Slump in EV sales on it's way?

[Blue62]

NDNDNDND said:

I often see this '20 minutes to 80%' thing - from what state of charge, at what charging rate, and what car?

https://leccy.net/vehicles/charging?manufacturer=a...

It says here an E-tron charging at 150kW, can charge to 80% in 20 minutes... from a 60% charge.

The Taycan apparently charges from 25-80% in 20 mins at 170kwh (from memory), it charges at a higher kw than most. AIUI the lower your starting point the quicker the car charges in relative terms, but acknowledge that there’s a lot of conflicting information out there. Before making my decision I talked to 3 owners, one a near neighbour and two I accosted on the street! There experiences were broadly similar and assuaged must of my concerns, added to which Porsche have just announced a software upgrade which improves range and charge rate, apparently!

I reckon that I will need to charge away from home no more than a dozen times per year, so for me the gains appear to outweigh any hassle, but we will see. I also have trips planned to Northern Spain and Ireland, from all accounts Spain will be a doddle but I’m not so sure about west of Ireland, may bottle it and take the wife’s!

[TheDeuce]

I've got one of the slowest charging EV's apparently, but I only charge away from home a handful of times each year too - and typically only need to add 100 miles tops. The rest is done as I sleep so I don't care how long it takes really.

It would make no appreciable difference to me if I swapped to one of the fastest charging EV's, other than I doubt I'd like the actual car as much as my current one!

EV reviews obsess over charge times and range but it's such a none issue for most owners. It's like deciding what hot hatch to buy and obsessing over the difference between 40.3mpg Vs 38.7mpg. In most cases it wouldn't be a factor even worth discussing but apparently it is when it's an EV!? I understand why it has to be for frequent long range drivers, but not for the majority.

[Blue62]

TheDeuce said:

I've got one of the slowest charging EV's apparently, but I only charge away from home a handful of times each year too - and typically only need to add 100 miles tops. The rest is done as I sleep so I don't care how long it takes really.

It would make no appreciable difference to me if I swapped to one of the fastest charging EV's, other than I doubt I'd like the actual car as much as my current one!

EV reviews obsess over charge times and range but it's such a none issue for most owners. It's like deciding what hot hatch to buy and obsessing over the difference between 40.3mpg Vs 38.7mpg. In most cases it wouldn't be a factor even worth discussing but apparently it is when it's an EV!? I understand why it has to be for frequent long range drivers, but not for the majority.

I can only really speak from my own experience, but I have had it in my head for the last few years that the public charging network is a nightmare and on that basis the only viable option would be a Tesla.

It’s clear to me now that for 90% of the time I will be able to charge at home, it’s also clear that the charging network is much improved (I believe Tesla will be open to all soon as well) to the point where I can consider any model I fancy. If I was doing 20k a year then it would be a different story, but it would benefit some posters to do some basic research before making inaccurate and out of date remarks.

[DMZ]

Yeah I think EVs and chargers have largely gotten to a stage where they work pretty well. This is not a differentiator for me. I’m interested in how cars drive and what they look like and this is where it’s not so good in most cases.

[Blue62]

DMZ said:

Yeah I think EVs and chargers have largely gotten to a stage where they work pretty well. This is not a differentiator for me. I’m interested in how cars drive and what they look like and this is where it’s not so good in most cases.

I get that, though I think most EV’s look pretty cool. I have a couple of nice petrol cars, so a fall back but happily admit I’m fortunate. What has struck me over the last few years of driving fast cars is that the fun is draining away, whether it’s congestion, poor surfaces or getting old I don’t know, but the magic is going a wee bit. I’ve also noticed a slight increase in adverse comments and reaction when out and about in my sports car, could be me but if that’s a trend then I’d rather not be a target.

[TheDeuce]

Blue62 said:

TheDeuce said:

I've got one of the slowest charging EV's apparently, but I only charge away from home a handful of times each year too - and typically only need to add 100 miles tops. The rest is done as I sleep so I don't care how long it takes really.

It would make no appreciable difference to me if I swapped to one of the fastest charging EV's, other than I doubt I'd like the actual car as much as my current one!

EV reviews obsess over charge times and range but it's such a none issue for most owners. It's like deciding what hot hatch to buy and obsessing over the difference between 40.3mpg Vs 38.7mpg. In most cases it wouldn't be a factor even worth discussing but apparently it is when it's an EV!? I understand why it has to be for frequent long range drivers, but not for the majority.

I can only really speak from my own experience, but I have had it in my head for the last few years that the public charging network is a nightmare and on that basis the only viable option would be a Tesla.

It’s clear to me now that for 90% of the time I will be able to charge at home, it’s also clear that the charging network is much improved (I believe Tesla will be open to all soon as well) to the point where I can consider any model I fancy. If I was doing 20k a year then it would be a different story, but it would benefit some posters to do some basic research before making inaccurate and out of date remarks.

