MAGIC EV UNICORN?

[off_again]

Sterillium said:

That's really useful - thank you - I hadn't even thought about how my "petrol station habits" would convert into "charging habits".

I would be doing a 60-mile each-way commute, but with no chance of charging until I was home, so I was imagining I'd stick it on charge every night if you see what I mean - hence seeing the 24hr+ charge times on AT as an issue.

No idea on budget, because the reason I'm thinking about it purely comes from a chat where our CEO floated the idea of providing me with an EV as an alternative to letting me buy all my fuel on the company credit card. I'd never looked at EVs before.

That would work - say a 200 mile range (pretty much everything does 200 miles) and you will be burning through 120 of that. Lets assume you get a Kona EV (previous model, the new one is out now) which is 258 miles range and pretty normal charge rates.

That means you should be able to charge 0-100% in 60 hours at L1 and 0-100% in 10 hours at L2 - BUT, L1 doesnt really exist in the UK (does here in the US and it pissed me off that charging takes so much longer!). You most likely have 240v and 32a and thats L2 so you are looking at 0-100% in 10 hours.

Its hard to predict exactly what the charge times are because they vary across the current percentage (depleted batteries charge faster than nearly charged ones). But with a Kona EV you will need to charge around 54% each day to get to 100%. That means you will need to charge for around 5-6 hours each day. Not the 12 hours+ that some say.

However, I wouldnt charge each day - charging to 100% isnt a great idea to do it each and every day. Just charge to 80% and enjoy the longer lasting battery! Plus 30% - 80% charge will be faster anyway, so probably less than the 5-6 hours needed. Hey presto - easy. Unless you spend less than 5-6 hours at home each night, I think you have it covered.

Sold, Kona EV for that man over there....

;-)

P.S. Picked the Kona because its cheap, reliable and the Koreans do good EV's at the moment - dont have to spend a fortune on something with a massive range.

[andburg]

off_again said:

Sterillium said:

That's really useful - thank you - I hadn't even thought about how my "petrol station habits" would convert into "charging habits".

I would be doing a 60-mile each-way commute, but with no chance of charging until I was home, so I was imagining I'd stick it on charge every night if you see what I mean - hence seeing the 24hr+ charge times on AT as an issue.

No idea on budget, because the reason I'm thinking about it purely comes from a chat where our CEO floated the idea of providing me with an EV as an alternative to letting me buy all my fuel on the company credit card. I'd never looked at EVs before.

That would work - say a 200 mile range (pretty much everything does 200 miles) and you will be burning through 120 of that. Lets assume you get a Kona EV (previous model, the new one is out now) which is 258 miles range and pretty normal charge rates.

That means you should be able to charge 0-100% in 60 hours at L1 and 0-100% in 10 hours at L2 - BUT, L1 doesnt really exist in the UK (does here in the US and it pissed me off that charging takes so much longer!). You most likely have 240v and 32a and thats L2 so you are looking at 0-100% in 10 hours.

Its hard to predict exactly what the charge times are because they vary across the current percentage (depleted batteries charge faster than nearly charged ones). But with a Kona EV you will need to charge around 54% each day to get to 100%. That means you will need to charge for around 5-6 hours each day. Not the 12 hours+ that some say.

However, I wouldnt charge each day - charging to 100% isnt a great idea to do it each and every day. Just charge to 80% and enjoy the longer lasting battery! Plus 30% - 80% charge will be faster anyway, so probably less than the 5-6 hours needed. Hey presto - easy. Unless you spend less than 5-6 hours at home each night, I think you have it covered.

Sold, Kona EV for that man over there....

;-)

P.S. Picked the Kona because its cheap, reliable and the Koreans do good EV's at the moment - dont have to spend a fortune on something with a massive range.

Business hate people with fully expensed fuel cards right now and employees with them are laughing.

