Are Electric Cars the biggest con on the planet?

[otolith]

whirlybird said:

For somebody who has provided nearly 49.000 postings,
you have far far too much time on your hands, go hug a tree.!!!!!

So you pulled the assertion out of your arse then.

[Gary C]

GT9 said:

raspy said:

"An EV without an AVAS is around 40dB at a low speed but even with one is only 54dB. When compared to the typical noise of a petrol or diesel car at around 80dB, a 38.8% reduction in noise is to be expected.

When compared to a truck or motorbike at around 93dB, there’s a 53% reduction in sound levels. This suggests some dramatic improvements following a move to EVs.

According to the World Health Organisation, noise is the second most harmful environmental factor to your health after air pollution. The leading contributor to noise pollution in the UK is traffic."

Source: https://www.vehiclecontracts.co.uk/blog/could-evs-...

Whoever wrote the doesn't understand that the decibel scale is logarithmic and not linear.

and also 40db is meaningless as its not an actual measurement of anything, just a ratio.

Needs to be db(A) or db(w) etc to give any actual useful information.

[D4rez]

otolith said:

whirlybird said:

For somebody who has provided nearly 49.000 postings,
you have far far too much time on your hands, go hug a tree.!!!!!

So you pulled the assertion out of your arse then.

Haha, as if it was going to be anything else.

Sources - Dailymail + half wit from the local who’s brother is a mechanic

[whirlybird]

There seems to be a push to convert existing classics into EV, "Planet Friendly transport"
A company in London and I'm sure in many other places can convert said classic for around £30,000 (FFS)
Now how about crunching these numbers !!! take a Mini, a rebuilt A- Series, I guess costs about £3000 + - ?
leaving £27,000 for lovely PETROL, and even at today's rip-off fuel prices would give you approximately 120,000 miles, with no fear of
Range Anxiety,
If anybody actually thinks there saving the planet by buying a huge EV BMW X3, I'm sorry I cant agree. discuss !!!

This is my OP thread, with the words 'the word police' omitted.
Having now run to 7 pages I think my comments were valid, or there wouldn't be so much discussion Job Done !!!

[SWoll]

D4rez said:

otolith said:

whirlybird said:

For somebody who has provided nearly 49.000 postings,
you have far far too much time on your hands, go hug a tree.!!!!!

So you pulled the assertion out of your arse then.

Haha, as if it was going to be anything else.

Sources - Dailymail + half wit from the local who’s brother is a mechanic

The stuff on here is mild. Try a youtube comment section on anything slightly anti EV, the absolute rubbish being touted as fact and getting hundreds of likes is staggering. I can genuinely see EV and charger vandalism becoming a widespread problem as we get closer to 2030, such is growing level of division and emotion on the subject. It's another class war essentially with no-one interested in nuance.

[whirlybird]

otolith said:

Whirlybird.

He’s asserting things which contradict expert opinion, I’d like to see his numbers.

Don't need numbers, it's called common sense.

[Heres Johnny]

Gary C said:

and also 40db is meaningless as its not an actual measurement of anything, just a ratio.

Needs to be db(A) or db(w) etc to give any actual useful information.

Not really, db(A) is just an average measure of db

https://www.hse.gov.uk/noise/advice.htm

That said, the idea that a car is the same as a tractor cab is clearly farcical

[otolith]

whirlybird said:

otolith said:

Whirlybird.

He’s asserting things which contradict expert opinion, I’d like to see his numbers.

Don't need numbers, it's called common sense.

AKA prejudice and wishful thinking.

[98elise]

whirlybird said:

otolith said:

Whirlybird.

He’s asserting things which contradict expert opinion, I’d like to see his numbers.

Don't need numbers, it's called common sense.

Opinion isn't common sense.

If you're going to troll please try harder. The last one at least proclaimed himself to be one of the best engineers on PH, and amazed us with his "knowledge".

[SWoll]

whirlybird said:

Don't need numbers, it's called common sense.

Welcome to 2022, where feelings count for more than facts.

We're doomed..

[GT9]

whirlybird said:

otolith said:

Whirlybird.

He’s asserting things which contradict expert opinion, I’d like to see his numbers.

For somebody who has provided nearly 49.000 postings,
you have far far too much time on your hands, go hug a tree.!!!!!

You've asked others to provide numbers yet you have none of your own. What exactly is your assertion based on then?

Maybe have a look at this study: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

Summary:

An EV in the UK is already 65% lower on lifetime footprint than an ICE.
By 2030 this is expected to reach 76% lower.
By 2050 the reduction in footprint could extend to 81%.

Five times lower by 2050, how much more conclusive do you want than that?

Despite your assertions that the crux of the issue is the production of 'new stuff' like batteries and cars, it's actually producing and burning liquid fuels that is the crux of the issue.

Every single time you stop to fill up you're buying 'new stuff' as far as the planet is concerned, but because you've spread it over the whole year, this allows you to conveniently overlook that fact.

For the average mileage, if you add it up, it comes to around 1 ton of fuel per year, maybe 15 tons over the life of a car.

[whirlybird]

GT9,
now the report you suggested reading was supplied by Riccardo,
One of my selection off current vehicles is a 1935 Austin 7, so it's a 87 years old, daily driver, carries 4 average adults at 45mph ( ideal for town driving) and returns 40 mpg, and has a competition Riccardo cylinder head. How much more eco friendly can I get ???
But the V8 Vantage I'm planning on getting next month may well ruin all the eco credentials the Austin has banked so far, oh well *hit happens.

