Slump in EV sales on it's way?
Discussion
NMNeil said:
It may have escaped your notice but since last month all new cars sold automatically come with a black box as part of the ISA system.
I know the speed limiter part hasn't been approved in the UK yet, just in the EU, but I believe the data recorder is already being used.
The digital lobbyists have done a great job.I know the speed limiter part hasn't been approved in the UK yet, just in the EU, but I believe the data recorder is already being used.
Ultimately the digital push is about greater power and control for Government and "approved" third parties.
NMNeil said:
It may have escaped your notice but since last month all new cars sold automatically come with a black box as part of the ISA system.
I know the speed limiter part hasn't been approved in the UK yet, just in the EU, but I believe the data recorder is already being used.
Isnt that coming to us next year with the double tap to disable it. TBH when i see some of the A-B drivers, 40 everywhere brigade etc. it kinda makes sense even if it is going to be a kill joy to the enthusiasts (who buy new cars)I know the speed limiter part hasn't been approved in the UK yet, just in the EU, but I believe the data recorder is already being used.
lemmingjames said:
NMNeil said:
It may have escaped your notice but since last month all new cars sold automatically come with a black box as part of the ISA system.
I know the speed limiter part hasn't been approved in the UK yet, just in the EU, but I believe the data recorder is already being used.
Isnt that coming to us next year with the double tap to disable it. TBH when i see some of the A-B drivers, 40 everywhere brigade etc. it kinda makes sense even if it is going to be a kill joy to the enthusiasts (who buy new cars)I know the speed limiter part hasn't been approved in the UK yet, just in the EU, but I believe the data recorder is already being used.
TheDeuce said:
lemmingjames said:
NMNeil said:
It may have escaped your notice but since last month all new cars sold automatically come with a black box as part of the ISA system.
I know the speed limiter part hasn't been approved in the UK yet, just in the EU, but I believe the data recorder is already being used.
Isnt that coming to us next year with the double tap to disable it. TBH when i see some of the A-B drivers, 40 everywhere brigade etc. it kinda makes sense even if it is going to be a kill joy to the enthusiasts (who buy new cars)I know the speed limiter part hasn't been approved in the UK yet, just in the EU, but I believe the data recorder is already being used.
i also meant the 0% road tax comes to an end in 2024 for non-business owners, not sure how it works for business and bik etc
ashenfie said:
Realistically thats not going to happen, We already talking about reducing all these taxes with the exception of perhaps inheritance tax, I suspect as some point it will be a black box fitted to new cars.
It may have escaped your notice but since last month all new cars sold automatically come with a black box as part of the ISA system.I know the speed limiter part hasn't been approved in the UK yet, just in the EU, but I believe the data recorder is already being used.
NMNeil said:
ashenfie said:
Realistically thats not going to happen, We already talking about reducing all these taxes with the exception of perhaps inheritance tax, I suspect as some point it will be a black box fitted to new cars.
It may have escaped your notice but since last month all new cars sold automatically come with a black box as part of the ISA system.I know the speed limiter part hasn't been approved in the UK yet, just in the EU, but I believe the data recorder is already being used.
Text from the manufacturer's website:
The EDR only records data when a non-trivial collision situation occurs. The EDR does not record any data during normal driving conditions.
TheRainMaker said:
NMNeil said:
ashenfie said:
Realistically thats not going to happen, We already talking about reducing all these taxes with the exception of perhaps inheritance tax, I suspect as some point it will be a black box fitted to new cars.
It may have escaped your notice but since last month all new cars sold automatically come with a black box as part of the ISA system.I know the speed limiter part hasn't been approved in the UK yet, just in the EU, but I believe the data recorder is already being used.
Text from the manufacturer's website:
The EDR only records data when a non-trivial collision situation occurs. The EDR does not record any data during normal driving conditions.
(If it could predict in those 30 seconds an impending crash, it could prevent it, surely)
Pica-Pica said:
TheRainMaker said:
NMNeil said:
ashenfie said:
Realistically thats not going to happen, We already talking about reducing all these taxes with the exception of perhaps inheritance tax, I suspect as some point it will be a black box fitted to new cars.
It may have escaped your notice but since last month all new cars sold automatically come with a black box as part of the ISA system.I know the speed limiter part hasn't been approved in the UK yet, just in the EU, but I believe the data recorder is already being used.
Text from the manufacturer's website:
The EDR only records data when a non-trivial collision situation occurs. The EDR does not record any data during normal driving conditions.
(If it could predict in those 30 seconds an impending crash, it could prevent it, surely)
Europa Jon said:
Yes OP, the slump is coming. Soon EV makers and drivers will see the error of their ways and beg the gullible public to take them for little or no money whatsoever. What kind of morons are those losers?
Some strange folk on PH. There’s seemingly no softening whatsoever on EV prices despite petrol prices dropping and the lead times on new EV’s point to where the market is just now. I personally think the hybrid market could come under pressure in time, but things are too unstable to make a sensible prediction just now. I’ve only recently started visiting this section of PH (and it’s been extremely useful, underlining the value of this forum), but I am struck by those people who are intent on undermining EV with implausible and irrational points based on nothing more than personal prejudice. This place is the home of the chip.
Blue62 said:
Europa Jon said:
Yes OP, the slump is coming. Soon EV makers and drivers will see the error of their ways and beg the gullible public to take them for little or no money whatsoever. What kind of morons are those losers?
Some strange folk on PH. There’s seemingly no softening whatsoever on EV prices despite petrol prices dropping and the lead times on new EV’s point to where the market is just now. I personally think the hybrid market could come under pressure in time, but things are too unstable to make a sensible prediction just now. I’ve only recently started visiting this section of PH (and it’s been extremely useful, underlining the value of this forum), but I am struck by those people who are intent on undermining EV with implausible and irrational points based on nothing more than personal prejudice. This place is the home of the chip.