If you have one then I'd suggest if you go the EV route you push for them to provide you with a home 7kw point and business charging card for one of the networks something like instavolt which manage the mcdonalds network so are plentiful.

[Sterillium]

I was also looking at hybrids, but the more I look, the less suitable they seem - especially with their confusing mpg stats.

[plfrench]

Sterillium said:

I was also looking at hybrids, but the more I look, the less suitable they seem - especially with their confusing mpg stats.

As others have said, if you have off street parking and can get a 7kW wall charger installed at home, then with your use case of 120 miles per day commute, an EV would be perfect. Really wouldn't bother with a hybrid.

To help think about charging times, I always find it useful to think of charging rates as mph, i.e. miles of range added per hour of charging.

Most EVs will be getting 3-4 miles per kWh average at this time of year, so at 6.2 kW (what my Podpoint seems to come out at), you're looking at circa 18-25 mph.

In the winter this might be down to 2-3 m/kWh, so 12-18mph range added.

Worst case, you'd be looking at 10 hours to add your daily commute mileage back into the vehicle. Plug in by 8pm and you'll be ready for 6am

[Sterillium]

plfrench said:

Worst case, you'd be looking at 10 hours to add your daily commute mileage back into the vehicle. Plug in by 8pm and you'll be ready for 6am

This would work, I’m usually out at 6am and home by 7pm ish…

[FWIW]

Sterillium said:

This would work, I’m usually out at 6am and home by 7pm ish…

Get an easier job!

[FWIW]

off_again said:

That would work - say a 200 mile range (pretty much everything does 200 miles) and you will be burning through 120 of that. Lets assume you get a Kona EV (previous model, the new one is out now) which is 258 miles range and pretty normal charge rates.

That means you should be able to charge 0-100% in 60 hours at L1 and 0-100% in 10 hours at L2 - BUT, L1 doesnt really exist in the UK (does here in the US and it pissed me off that charging takes so much longer!). You most likely have 240v and 32a and thats L2 so you are looking at 0-100% in 10 hours.

Its hard to predict exactly what the charge times are because they vary across the current percentage (depleted batteries charge faster than nearly charged ones). But with a Kona EV you will need to charge around 54% each day to get to 100%. That means you will need to charge for around 5-6 hours each day. Not the 12 hours+ that some say.

However, I wouldnt charge each day - charging to 100% isnt a great idea to do it each and every day. Just charge to 80% and enjoy the longer lasting battery! Plus 30% - 80% charge will be faster anyway, so probably less than the 5-6 hours needed. Hey presto - easy. Unless you spend less than 5-6 hours at home each night, I think you have it covered.

Sold, Kona EV for that man over there....

;-)

P.S. Picked the Kona because its cheap, reliable and the Koreans do good EV's at the moment - dont have to spend a fortune on something with a massive range.

Some posters are a little blinkered in their responses. It’s absolutely fine to charge an LFP battery to 100% and leave it there (eg. TM3SR+)

[ashenfie]

Moonpie21 said:

charltjr said:

There are about a billion variables, but here's a Corsa-e



That data is from on.to, but they say they lift it from pod point, so here's a link to the source

https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles

Edited by charltjr on Tuesday 12th July 13:31

Sort of related... the pod-point information contains a statistic "Electric cost/mile", not knowing how they calculate that, but assuming it is the same across the board can that be viewed as how efficient a car is?

If thats the case, it seems the closer to 7p per mile you are doing good and closer to 10p it's style over substance?

A few of particular interest were (all just about 200 - 250mile range):

- Hyundai Ioniq Electric - 5.88p
- Mercedes EQB - 8.52p
- Porsche Taycan - 9.76p
- Audi e-tron 55 - 11.94p

I know there are a load of contributing factors but I was impressed with the EQB a seven seat box (might not be the cost/mile for the 7 seater). Tesla is impressive when you look in context to others (although EQS beats Model S), but that Hyundai... OK I don't think they make it any more, but a decent size 5 seat hatch it's beating teeny tiny city cars.

