it... but we don’t think that he will.
( BUT THERE AGAIN..)
Edited by Milkyway on Tuesday 28th June 14:42
rxe said:
TheDeuce said:
No one has so far made any serious effort to sort out fair use of street parking, so of course people all have their own ideas which leads to arguments.
Now, the requirement to charge cars will, I expect, force the development of a fair usage policy - regardless of how it's operated, an app is just one example.
No one is capable of sorting out simple parking problems on new build estates, so the idea of an “app” sorting out some uncooperative neighbour is delusional. Now, the requirement to charge cars will, I expect, force the development of a fair usage policy - regardless of how it's operated, an app is just one example.
rxe said:
No one is capable of sorting out simple parking problems on new build estates, so the idea of an “app” sorting out some uncooperative neighbour is delusional.
People will be 'cooperative' when it's made expensive for them not to be.Installing kerbside chargers will be much more economic when there's higher demand.
But people might have to get used to the idea that using public parking space isn't free.
There's also a lot of odd bits of land not heavily utilised, which could be made into parking and charging areas.
There's also a lot of cars not used very much, we could get by with fewer cars.
Milkyway said:
The ‘Ol Man’ doesn’t really tour as such now... goes to his site about fifty miles away then just stays there.
I think that he will be giving up his caravan next year, so IF he did decide to go EV, then it would just be at the smaller end of the market.
He has talked to the family about it... but we don’t think that he will.
( BUT THERE AGAIN...)
So, a city/runaround type EV then. He could probably find a public charger nearby and just plug in for a short time each week and the small battery would be full. If he's lucky a local supermarket might have a free charger too. Google maps is all you need to research local chargers and check cost and availability, take a look. It would only take about 30 mins to fully charge so and 50kw or faster charger near a some shops or a cafe and job done.I think that he will be giving up his caravan next year, so IF he did decide to go EV, then it would just be at the smaller end of the market.
He has talked to the family about it... but we don’t think that he will.
( BUT THERE AGAIN...)
Edited by Milkyway on Tuesday 28th June 14:36
Milkyway said:
The ‘Ol Man’ doesn’t really tour as such now... goes to his site about fifty miles away then just stays there.
I think that he will be giving up his caravan next year, so IF he did decide to go EV, then it would just be at the smaller end of the market.
He has talked to the family about it... but we don’t think that he will.
( BUT THERE AGAIN...)
He's fortunate to have access to informed advice because dealers don't appear to be offering much in the way of charging info - or some just don't take it onboard.I think that he will be giving up his caravan next year, so IF he did decide to go EV, then it would just be at the smaller end of the market.
He has talked to the family about it... but we don’t think that he will.
( BUT THERE AGAIN...)
Edited by Milkyway on Tuesday 28th June 14:36
My neighbour was in a fluster because the dealer hadn't provided him with the right cable to fully charge his Niro in 60 mins at home. Equally disappointed that he'd plugged into a 43kW AC charger and it barely did anything while he was shopping. Took some explaining that the charger in the car was limited to a much lower output. "Rubbish, the charger is the bit you plug into". Correct, but you're looking at the wrong end!
He'd actually gone in to complain that they hadn't supplied a ccs cable!
OutInTheShed said:
rxe said:
No one is capable of sorting out simple parking problems on new build estates, so the idea of an “app” sorting out some uncooperative neighbour is delusional.
People will be 'cooperative' when it's made expensive for them not to be.Installing kerbside chargers will be much more economic when there's higher demand.
But people might have to get used to the idea that using public parking space isn't free.
There's also a lot of odd bits of land not heavily utilised, which could be made into parking and charging areas.
There's also a lot of cars not used very much, we could get by with fewer cars.
Anyone desperate for a charge that is passing by a residents only vacant charger can have an hour at a very high per kWh rate if they so choose.
The example above is a very basic way it could work. I expect that in reality we'll end up with some form of online reservation system too, in addition to first come first served when it's not booked.
Still not as convenient and carefree as having your own off street parking, but there are endless ways in which high density houses aren't as convenient and relaxed to live in as a 4 bed detached with a large driveway in the suburbs. In the end, you get what you pay for/can afford - this is just another example of that fact.
Edited by TheDeuce on Tuesday 28th June 15:57
rxe said:
There isn’t a final solution, it’s going to be utter chaos in places with restricted parking and charging. I’ve seen the first example in the last week near me in London with two EV drivers having a screaming match at each other. Clearly one had parked on a lamp post charger, and the car was charged. The other wanted charge, but the first car had nowhere else to park, so wouldn’t move.
This is going to require a level of co-operation that has eluded the human race over the last few thousand years.
I have seen something similar, but the incumbent owner refused to move, despite there being other less attractive spaces further away from the complex entrance.This is going to require a level of co-operation that has eluded the human race over the last few thousand years.
When every space is EV capable, I would guess things will calm down.
With regard to the OP, I think we need to wait until the government proposals to allow safe roadside or off-road parking for all. They clearly have some issues to work out as many housing estates aren’t set up for it.
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