A major little word of warning re. EV conversions
Discussion
While I feel quite sorry for people who've gone into something like this in good faith and got caught up in the bureaucracy, it seems fairly obvious to me that an EV conversion should have to go through some kind of IVA. Surely the existing type approval (or whatever the grandfathered-in equivalent for 60s cars might be) no longer applies once you've fundamentally changed the entire drive system. Just to take one example, filling the rear crumple zone - to the extent it exists on a mini - with batteries is quite a major change.
This smells a bit like DVLA bending the existing rules to breaking point to prevent what looks to them like attempts to exploit loopholes to allow potentially unsafe conversions, because the legislation hasn't kept up or been properly designed for the conversion scenario.
This smells a bit like DVLA bending the existing rules to breaking point to prevent what looks to them like attempts to exploit loopholes to allow potentially unsafe conversions, because the legislation hasn't kept up or been properly designed for the conversion scenario.
bitsilly said:
The car did originally have tax and MOT immunity but that too was deleted with the registration.
It was a nice reg too!
This is quite simply bureaucratic idiocy in my opinion.
Agreed. It was a nice reg too!
This is quite simply bureaucratic idiocy in my opinion.
I thought it would still be VED exempt because of its age, as many kit cars are, if enough components suffice it to have the year of manufacture of the donor car. But if DLVA are now considering it as a car requiring an IVA due to the mods, the date of manufacture / registration would become now.
I'd agree an EV conversion should require a safety check of some kind (did Moggy at Vintage Voltage do this?) but by stating it as a 'new' kit car, it loses all its heritage / registration etc.
Edited by sixor8 on Sunday 23 October 12:17
E63eeeeee... said:
While I feel quite sorry for people who've gone into something like this in good faith and got caught up in the bureaucracy, it seems fairly obvious to me that an EV conversion should have to go through some kind of IVA. Surely the existing type approval (or whatever the grandfathered-in equivalent for 60s cars might be) no longer applies once you've fundamentally changed the entire drive system. Just to take one example, filling the rear crumple zone - to the extent it exists on a mini - with batteries is quite a major change.
This smells a bit like DVLA bending the existing rules to breaking point to prevent what looks to them like attempts to exploit loopholes to allow potentially unsafe conversions, because the legislation hasn't kept up or been properly designed for the conversion scenario.
Actually I retained mini driveshafts, but yes I agree. I have started a petition to ask DVLA to do precisely that, sort out some proper new specific rules for this kind of thing, and stop twisting old rules, then applying them over zealously. The EV industry want the same thing so they can assess and move on.This smells a bit like DVLA bending the existing rules to breaking point to prevent what looks to them like attempts to exploit loopholes to allow potentially unsafe conversions, because the legislation hasn't kept up or been properly designed for the conversion scenario.
E63eeeeee... said:
While I feel quite sorry for people who've gone into something like this in good faith and got caught up in the bureaucracy, it seems fairly obvious to me that an EV conversion should have to go through some kind of IVA. Surely the existing type approval (or whatever the grandfathered-in equivalent for 60s cars might be) no longer applies once you've fundamentally changed the entire drive system. Just to take one example, filling the rear crumple zone - to the extent it exists on a mini - with batteries is quite a major change.
This smells a bit like DVLA bending the existing rules to breaking point to prevent what looks to them like attempts to exploit loopholes to allow potentially unsafe conversions, because the legislation hasn't kept up or been properly designed for the conversion scenario.
Yep - look at the trouble Boeing have got themselves into with doing the equivalent with an aircraft (B737 is an early 60's design, they slapped new engines on it, and whoops, the MAX) Wonder if there is also the view that an original classic will be used for high days and holidays (and carefully) only, whereas an EV conversion could be a daily driver. This summer the Austin 7 meet up was near me, and while it was wonderful to see them all on the roads, you really wouldn't want to be in a crash in one of themThis smells a bit like DVLA bending the existing rules to breaking point to prevent what looks to them like attempts to exploit loopholes to allow potentially unsafe conversions, because the legislation hasn't kept up or been properly designed for the conversion scenario.
bitsilly said:
Has anyone any idea how I can let the Classic car folk know about this issue?
Every time I say something on those threads the moderator deletes it as he says I have a bee in my bonnet.
I have tried to say Classic car EV conversions is more relevant to them than EV drivers in general to no avail.
I wonder how long before this is deleted!
Anyway, thanks for you attention folks, it is appreciated.
You have already started a thread on this subject in the Classic Cars forum here. No need for any more.Every time I say something on those threads the moderator deletes it as he says I have a bee in my bonnet.
I have tried to say Classic car EV conversions is more relevant to them than EV drivers in general to no avail.
I wonder how long before this is deleted!
Anyway, thanks for you attention folks, it is appreciated.
robemcdonald said:
Slightly off topic, but I wonder if this will effect project binky?
What about when people add lightening holes? Like that 911 that the owner got down to 700 kg?
There are many,many projects and cars already on the road, that will have no chance of being legal under the points system as it currently stands. Some through ignorance, some through the belief it won’t affect them. Right up until it bites you in the arse.What about when people add lightening holes? Like that 911 that the owner got down to 700 kg?
E63eeeeee... said:
While I feel quite sorry for people who've gone into something like this in good faith and got caught up in the bureaucracy, it seems fairly obvious to me that an EV conversion should have to go through some kind of IVA. Surely the existing type approval (or whatever the grandfathered-in equivalent for 60s cars might be) no longer applies once you've fundamentally changed the entire drive system. Just to take one example, filling the rear crumple zone - to the extent it exists on a mini - with batteries is quite a major change.
This smells a bit like DVLA bending the existing rules to breaking point to prevent what looks to them like attempts to exploit loopholes to allow potentially unsafe conversions, because the legislation hasn't kept up or been properly designed for the conversion scenario.
This is fair comment, although even then the DVLA are a long way behind what is relevant. I was involved in an EV conversion of a relatively modern vehicle a couple of years back and to avoid modifying the shell in any way (including drilling holes or welding bits) we used various original holes in the shell, some of which were sealed with bonded plates, to route the various gubbins. To the DVLA this was completely acceptable and didn't count as modifying the shell as these holes are present in a brand new shell as delivered from the OEM - however they couldn't give a crap about all the stress calcs we had done or FEA to show that the battery mounting system was sufficent to resist the G force present in a significant accident, they had nothing on their list about that and it is one of the largest safety critical aspects of converting a vehicle to EV drivetrain. This smells a bit like DVLA bending the existing rules to breaking point to prevent what looks to them like attempts to exploit loopholes to allow potentially unsafe conversions, because the legislation hasn't kept up or been properly designed for the conversion scenario.
On the flip side there is also the argument that any rally car with an internally routed fuel line/battery cable with holes drilled in the bulkhead to suit should be IVA'd and Q plated.... but of course many aren't and it would be insane to insist this.
I really feel for the OP here, it's a s**t situation all round and the DVLA should be issuing guidance on building safe and viable EV conversions for classics with an E-IVA to test accordingly. There isn't anything stopping the OP IVA'ing it but then of course it will be judged to IVA standards, some of which on a car of that age may result in bits needing to be changed and it doesn't get him his reg, MOT exemption etc. back either
Bloody hell OP this sounds like a nightmare, I hope you manage to get it sorted eventually.
Made me think of this!
https://youtu.be/r92int4KKZk
Made me think of this!
https://youtu.be/r92int4KKZk
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