Slump in EV sales on it's way?
Discussion
w8pmc said:
greggy50 said:
To get 220 miles of a M3 LR you must be driving it pretty hard.
My P2 appears to be the following:
75mph - 31.4kwh/per 100 miles (circa. 240 miles)
90mph - 44kwh per 100 miles (circa. 175miles)
I would add 50 miles onto this for a Tesla so probably 230 miles+ if you sat at 90mph as its more efficient and has a slightly bigger battery (I have seen it will do 310 miles sat at 70mph). Once you add in the slower bits and the start and finish you should be getting 250 even driving well above the speed limit.
I will admit at 100mph I would only get about 140 miles of range in mine and at 120mph it becomes more like 100 miles...
ICE cars are not much different to be honest. On my old 330d the difference in economy between 70mph and 90mph was quite a lot...
I haven't gone into finite analysis of our M3LR's usage costs, but 220 is a fair guess on range we're getting, although we only charge to 95% (unless doing a single long journey) & don't allow to go below 10% so i guess could still be 30-40miles in the battery if went full to empty.My P2 appears to be the following:
75mph - 31.4kwh/per 100 miles (circa. 240 miles)
90mph - 44kwh per 100 miles (circa. 175miles)
I would add 50 miles onto this for a Tesla so probably 230 miles+ if you sat at 90mph as its more efficient and has a slightly bigger battery (I have seen it will do 310 miles sat at 70mph). Once you add in the slower bits and the start and finish you should be getting 250 even driving well above the speed limit.
I will admit at 100mph I would only get about 140 miles of range in mine and at 120mph it becomes more like 100 miles...
ICE cars are not much different to be honest. On my old 330d the difference in economy between 70mph and 90mph was quite a lot...
Edited by greggy50 on Friday 12th August 14:53
Not seen anywhere that any Model 3 Tesla has exceeded 300 miles in normal conditions, perhaps achievable in a test scenario.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/insideevs.com/reviews...
I was getting 180 miles out of the early SR Model 3 and that only had a 54kwh battery where the LR is 80kwh.
chrisk said:
66HFM said:
Aren't a number of Teslas on free charging for life at the Tesla Superchargers or is that just older models?
I think also a lot of people don't think of the cost of charging their car at home, I've got a friend who recently bought an i3 and loves it and is 'free' to run in comparison with her Disco 5....
Our i3S does approx 3.4kw/h, so currently costs 8.2p/mi on the price cap. If electricity does double it will go to 16p/mi which is the same price as fuelling our 3.0TDI Q7 when diesel is £1.50/l... I think it's nearly twice the weight...I think also a lot of people don't think of the cost of charging their car at home, I've got a friend who recently bought an i3 and loves it and is 'free' to run in comparison with her Disco 5....
greggy50 said:
DMZ said:
In my opinion it's largely pointless to take an EV on a longer trip where you have to rely on rapid charging a lot. You get hassle and the savings are marginal. When charging at home, an EV is unbeatable of course.
I would agree, 250 miles of range gets you a long way though so you get your first tank of fuel so to speak very cheap.If you did a long drive i.e. 4 hour each way London to Manchester you would need to top up maybe 50% of your battery at the higher rate. It would still average out a lot less than an ICE car.
I'm still thinking I might take an EV if I can have something like a Volvo XC40 and my wife can use it - would be more than perfect for her use - and I'll use her diesel SUV for long trips - I do now an again already and it'll nudge 50MPG on a run. I may just have to swallow the fuel cost.
Sheepshanks said:
Our company is trying to get us into EVs - I'm the only only one away from the SE and having an EV seems like it might be a bit of a pain to me, I'm usually doing a round trip down south in a day, sometimes with an overnight stop. Last couple of times was overnight at a conference place with no charging and a hotel with one charger that was out of order.
I'm still thinking I might take an EV if I can have something like a Volvo XC40 and my wife can use it - would be more than perfect for her use - and I'll use her diesel SUV for long trips - I do now an again already and it'll nudge 50MPG on a run. I may just have to swallow the fuel cost.
That's how I think I'm going to do it - I had a test drive in an XC40 Recharge which was brilliant, I took it from our head office (Derby) to our Bolton satellite (200 mile round trip) which it managed with 40 miles range remaining. I'll still keep my ICE daily driver and my partner and I will just share both cars between us. Her commute isn't far either and if we want to go away on holiday or the weather gets bad we still have an ICE 4x4 to save any faff. I'm still thinking I might take an EV if I can have something like a Volvo XC40 and my wife can use it - would be more than perfect for her use - and I'll use her diesel SUV for long trips - I do now an again already and it'll nudge 50MPG on a run. I may just have to swallow the fuel cost.
Sheepshanks - test drive an XC40, I did and ordered one, very rapid and a lot of the criticism vague steering, chassis can't handle power, one pedal driving too aggressive are, in my opinion, unfounded.
