Are Electric Cars the biggest con on the planet?
Discussion
Soupdragon65 said:
Just borrowed my wife’s Mini Countryman (2019) to take stuff to the recycling depot 
Good God ICE vehicles, even modern ones with DCT, are s
t aren’t they?
I had forgotten how jerky and unpleasant to drive they are compared to the silky smooth drive of an EV.
Depends what you are looking for. If you want the easiest way to get from A to B, an EV (as long as it fits the use case) is a good option. We have had a string of Mini’s over the years and they are great fun, some of the time. They are rough riding, noisy, rattle like a bucket of bolts (well the earlier supercharged models) and arent actually that fast. But they are fun and different - depends what you are looking for.Good God ICE vehicles, even modern ones with DCT, are s
t aren’t they?I had forgotten how jerky and unpleasant to drive they are compared to the silky smooth drive of an EV.
off_again said:
Depends what you are looking for. If you want the easiest way to get from A to B, an EV (as long as it fits the use case) is a good option. We have had a string of Mini’s over the years and they are great fun, some of the time. They are rough riding, noisy, rattle like a bucket of bolts (well the earlier supercharged models) and arent actually that fast. But they are fun and different - depends what you are looking for.
You do have the option of the Mini Electric of course.TopGear said:
The Mini Electric is a very complete little EV. It preserves pretty much everything we like about a standard Mini Cooper S, but it’s more accelerative where it matters, and has zero local emissions. It proves that the hot hatch will have a future as an EV. And it reinforces something we learned with the VW e-Golf – that an electric car doesn’t have to be wantonly radical to be a success. Stuffing a car we already know and like with battery cells can, with the correct execution, be a good tactic.
However, the Mini asks you to understand a few home truths. BMW could have given it more range. But, that would have made it heavier, more expensive, taken longer to charge, and invade cabin space. So, it’s studied a lot of Mini owner data, sussed out the average Cooper S travels 26 miles a day, or around 180 miles a week, and moulded the Mini Electric’s performance to suit that brief, needing only a couple of recharges to slip into the average Mini audience’s life unnoticed.
However, the Mini asks you to understand a few home truths. BMW could have given it more range. But, that would have made it heavier, more expensive, taken longer to charge, and invade cabin space. So, it’s studied a lot of Mini owner data, sussed out the average Cooper S travels 26 miles a day, or around 180 miles a week, and moulded the Mini Electric’s performance to suit that brief, needing only a couple of recharges to slip into the average Mini audience’s life unnoticed.
SpeckledJim said:
I’d love to know if Dyson still thinks he made the right call taking such a huge loss killing his project.
I think he was sitting down in Asia seeing just how cheaply China could churn out millions of EVs while seeing how it was becoming less and less possible for European manufacturing to compete and realised his window for profit was going to be pretty short lived. I also suspect that what was always at the back of his mind was the brand problem. He owned a world famous brand that could command huge premiums but few people, maybe including him, thought the brand could transition to something like a car.
Personally, I suspected that the core Dyson product demographic that the car was to be aimed at wouldn't want to trade their German brand for a brand generally linked to zero to minimum wage domestic labour? The automotive equivalent of opting not to name your children Charlotte and Henry but Smeg and Neff?
Or, he just woke up one morning realised he was hugely successful, hugely wealthy and at an age where he simply couldn't give enough of a crap about designing and building something that wasn't a plastic tube with a fan in it?
It could be that the manufacturing side of it is not the differentiator. It seems likely if EVs are easy to make, which they are supposedly. I don’t think drivetrain is a differentiator either. Who cares what that is doing in an EV?
So take the Foxconn platform and wrap it in some expensive materials and call it a Bentley and hope that somebody will pay 100% more for that than the VW equivalent. Which they may well do.
So take the Foxconn platform and wrap it in some expensive materials and call it a Bentley and hope that somebody will pay 100% more for that than the VW equivalent. Which they may well do.
DMZ said:
It could be that the manufacturing side of it is not the differentiator. It seems likely if EVs are easy to make, which they are supposedly. I don’t think drivetrain is a differentiator either. Who cares what that is doing in an EV?
So take the Foxconn platform and wrap it in some expensive materials and call it a Bentley and hope that somebody will pay 100% more for that than the VW equivalent. Which they may well do.
Isn’t that what Bentley currently do? They’re BMW’s with a fancy body and interior aren’t they? So take the Foxconn platform and wrap it in some expensive materials and call it a Bentley and hope that somebody will pay 100% more for that than the VW equivalent. Which they may well do.
SpeckledJim said:
Discombobulate said:
silent ninja said:
Interesting piece. SEAT has been neglected by VW for years, and the silence on EVs is deafening: SEAT have zero EVs in the pipeline let alone in the market today. This might be the final nail?