To be fair a forum called 'piston heads' was always going to make for a tough sell of cars that lack pistons. I actually think the general attitude even on PH shows interest and desire for new tech though. It's actually a fantastic time to be a car fan in general imo.
The Salary Sacrifice leasing part makes me think that as a company we will stick to what we normally do.
Purchase for the best price we can, just using hire purchase finance to spread the cost over 2-3 years, own the asset and keep it for 6-7 years and pay to maintain it, not letting the leasing middle man get a sizeable profit.
Will have to look into whether we can administer the salary sacrifice part ourselves, although it looks like it only suits higher earners.
Purchase for the best price we can, just using hire purchase finance to spread the cost over 2-3 years, own the asset and keep it for 6-7 years and pay to maintain it, not letting the leasing middle man get a sizeable profit.
Will have to look into whether we can administer the salary sacrifice part ourselves, although it looks like it only suits higher earners.
TheDeuce said:
This corner of PH was worse a couple of years ago - and now some of the naysayers have an EV!
To be fair a forum called 'piston heads' was always going to make for a tough sell of cars that lack pistons. I actually think the general attitude even on PH shows interest and desire for new tech though. It's actually a fantastic time to be a car fan in general imo.
I think it has gone full circle with some of the fanboys talking about ditching the EV and buying an M3, lol.To be fair a forum called 'piston heads' was always going to make for a tough sell of cars that lack pistons. I actually think the general attitude even on PH shows interest and desire for new tech though. It's actually a fantastic time to be a car fan in general imo.
Which doesn't surprise me as we're now past the early adopter phase where the new tech was all exciting and the market has arrived at a set of very similar products. I'm personally fairly jaded when it comes to EVs, probably for this reason.
DMZ said:
I think it has gone full circle with some of the fanboys talking about ditching the EV and buying an M3, lol.
Which doesn't surprise me as we're now past the early adopter phase where the new tech was all exciting and the market has arrived at a set of very similar products. I'm personally fairly jaded when it comes to EVs, probably for this reason.
I have no skin in the game, I don't own an EV, infact I have never even driven one. I love the idea of the tech, the performance and the fact that they are so quiet but there appear to be several issues that nobody really talks about. Which doesn't surprise me as we're now past the early adopter phase where the new tech was all exciting and the market has arrived at a set of very similar products. I'm personally fairly jaded when it comes to EVs, probably for this reason.
1)The cost of electricity. Now obviously this has only really become a major issue in the last six months or so, but before this people who had never owned one assumed they were almost free to run.
2)The range. especially in winter. When I read stories of people wearing gloves, a massive coat and having a travel blanket on their knees to extend the range in winter you know something is seriously wrong.
3)Range anxiety. I currently drive a diesel and even with a quarter of a tank of fuel remaining it will still easily do 200 miles. I cannot get my head around the fact that once fully charged that is the entire range of my car.
4)Public charging infrastructure. Whenever I watch a YouTube video on someone driving an EV for the first time recharging at a public charging point always seems to be a stressful nightmare due to the following.
Massive queues of people waiting to charge
Once you get to the charging point it is out of order, or just won't recognise the car
You don't have an actual account with that particular charging network
5)Having to carefully work out where to charge your car. We recently went to Wales for the weekend, a 400 mile round trip. I filled with diesel at the start of the trip, didn't have to think about it again and still have half a tank remaining. If I had an EV I would need to have planned with military precision where we were going to recharge, this was not possible where we were staying, infact I don't recall seeing a single charge point in the whole town.
They must be fantastic if you can charge at home and you never travel that far, but once you have to rely on public charging it all seems to get stressful.
Puzzles said:
You should be able to get 300miles from a model 3 and the charging is painless imo. There are still some cheap overnight tariffs but I do understand your point.
I think it’s a mindset, plus a degree of ignorance. EV is a new era and will continue to change and evolve at pace. I have an EV on order, it will be my first and I’ve done a reasonable amount of research. The charging network is much improved, it’s far from perfect but it’s simply not the case that journeys have to be planned ‘with military precision’, maybe that was the case a few years ago but not now. Additionally Tesla are opening up by their charging network to non Tesla cars, which will have a significant impact.
I fully accept that EV is not for everyone, in my case the vast majority of my driving is local and I estimate that in an average month I will charge from home twice. Most of my longer trips are within the cars total range, longer journeys will require a charge but the car I’m dropping into can charge to 80% in 20 mins, so while it’s not quite so convenient it’s hardly a major issue. I estimate I will save @£200 per month on fuel and significantly more on tax and servicing.
My personal view is that people are looking at EV from the wrong starting point, in the 1950’s cars were unreliable and petrol stations small in number and not 24/7. Add to that the fact that many of the naysayers thinking is muddled and behind the curve.
Blue62 said:
I fully accept that EV is not for everyone, in my case the vast majority of my driving is local and I estimate that in an average month I will charge from home twice. Most of my longer trips are within the cars total range, longer journeys will require a charge but the car I’m dropping into can charge to 80% in 20 mins, so while it’s not quite so convenient it’s hardly a major issue. I estimate I will save @£200 per month on fuel and significantly more on tax and servicing.
I often see this '20 minutes to 80%' thing - from what state of charge, at what charging rate, and what car?https://leccy.net/vehicles/charging?manufacturer=a...
It says here an E-tron charging at 150kW, can charge to 80% in 20 minutes... from a 60% charge.
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