Shrimpvende - was it a dual or single motor XC40? Quite reassuring as I've read quite a bit about the volvo having a much shorter range than advertised.
Shrimpvende - was it a dual or single motor XC40? Quite reassuring as I've read quite a bit about the volvo having a much shorter range than advertised.
pills said:
Sheepshanks - test drive an XC40, I did and ordered one, very rapid and a lot of the criticism vague steering, chassis can't handle power, one pedal driving too aggressive are, in my opinion, unfounded.
Shrimpvende - was it a dual or single motor XC40? Quite reassuring as I've read quite a bit about the volvo having a much shorter range than advertised.
Dual motor, but if I order it will be the single motor. On paper there's only a few miles range between them so I hope that'll be reflected in the real world!Shrimpvende - was it a dual or single motor XC40? Quite reassuring as I've read quite a bit about the volvo having a much shorter range than advertised.
The Polestar is tempting as it has a higher range, but longer lead time and the business lease deals aren't quite as good.
pills said:
Thanks Shimpvende, hopefully the lead time on the Volvo has come down a bit then, I was told 9 to 12 months!
If you get one through 'care by Volvo' business lease they're showing as 5-6 months currently. The salesman at my local dealer told me this was due to them reserving build slots for subscription customers. pills said:
Thanks Shimpvende, hopefully the lead time on the Volvo has come down a bit then, I was told 9 to 12 months!
If you go on the Polestar 2 thread I have posted the lead times of most modern EVs (according to our recent car list)XC40 is showing as 9 months and the Polestar 8.
The efficiency on the XC40 is not quite as good as a Polestar I am led to believe. I had one as a courtesy car whilst mine was in for a service and it was maybe 5-10% less like for like.
The XC40 is bigger inside however, especially in the front and you get full leather which is nice. Boot wise there didn't appear much in it and the screen in the XC40 is smaller and not as user friendly I found compared to the P2.
I would expect you would get about 230-240 miles out of the Duel Motor in decent weather and maybe 180-200 in bad weather with the heater on in mixed driving as my P2 is 250 - 260 and about 200-220 respectively.
Shrimpvende said:
pills said:
Sheepshanks - test drive an XC40, I did and ordered one, very rapid and a lot of the criticism vague steering, chassis can't handle power, one pedal driving too aggressive are, in my opinion, unfounded.
Shrimpvende - was it a dual or single motor XC40? Quite reassuring as I've read quite a bit about the volvo having a much shorter range than advertised.
Dual motor, but if I order it will be the single motor. On paper there's only a few miles range between them so I hope that'll be reflected in the real world!Shrimpvende - was it a dual or single motor XC40? Quite reassuring as I've read quite a bit about the volvo having a much shorter range than advertised.
The Polestar is tempting as it has a higher range, but longer lead time and the business lease deals aren't quite as good.
We’re off to Cornwall (from the South Coast) in early September. Initially I wanted to take my Merc SL 350 (2005) to give it a really good run. But on a full tank it only manages about 290-300 miles. The last time I filled it up about 4 weeks ago it cost £121. The fuel cost alone for the return journey to Cornwall would be over £200 now that petrol is a little cheaper (still £1.80 around here). In the Volvo, we charge to 100% on cheap overnight rate for about £11. We plan to stop at Exeter Services for a top up maybe 40% which shouldn’t cost more than £20 then we have free charging at the hotel. Same on the way back, so massively cheaper. Even if it cost £100 to recharge the Volvo it’s still way cheaper.
w8pmc said:
I haven't gone into finite analysis of our M3LR's usage costs, but 220 is a fair guess on range we're getting, although we only charge to 95% (unless doing a single long journey) & don't allow to go below 10% so i guess could still be 30-40miles in the battery if went full to empty.
Not seen anywhere that any Model 3 Tesla has exceeded 300 miles in normal conditions, perhaps achievable in a test scenario.
I'm surprised you haven't seen better recently with this weather. I averaged 250 watts per mile the other day over 250 miles on the motorway, running at 85 mph where possible (but slowed by the usual roadworks etc and very few cars passing me). 300 mile range has been very easy recently, with much of my urban driving at sub 250 watts per mile. The only difference from standard is I'm running Crossclimates.Not seen anywhere that any Model 3 Tesla has exceeded 300 miles in normal conditions, perhaps achievable in a test scenario.
delta0 said:
300 is very easy to do in my M3P. Perhaps some of the older M3s will struggle.
You must be in the minority.Those on the (pains me to say it) FB Group seem to share a similar vain that anywhere near Tesla's claimed range, Winter or Summer is the thing of fantasies.