I had a SEAT Ateca which was a brilliant mid sized SUV - drove 'sporty' for an SUV, very practical with good boot and enough space for 3 in the back, good DSG gearbox and general comfort. Really surprised VW are likely canning the brand
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/seat/359870/seat-cou...
The Born?I had a SEAT Ateca which was a brilliant mid sized SUV - drove 'sporty' for an SUV, very practical with good boot and enough space for 3 in the back, good DSG gearbox and general comfort. Really surprised VW are likely canning the brand
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/seat/359870/seat-cou...
Edited for correct years.
The e-UP was available much earlier.Edited by sixor8 on Saturday 25th March 09:41
DonkeyApple said:
SpeckledJim said:
I’d love to know if Dyson still thinks he made the right call taking such a huge loss killing his project.
I think he was sitting down in Asia seeing just how cheaply China could churn out millions of EVs while seeing how it was becoming less and less possible for European manufacturing to compete and realised his window for profit was going to be pretty short lived. I also suspect that what was always at the back of his mind was the brand problem. He owned a world famous brand that could command huge premiums but few people, maybe including him, thought the brand could transition to something like a car.
Personally, I suspected that the core Dyson product demographic that the car was to be aimed at wouldn't want to trade their German brand for a brand generally linked to zero to minimum wage domestic labour? The automotive equivalent of opting not to name your children Charlotte and Henry but Smeg and Neff?
Or, he just woke up one morning realised he was hugely successful, hugely wealthy and at an age where he simply couldn't give enough of a crap about designing and building something that wasn't a plastic tube with a fan in it?
Soupdragon65 said:
Isn’t that what Bentley currently do? They’re BMW’s with a fancy body and interior aren’t they?
Why do you think I used them as an example? Instead of taking a Passat, take some generic platform and bling it up. Tbf they started with a V12 so it was more than a blinged up Passat but it’s most definitely a proven example. I guess it’s not a given that it will translate to EVs but you’d imagine highly personalised coach building will be a thing. Sort of a Singer-ification of EVs. At least there is some differentiation. Other than which tech pack comes as standard or is optional.
SWoll said:
SteveKTMer said:
It's hard enough now to differentiate current brands, but once they're all BEV, all look the same ugly, humpy shape that seems to sell, what's going to be the difference between Seat, Skoda and VW ?
Styling, interior, price, options, suspension setup, drivetrain calibration?I see very little difference to what the VAG group were doing pre BEV TBH.
SteveKTMer said:
I agree, but with them all becoming BEV they will all blend into the same homogeneous blobs at different price points.
Haven't generic 4 pot transport boxes been this for years though? 21st century boggo ICE all conform to the same set of regulatory standards so are all pretty much the same and just differentiated by badge, trim or some generic cross brand styling cues. Pretty much every car sold today is a box being powered by a generic 4 pot engine via a ZF8 auto box that is programmed to keep that engine at a constant rpm to deliver a mandated maximum amount of emission gases etc.
Migrating to EV may in time change that a little as manufacturers won't have those emission regs that they all have to comply to so can try to differentiate by more than just badge and monthlies. The EV drivetrain could also allow for a break away from traditional styling that was defined by the need to fit an engine above the wheels at one end of the vehicle.
DMZ said:
Why do you think I used them as an example? Instead of taking a Passat, take some generic platform and bling it up.
Tbf they started with a V12 so it was more than a blinged up Passat but it’s most definitely a proven example. I guess it’s not a given that it will translate to EVs but you’d imagine highly personalised coach building will be a thing. Sort of a Singer-ification of EVs. At least there is some differentiation. Other than which tech pack comes as standard or is optional.
They need to be careful they don’t “Vertu” themselves. Remember those? Nokias in a blinged up case that they charged thousands for, bundled with their BS concierge service as the supposed differentiator, aka a south Asian call center. Aimed right at the black credit card crowd.Tbf they started with a V12 so it was more than a blinged up Passat but it’s most definitely a proven example. I guess it’s not a given that it will translate to EVs but you’d imagine highly personalised coach building will be a thing. Sort of a Singer-ification of EVs. At least there is some differentiation. Other than which tech pack comes as standard or is optional.
98elise said:
Why do you need to charge from an extension lead? You aren't tied into your homes electricity supply.
Charge it where you park it, or pop into a fast charge station.
I'll stick to my V8's thanks there's a Mustang 5.0GT Darkhorse with 500hp coming next year and when the Range Rover sport needs to go i'll be going for the 4.4 DieselCharge it where you park it, or pop into a fast charge station.
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