Will electricity prices start to kill off EV's?
Discussion
Evanivitch said:
With overnight cheap rates still available, the home-chargers will be fine.
But the public charging infrastructure (with companies not being protected by the price cap) will see prices continue to approach £1/kWh, making charging reliant on public chargers completely uneconomical.
Hmm. The price cap is heading towards £1/kWh (current prediction £1.06) so public more like £2/kWh.But the public charging infrastructure (with companies not being protected by the price cap) will see prices continue to approach £1/kWh, making charging reliant on public chargers completely uneconomical.
Obviously that is peak times.
Tigger2050 said:
The increase in electricity prices will already make many EV's more expensive to 'fill up' than ICE cars and this is for charging at home, goodness knows what it will cost at fast public chargers, when firms catch up with the latest price increases.
https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/energy-price-...
Of course electricity prices will be going up again by about 50% early next year. When that happens there will be a big gap between 'filling up' EV's and ICE cars.
With fairly bog standard unexciting EV's coming in at about £40,000, who will be wanting to buy knowing they will have to pay far more to fuel them?
The average oil pump-jack uses 9 megawatts of power each month to pump the oil out of a well.https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/energy-price-...
Of course electricity prices will be going up again by about 50% early next year. When that happens there will be a big gap between 'filling up' EV's and ICE cars.
With fairly bog standard unexciting EV's coming in at about £40,000, who will be wanting to buy knowing they will have to pay far more to fuel them?
Each year on average US oil refineries buy 42 billion killowatt hours of electricity.
Guess who gets to pay any increase in the price of electricity to pump and refine the oil ?
confused_buyer said:
Hmm. The price cap is heading towards £1/kWh (current prediction £1.06) so public more like £2/kWh.
Obviously that is peak times.
If (or almost inevitably WHEN) the cap reaches 1.06/kWh that EV, with a 64 kWh battery, doing 230 miles per full charge (or 180 miles if mainly motorway) is going to cost £68 for those miles or £136 if charged on the road.Obviously that is peak times.
My ICE car (240 hp) would cost £35 for 230 miles or £28 for 180 miles.
I don't have range anxiety either, doing 650 miles on a tank or 750 miles when touring abroad. No lengthy times refuelling either.
Tigger2050 said:
confused_buyer said:
Hmm. The price cap is heading towards £1/kWh (current prediction £1.06) so public more like £2/kWh.
Obviously that is peak times.
If (or almost inevitably WHEN) the cap reaches 1.06/kWh that EV, with a 64 kWh battery, doing 230 miles per full charge (or 180 miles if mainly motorway) is going to cost £68 for those miles or £136 if charged on the road.Obviously that is peak times.
My ICE car (240 hp) would cost £35 for 230 miles or £28 for 180 miles.
I don't have range anxiety either, doing 650 miles on a tank or 750 miles when touring abroad. No lengthy times refuelling either.
akadk said:
Regulation and taxation will ensure EV’s are the only option for new vehicles from here on it
The cost to charge them will absolutely be the same if not more than petrol
The era of cheap EV motoring was / is 2010-2025
This was my thinking too. Yes, 'cheap' running of an EV was early adoption although prices weren't cheap to actually buy the vehicle so how it works out across the time of ownership I don't know.The cost to charge them will absolutely be the same if not more than petrol
The era of cheap EV motoring was / is 2010-2025
But it was inevitable that running an EV wouldn't remain cheap forever. For a start, it's not sustainable allowing them to be tax free on the roads. Then there will have to be a recoup of lost tax from fuel.
Motoring in general will not be cheap, anyone would think the powers that be are trying to force the general public from owning cars all together!
ITP said:
I though recent legislation means that EV’s now have to be metered at home separate from the standard domestic supply?
This legislation is clearly in place to allow different (obviously higher) costs for ev and home charging. Not much longer will it on the same tariff.
Indeed!This legislation is clearly in place to allow different (obviously higher) costs for ev and home charging. Not much longer will it on the same tariff.
"On 30th June 2022 The Electric Vehicles (Smart Charge Points) Regulations come into force (1). All home installed electric vehicle chargers will be required to be separately metered and send this information to the Smart meter data communications network.
Potentially this legislation allows the electricity used for charging EVs to be charged and taxed at a higher rate than domestic electricity. The technology enacted also enables the rationing of electricity for EV charging because the government can decide when and if an EV can be charged, plus it also allows the EV battery to be drained into the grid if required.
This legislation does not apply to public or rapid charge points, but there is no reason why electricity consumed via these charge points can’t be taxed."
Mouse Rat said:
Two of my colleagues have cancelled orders for EVs because of the rise.
The best renewal rate we had as business is 60pp kwhr.
That's £50 to charge an ipace and get approx 200miles to 250miles.
How many more people will be cancelling when they learn that price will be rising to £85 in the next few months?The best renewal rate we had as business is 60pp kwhr.
That's £50 to charge an ipace and get approx 200miles to 250miles.
Evanivitch said:
With overnight cheap rates still available, the home-chargers will be fine.
But the public charging infrastructure (with companies not being protected by the price cap) will see prices continue to approach £1/kWh, making charging reliant on public chargers completely uneconomical.
No. I have a long-term fixed price electric contract. Using that my fuel costs will be dearer on EV than on ICE. If I sign up to a ‘cheap overnight EV rate’,that will still make my fuel costs cheaper on ICE, that’s before we even talk about public chargers. That is also without the capital costs.But the public charging infrastructure (with companies not being protected by the price cap) will see prices continue to approach £1/kWh, making charging reliant on public chargers completely uneconomical.
Got a friend who has an EV but bought it before he started working from home. So he got the cheaper night time tarrif but now he's working from home it's actually costing him more compared to an ICE.