Our's is a Dec 21 so one of the newer models & normal driving does not give anywhere close to a usable range. Could try the usual EV tactic of staying in the slow lane with lorries, but i drive the Tesla like i'd drive any car & clearly that isn't the EV way
MaxFromage said:
I'm surprised you haven't seen better recently with this weather. I averaged 250 watts per mile the other day over 250 miles on the motorway, running at 85 mph where possible (but slowed by the usual roadworks etc and very few cars passing me). 300 mile range has been very easy recently, with much of my urban driving at sub 250 watts per mile. The only difference from standard is I'm running Crossclimates.
As above, this really surprises me.We got our M3LR in December, so i bought into the Winter is worse than Summer argument, but Summer has arrived & i've seen very little difference. Key point i'm guessing is the car has to cool itself for much of the day which no doubt is using a chunk of juice.
Got another long journey in ours this weekend, West Lancs to London & back so i'll try to be more thorough in my testing, but i'd bet my house on not seeing more than 250 mile range compared to the 320 Tesla state.
w8pmc said:
MaxFromage said:
I'm surprised you haven't seen better recently with this weather. I averaged 250 watts per mile the other day over 250 miles on the motorway, running at 85 mph where possible (but slowed by the usual roadworks etc and very few cars passing me). 300 mile range has been very easy recently, with much of my urban driving at sub 250 watts per mile. The only difference from standard is I'm running Crossclimates.
As above, this really surprises me.We got our M3LR in December, so i bought into the Winter is worse than Summer argument, but Summer has arrived & i've seen very little difference. Key point i'm guessing is the car has to cool itself for much of the day which no doubt is using a chunk of juice.
Got another long journey in ours this weekend, West Lancs to London & back so i'll try to be more thorough in my testing, but i'd bet my house on not seeing more than 250 mile range compared to the 320 Tesla state.
It's better to calculate range by looking at energy usage vs usable battery capacity.
Your 250 + 15% and say 15 miles at 0% gets you to 300 pretty much.
HelldogBE said:
chrisk said:
66HFM said:
Aren't a number of Teslas on free charging for life at the Tesla Superchargers or is that just older models?
I think also a lot of people don't think of the cost of charging their car at home, I've got a friend who recently bought an i3 and loves it and is 'free' to run in comparison with her Disco 5....
Our i3S does approx 3.4kw/h, so currently costs 8.2p/mi on the price cap. If electricity does double it will go to 16p/mi which is the same price as fuelling our 3.0TDI Q7 when diesel is £1.50/l... I think it's nearly twice the weight...I think also a lot of people don't think of the cost of charging their car at home, I've got a friend who recently bought an i3 and loves it and is 'free' to run in comparison with her Disco 5....
She is getting upto 70mpg on her commute .. it is far from expensive to run even at today’s prices
I put £65 in it the other day and it has done one return run and has more than enough for another and using it all weekend
Each return trip is costing us about £28 at the current price and as fuel price is falling it will get cheaper, now and then she’ll do the journey in my X3 which costs us about £46-£48
Using the mini it’s much cheaper than using public transport and far quicker, even with the x3 it’s cheaper
I don’t see much benefit in switching to ev for us
w8pmc said:
As above, this really surprises me.
We got our M3LR in December, so i bought into the Winter is worse than Summer argument, but Summer has arrived & i've seen very little difference. Key point i'm guessing is the car has to cool itself for much of the day which no doubt is using a chunk of juice.
Got another long journey in ours this weekend, West Lancs to London & back so i'll try to be more thorough in my testing, but i'd bet my house on not seeing more than 250 mile range compared to the 320 Tesla state.
What does your average consumption show for the life of the car?We got our M3LR in December, so i bought into the Winter is worse than Summer argument, but Summer has arrived & i've seen very little difference. Key point i'm guessing is the car has to cool itself for much of the day which no doubt is using a chunk of juice.
Got another long journey in ours this weekend, West Lancs to London & back so i'll try to be more thorough in my testing, but i'd bet my house on not seeing more than 250 mile range compared to the 320 Tesla state.
page3 said:
At 3.5miles/kwh perhaps manufactures will go back to making efficient EVs and not the bloated SUVs they only seem interested in right now.
Of course, there is more to car choice than fuel costs alone.
This. For the money (I have an iPace) I don't think an ICE equivalent could get close for the combination of speed, refinement and economy it provides as a daily. It's not the sort of car you get up early to drive, but it is brilliant for most of my driving.Of course, there is more to car choice than fuel costs alone.
Its predecessors were a C7RS6 followed by a B9RS4 which cost a similar amount to the iPace to buy, but a small fortune to run and both well behind refinement wise. As for economy.... But they sounded great!
w8pmc said:
Polo costs £50 to fill but will do around 450 miles on that, Wife's Tesla on home charge at today's rates costing around £25 & for that would struggle to get much more than 220 miles, but if using the S/C network it would be close to £35 for a full charge.
.
Sounds like my daughter in law has a different Polo match to your sons?.
Hers is a 45 lt tank and has cost more than £65 to £70 to fill for the last 6 months?
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