I suppose it's all a little ridiculous really as 3p over 10,000 miles is another £300 a year in electricity, so the efficiency of a modern electric car is a bit of a daft metric?

I guess the point I am making is you may as well buy the car with the style, range and performance you want as they are all relatively efficient.

The issues with these numbers is that they are virtually meaning beyond A/B comparing. You need to consider the cost of the electricity deal you can get which will vary the cost drastically. If you lucky and can get an EV home deal you cost will be around 7p per kWh or it could be 28p per kWh capped. Further the EV is most likely going to cost more per month than say an ICE and thats not included in these cost per miles figures.

[Maracus]

ashenfie said:

Further the EV is most likely going to cost more per month than say an ICE and thats not included in these cost per miles figures.

Not necessarily as has been pointed out countless times.

One example often quoted being the MINI Cooper SE vs MINI Cooper S petrol. The electric version is cheaper to lease overall and way cheaper to run when comparing like for like.

[tamore]

Maracus said:

ashenfie said:

Further the EV is most likely going to cost more per month than say an ICE and thats not included in these cost per miles figures.

Not necessarily as has been pointed out countless times.

One example often quoted being the MINI Cooper SE vs MINI Cooper S petrol. The electric version is cheaper to lease overall and way cheaper to run when comparing like for like.

that's not what my mate down the pub told me.

[OutInTheShed]

tamore said:

Maracus said:

ashenfie said:

Further the EV is most likely going to cost more per month than say an ICE and thats not included in these cost per miles figures.

Not necessarily as has been pointed out countless times.

One example often quoted being the MINI Cooper SE vs MINI Cooper S petrol. The electric version is cheaper to lease overall and way cheaper to run when comparing like for like.

that's not what my mate down the pub told me.

Carwow shows the two being very similar prices.

[OutInTheShed]

FWIW said:

Some posters are a little blinkered in their responses. It’s absolutely fine to charge an LFP battery to 100% and leave it there (eg. TM3SR+)

Not many cars are LFP anyway.

It's generally accepted that charging any lithium battery to 100% requires a lot more care than charging it to 80%. That's partly because the cells are damaged if overcharged, and it's not trivial to charge every cell 100% without risking overcharging some, more so the faster you charge.

Also, it's generally true that the optimum SOC for storage is not 100%, hence the idea that 'vehicle to grid' can sometimes increase cell life, by discharging to an optimum level.

Also is what the car calls '100%' actually '100% of the total cell capacity' or '100% of a level the software has decided you should use'?

Even lead acid batteries can be charged to more than '100%'.....

[mikeiow]

Others have already mentioned getting your own wall charge-point to plug in. Cost around a grand, and a few types to chose from.

We have a MyEnergy Zappi-2, which works well with our solar panels, but many will be fine, & you should get 7kW 'throughput' to fill up.
Check your master fuse is rated enough (I believe at least 80A is preferred.....but I'm not a sparky!).

We've done over 37k miles in our Kona - brilliant vehicle!
Most get around 4miles per kWh, so an hour on the home charge-point gets around 28miles stored. Easily meets your needs, but most modern EVs will too!
Things like the adaptive cruise are superb, the cooled seats very nice in this weather, etc, etc....

Next thing - if you have a SMETS2 smart meter, get on an "EV-friendly" tariff. If you haven't got one - get it!

We are on Octopus GO, with 4 hours cheap charging overnight - currently still 5p/kWh, although I think that is now 7.5p for new customers. Even on that higher rate, 1 hour costs around 50p, and perhaps gets you over 25miles....tuppence a mile motoring!

Obviously DYOR - we've had our setup 3 years, offers and deals change!

[JonnyVTEC]

FWIW said:

Some posters are a little blinkered in their responses. It’s absolutely fine to charge an LFP battery to 100% and leave it there (eg. TM3SR+)

Some posters are a little blinkered that LFP is common.