I don't think the public charging network was every really a 'nightmare'. In the very early days it was a bit of a pain trying to find a charger, and of course if you found a broken one that was particularly irritating if the next one was 60 miles away!! But these days the chargers are very close together just about wherever you go, and the apps are improved to the point you can see if the chargers are available, how many are available, if there are any faults etc. Even if you do happen across a duff charger it's typically just a small hop to another - and it's increasingly rare to find a problematic charger along motorway charging stations these days. The dodgy ones tend to be early 22-50kw units that were installed in hotel/supermarket car parks etc and are poorly maintained, in addition to just not having very reliable hardware to link to their operators systems.

And as you say, the Tesla network is about to open up to all - at that point I don't see how anyone in any EV can really struggle to make a trip from one side to the other of this frankly very tiny island we live on. Perhaps if you spend three days a week travelling the Scottish highlands and then have to get back to London each weekend you'd struggle - but in that instance I'd say get a diesel.. or a better job.

[SWoll]

NDNDNDND said:

I often see this '20 minutes to 80%' thing - from what state of charge, at what charging rate, and what car?

https://leccy.net/vehicles/charging?manufacturer=a...

It says here an E-tron charging at 150kW, can charge to 80% in 20 minutes... from a 60% charge.

Those numbers are garbage. Our etron 55 will charge at 150kW from 20-80%, so with an 83kWh battery that's 50kw required, or 20 minutes of charging. 48 minutes..

[TheRainMaker]

DMZ said:

Yeah I think EVs and chargers have largely gotten to a stage where they work pretty well. This is not a differentiator for me. I’m interested in how cars drive and what they look like and this is where it’s not so good in most cases.

My personal experience from one year of ownership with an EV public charging.

M3 Winchester North, worked but only at 15kW should have been 50kW.
M3 Fleet North, queue waiting, left and got home on sparks.
Hotel in Leatherhead, all four out of service.
Hotel in Castle Combe, 7kW working (Tesla broken).
M4 Membury Services East, one in service the other broken and a queue.
Hotel in Winchester, out of service with a guest's cable stuck in it.
M1 Toddington Services North, working at a good speed, two free.
M6 Rugby Services, 12 chargers, 2 broken, working at a good speed, four free.
M6 Rugby Services, 12 chargers, 3 broken, I took the last space, working at a good speed.

Edited by TheRainMaker on Wednesday 24th August 16:06

[oop north]

Never ceases to amaze me the number of EV drivers who think that because they have never had any problems with finding a working charger, nobody else possibly could. In my experience (about 75k electric miles over about 6.5 years and three EVs- bmw i3, Jaguar iPace and now Volvo c40) it depends where you go.

Live near Preston - trip to Essex coast (700 miles in a weekend) was v easy with rugby services and Braintree Gridserve forecourt used each way. Last trip to Edinburgh (390 miles round trip in one day) needed three hours to charge in total - normally two but added an hour to find a working charger that was available. Had quite a Lot of pain during a week’s holiday near Peebles Scotland - many local chargers didn’t work with the jag at all or worked intermittently, and trip to Aberystwyth (320 miles round trip) with daughter two was ok once but another time v painful. There are virtually no chargers in the Yorkshire dales but getting there and back in a day usually ok

All local trips within 80-100 miles from home are really easy using home charging

[JonnyVTEC]

I’ve just done 215miles to drop sister at Bristol airport drop off point, great test at normal speeds and still 25miles in the battery. I purposely tried to do it none stop such is the faff of hoping for a charger, whilst the risk of sharing the service which absolute morons who charge to 100% and abandon the car. That’s in an IPACE. And I agree the rapid charging issue is such a non issue in reality and I wonder how it may pay dividends for the 4th or 5th owners with packs that haven’t been thrashed…

TheDeuce said:

I don't think the public charging network was every really a 'nightmare'. In the very early days it was a bit of a pain trying to find a charger, and of course if you found a broken one that was particularly irritating if the next one was 60 miles away!!
.

Understatement of the year. You are new to this. Ask the first LEAF drivers

[TheDeuce]

JonnyVTEC said:

I’ve just done 215miles to drop sister at Bristol airport drop off point, great test at normal speeds and still 25miles in the battery. I purposely tried to do it none stop such is the faff of hoping for a charger, whilst the risk of sharing the service which absolute morons who charge to 100% and abandon the car. That’s in an IPACE. And I agree the rapid charging issue is such a non issue in reality and I wonder how it may pay dividends for the 4th or 5th owners with packs that haven’t been thrashed…

TheDeuce said:

I don't think the public charging network was every really a 'nightmare'. In the very early days it was a bit of a pain trying to find a charger, and of course if you found a broken one that was particularly irritating if the next one was 60 miles away!!
.

Understatement of the year. You are new to this. Ask the first LEAF drivers

Well we obviously agree about the iPace not being a huge issue for the average driver - despite being behind the curve when it comes to charge times.

As for first gen LEAF drivers, I think it was just too early and too low range to make any sense. For work I was at a Nissan dealer about ten years ago looking at a Navara and I showed a little interest in the LEAF as it was new and interesting - but it was just far too limited, it shocked me that a £30k car could be that limited as a proposition tbh.

I think anyone that does more than town car driving would be mad to buy an EV that can't do a solid 200 miles range of normal driving, normal = AC or heating on, driving to enjoy it, 80mph on the motorway etc.. In an EV with respectable range I truly don't believe it's that difficult to get across a country as tiny as ours these days.