The only benefit is that in theory it should be getting cheaper again once things go back to normal.
The only benefit is that in theory it should be getting cheaper again once things go back to normal.
Tigger2050 said:
If (or almost inevitably WHEN) the cap reaches 1.06/kWh that EV, with a 64 kWh battery, doing 230 miles per full charge (or 180 miles if mainly motorway) is going to cost £68 for those miles or £136 if charged on the road.
My ICE car (240 hp) would cost £35 for 230 miles or £28 for 180 miles.
I don't have range anxiety either, doing 650 miles on a tank or 750 miles when touring abroad. No lengthy times refuelling either.
My brother was telling me a couple a weeks ago that when he was travelling though France, there was a long queue to use the EV chargers, whilst all the petrol pumps were free to use. I couldn’t be doing with that, electric vehicles are the Betamax to synthetic petrol’s VHS.My ICE car (240 hp) would cost £35 for 230 miles or £28 for 180 miles.
I don't have range anxiety either, doing 650 miles on a tank or 750 miles when touring abroad. No lengthy times refuelling either.
Tigger2050 said:
If (or almost inevitably WHEN) the cap reaches 1.06/kWh that EV, with a 64 kWh battery, doing 230 miles per full charge (or 180 miles if mainly motorway) is going to cost £68 for those miles or £136 if charged on the road.
My ICE car (240 hp) would cost £35 for 230 miles or £28 for 180 miles.
I don't have range anxiety either, doing 650 miles on a tank or 750 miles when touring abroad. No lengthy times refuelling either.
Simply not happening.My ICE car (240 hp) would cost £35 for 230 miles or £28 for 180 miles.
I don't have range anxiety either, doing 650 miles on a tank or 750 miles when touring abroad. No lengthy times refuelling either.
Maybe for NP&E but no ‘normal’ person, household or business can afford that. What will happen in my cynical and not ideal world is the govt will refuse to increase the cap & let the energy co’s go bust.
Then nationalise them one by one and bring it back under control (along with taking first dibs on North Sea gas), rather than £1 per kWh to the end user.
For the record I think this would be a terrible outcome but have been pondering a lot today - happy for alternative scenarios
I'm not sure this will kill off EVs, hopefully it will kill off the current government that has been woefully mismanaging our energy security policies by being over reliant on natural gas to generate electricity. We desperately need to build more renewable generation - wind, solar, tidal and hydro power, backed up with suitable energy storage facilities for when generation exceeds demand that can then be used when demand is high and/or generation is low.
Remember the UK is just one small market among many in the world that still have access to cheap electricity generation as they have competent governments.
In the meantime, I have a PHEV, which means I get the best of both worlds. I have been running a lot on electric this year while petrol prices have been high, meaning my petrol bill in the last year has only been £300-odd in the past year, covering 6000 miles. "Oh what about your electricity costs though" I hear you say, well they have also increased by around £300-odd too. I have saved well over a grand compared to the car it replaced. If electricity gets really costly, I can simply use it as a really efficient petrol car.
Remember the UK is just one small market among many in the world that still have access to cheap electricity generation as they have competent governments.
In the meantime, I have a PHEV, which means I get the best of both worlds. I have been running a lot on electric this year while petrol prices have been high, meaning my petrol bill in the last year has only been £300-odd in the past year, covering 6000 miles. "Oh what about your electricity costs though" I hear you say, well they have also increased by around £300-odd too. I have saved well over a grand compared to the car it replaced. If electricity gets really costly, I can simply use it as a really efficient petrol car.
I’ve enquired about cancelling my EV order today.
It’s a mini electric and we ordered many months ago thinking about £30 / month for the 500 miles we do running kids around, school run, wife’s local work trips etc.
The current increases push that to £100 which is the same price as a tank of diesel which does 600 miles in a bigger car.
I think we will cancel and purchase another 2nd hand Dino juice powered car. The sums don’t stack up anymore after the October rise, let alone what else is to come!!
It’s a mini electric and we ordered many months ago thinking about £30 / month for the 500 miles we do running kids around, school run, wife’s local work trips etc.
The current increases push that to £100 which is the same price as a tank of diesel which does 600 miles in a bigger car.
I think we will cancel and purchase another 2nd hand Dino juice powered car. The sums don’t stack up anymore after the October rise, let alone what else is to come!!
Tigger2050 said:
ChocolateFrog said:
Me too.
It's not difficult to work out and spoiler alert were not there yet.
Why don't you read the link and then tell Which they are lying?It's not difficult to work out and spoiler alert were not there yet.
An incredibly naive statement. Just because a news article is published on a website, it doesn't make it the truth. They could very well be lying, bending the truth or at best misunderstanding the situation. You have to remember, these articles are writen by journalists, not professional experts in their respective field. There has been no peer-review prior to the publishing of this article. I'm not sure where you have been the past 10 or so years, but websites (including Which) often publish attention-grabbing headlines in order to get greater clickthrough, either to increase advertising revenue, or in the case of Which, in the hope that you'll subscribe to a membership for money.
Aluminium said:
I think that the question is not taking in to account that the rise in electricity prices is inextricably linked to the rise in oil prices,
so I not say it would while the alternative to an EV is a petrol or diesel car.
Electricity is not in step with oil prices. Oil has been falling recently and is now cheaper than before the Russians invaded Ukraine.so I not say it would while the alternative to an EV is a petrol or diesel car.
This is about the energy market and demand is exceeding supply, mainly for gas but this impacts all energy sources coal, wood etc. The renewable energy companies are the ones really coining it in, their costs have remained pretty stable but they are selling their energy into the energy market at the current hugely inflated price.
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