[TooLateForAName]

raspy said:

"An EV without an AVAS is around 40dB at a low speed but even with one is only 54dB. When compared to the typical noise of a petrol or diesel car at around 80dB, a 38.8% reduction in noise is to be expected.

Is that not someone who doesn't understand dB?

[jm8403]

TooLateForAName said:

Is that not someone who doesn't understand dB?

You're right. They clearly do not understand dB

[Discombobulate]

whirlybird said:

GT9,
now the report you suggested reading was supplied by Riccardo,
One of my selection off current vehicles is a 1935 Austin 7, so it's a 87 years old, daily driver, carries 4 average adults at 45mph ( ideal for town driving) and returns 40 mpg, and has a competition Riccardo cylinder head. How much more eco friendly can I get ???
But the V8 Vantage I'm planning on getting next month may well ruin all the eco credentials the Austin has banked so far, oh well *hit happens.

Well if you want to drive an old crate like an Austin 7 - and 4 up - then go for it. It is indeed very environmentally friendly.

I want a bit more from my cars.

On a brighter note, if you get excited by a Riccardo head on a 7 - and the extra 3 bhp it gives you - then you are going to love the Vantage

[DMZ]

SWoll said:

The stuff on here is mild. Try a youtube comment section on anything slightly anti EV, the absolute rubbish being touted as fact and getting hundreds of likes is staggering. I can genuinely see EV and charger vandalism becoming a widespread problem as we get closer to 2030, such is growing level of division and emotion on the subject. It's another class war essentially with no-one interested in nuance.

I suspect it might be the other way around tbh. Eco people will go after petrol and diesel cars, just like they are now. Even if I think governments will get fed up with ICE once EVs take over, then it'll be something wrong with EVs that need taxing. I wouldn't be surprised if the CO2 rating for a car will move from emissions to manufacture and will be taxed accordingly.

[SWoll]

DMZ said:

SWoll said:

The stuff on here is mild. Try a youtube comment section on anything slightly anti EV, the absolute rubbish being touted as fact and getting hundreds of likes is staggering. I can genuinely see EV and charger vandalism becoming a widespread problem as we get closer to 2030, such is growing level of division and emotion on the subject. It's another class war essentially with no-one interested in nuance.

I suspect it might be the other way around tbh. Eco people will go after petrol and diesel cars, just like they are now. Even if I think governments will get fed up with ICE once EVs take over, then it'll be something wrong with EVs that need taxing. I wouldn't be surprised if the CO2 rating for a car will move from emissions to manufacture and will be taxed accordingly.

The eco loons are a tiny minority. The anti-ev group are far larger and particularly angry from what I'm seeing.

When we enevitably enter a recession and people have even less money this winter I get the feeling it's going to get interesting. It's govenment policy that has caused the issue with huge tax incentives for Ev's and the net zero push, but as people are unable to do anything about that they'll inevitably take out their frustrations on the end user.

EV drivers are being painted in the media as a group of virtue signalling, smug, middle class eco warriors, whereas in most cases they're just people who have chosen a vehicle according to a financial decision IME, and most are company cars.

[whirlybird]

Discombobulate.
As a wordsmith & domiciled in the Cotswolds I may suggest that in the last couple of weeks your world
would have been greatly enhanced by the 1000+ Austin 7s that flocked to Moreton in the Marsh for the models 100th anniversary Rally.
A car built in 1922 and still giving reliable service and no doubt pleasure to the spectator waiting at the local Tesco Charging point in there EV
X3 BMW thats' "run out of juice". Or a trip to Prescott where Austin 7's "threw" themselves, against the force of gravity, (invented by one Sir Isaac Newton many years ago) was a site to behold !!!. Only time will tell, but I bet in 100 years, not even Tesla will be holding Anniversary Rallys,Time does not always equal progress, in the mid 70's I could travel to New York in 3 hours, not any more !!!.

[Fastlane]

SWoll said:

The eco loons are a tiny minority. The anti-ev group are far larger and particularly angry from what I'm seeing.

When we enevitably enter a recession and people have even less money this winter I get the feeling it's going to get interesting. It's govenment policy that has caused the issue with huge tax incentives for Ev's and the net zero push, but as people are unable to do anything about that they'll inevitably take out their frustrations on the end user.

EV drivers are being painted in the media as a group of virtue signalling, smug, middle class eco warriors, whereas in most cases they're just people who have chosen a vehicle according to a financial decision IME, and most are company cars.

Just adding to that, the anti-ev people on here actually seem to be mainly anti EV-owners, I can only assume because of the way owners are being portrayed by certain media outlets.

The irony of course is that the vast majority of EV drivers on here also own an ICE, so are highly unlikely to fit the virtue-signalling stereotype.

The EV incentives in theory make sense because EVs are expensive and to create an affordable second hand market of EVs someone has to buy them in the first place and suffer the depreciation (or not as is the case now).

[s1962a]

Once EV batteries start failing and are replaced, there will most likely be a secondary market refurbishing the cells in the battery packs for house/solar purposes, probably with new technologies to manage these 'old' cells.