A major little word of warning re. EV conversions
Discussion
Oilchange said:
A classic mini would have none of those things anyway, I wonder what they're thinking...
That's my point. Make older cars more and more difficult to use either by legislation or driving up costs. Whilst converting an older car to EV is obviously a greener approach than buying a newer EV, in reality they don't give two s
ts about that anyway. There's a possibility of course. Cars over 40 years old are exempt the MoT but still have to renew VED, albeit at £0 rate. This may change. 
I did this last week for a Triumph Toledo, the admin cost of sending out a letter with a £0 bill in it seems lost on DVLA. But it is probably so that the registered keeper, every 12 months, either has to have a valid MoT, or declare that the vehicle is not substantially modified in the last 30 years.
Gordon Brown froze it at 25 years in 1998, probably because what at the time were considered at the time 'half-decent' cars were about to qualify and the VED receipts drop significantly.
The MoT exemption at 40 years old is a recent thing (introduced in 2018) after a long consultation (they originally considered 30!) and was aligned with the now 40-year rolling VED £0 (introduced in 2014 by Osborne). Those owners of 1973 'M' reg cars finally got it for free......
I did this last week for a Triumph Toledo, the admin cost of sending out a letter with a £0 bill in it seems lost on DVLA. But it is probably so that the registered keeper, every 12 months, either has to have a valid MoT, or declare that the vehicle is not substantially modified in the last 30 years.
Gordon Brown froze it at 25 years in 1998, probably because what at the time were considered at the time 'half-decent' cars were about to qualify and the VED receipts drop significantly.
The MoT exemption at 40 years old is a recent thing (introduced in 2018) after a long consultation (they originally considered 30!) and was aligned with the now 40-year rolling VED £0 (introduced in 2014 by Osborne). Those owners of 1973 'M' reg cars finally got it for free......
sixor8 said:
There's a possibility of course. Cars over 40 years old are exempt the MoT but still have to renew VED, albeit at £0 rate. This may change.
I did this last week for a Triumph Toledo, the admin cost of sending out a letter with a £0 bill in it seems lost on DVLA. But it is probably so that the registered keeper, every 12 months, either has to have a valid MoT, or declare that the vehicle is not substantially modified in the last 30 years.
Gordon Brown froze it at 25 years in 1998, probably because what at the time were considered at the time 'half-decent' cars were about to qualify and the VED receipts drop significantly.
The MoT exemption at 40 years old is a recent thing (introduced in 2018) after a long consultation (they originally considered 30!) and was aligned with the now 40-year rolling VED £0 (introduced in 2014 by Osborne). Those owners of 1973 'M' reg cars finally got it for free......
Tweeking the dates isn't completely daft, as cars do last a lot longer, and the point where current MOT checks becomes appropriate also moves. I did this last week for a Triumph Toledo, the admin cost of sending out a letter with a £0 bill in it seems lost on DVLA. But it is probably so that the registered keeper, every 12 months, either has to have a valid MoT, or declare that the vehicle is not substantially modified in the last 30 years.
Gordon Brown froze it at 25 years in 1998, probably because what at the time were considered at the time 'half-decent' cars were about to qualify and the VED receipts drop significantly.
The MoT exemption at 40 years old is a recent thing (introduced in 2018) after a long consultation (they originally considered 30!) and was aligned with the now 40-year rolling VED £0 (introduced in 2014 by Osborne). Those owners of 1973 'M' reg cars finally got it for free......
There was a time when a 25yo car was seriously uncommon and quite different beast, and now there are plenty of 25yo cars you could daily, thar also have most of the items an MOT would pick up.
Obviously wind the clock back further and there where plenty of 1920-30 cars that did 25+ years easy but that's another topic. They could still have a road worthyness inspection, but it would be so vastly different to a current MOT you would need different training and inspection scheme. At which point presumably those making the decisions have decided the benefits, risk reduction etc, does not justify the overheads of implementation.
SWoll said:
Oilchange said:
A classic mini would have none of those things anyway, I wonder what they're thinking...
That's my point. Make older cars more and more difficult to use either by legislation or driving up costs. Whilst converting an older car to EV is obviously a greener approach than buying a newer EV, in reality they don't give two sts about that anyway. Obviously you could reasonably easily fit a much more powerful EV motor than the original IC engine, but that's only the same as people who already stick a Busa engine in a mini/reliant so should be under similar rules.
Clearly if you significantly modify the original vehicle, cutting out structure and replacing it else where, such as a spaceframe grp body mini then it falls under existing requirements for that sort of work, in effect kitcar rules. However this would not include drilling holes for mounting a fuel cell or similar.
I know that the DVLA are seen as the baddies here.
But there is a proper problem. There is no way to modify an old car and for it to be IVA'd (as the OP says there is no way his mini would pass).
So whilst there isn't a way to test these converted old cars, they can't be legally built. That's not DVLA's fault surely?
There feels to me to be a need for EV converted classics to be tested as they weren't designed to be converted to EVs (obviously).
Is that up to DVLA to enable? I don't think so. Surely it's a DoT responsibility? They need to determine how to test EV conversions, or just say no it's not legal and never will be.
But there is a proper problem. There is no way to modify an old car and for it to be IVA'd (as the OP says there is no way his mini would pass).
So whilst there isn't a way to test these converted old cars, they can't be legally built. That's not DVLA's fault surely?
There feels to me to be a need for EV converted classics to be tested as they weren't designed to be converted to EVs (obviously).
Is that up to DVLA to enable? I don't think so. Surely it's a DoT responsibility? They need to determine how to test EV conversions, or just say no it's not legal and never will be.
It may be worth posting up on the legal section of the rodsnsods forum as there are some experts on there.
The rodding community have had problems for years with big mods, but this is the first I have heard of it being interpreted like this.
If you fitted rear 3 point seat belts in many classics, you would fall foul of this interpretation of the rules.
The rodding community have had problems for years with big mods, but this is the first I have heard of it being interpreted like this.
If you fitted rear 3 point seat belts in many classics, you would fall foul of this interpretation of the rules.
colin_p said:
Another tactic would be to ask them how you could fit a towbar to the car.
paulwf said:
If you fitted [almost anything to] many classics, you would fall foul of this interpretation of the rules.
Exactly. There are countless examples of where mounting holes have been made in cars, almost any vintage, classic, modified, converted vehicle will have had holes drilled into it to mount anything from an aftermarket radio aerial, ignition coil, fog light, through to cutting window in vans and bolting on towbars and disable access chair lifts etc, right up to chopping out and replacing huge amounts of the cills/pillars/rails to repair after crash damage or age related corrosion, including replacement of whole chassis on chassis based vehicles, also re-engining cars and carrying out driveline replacements.Sometimes major work needs inspection, most of the above list does not, but absolutely at no point does drilling a mounting hole mean the car loses its reg plate and needs to go through IVA inspection.
To me this is something which has gone seriously wrong somewhere.
Is that up to DVLA to enable? I don't think so. Surely it's a DoT responsibility? They need to determine how to test EV conversions, or just say no it's not legal and never will be.
[/quote]
A consortium of classic car converters are trying to liaise with the DoT and are having about as much luck as I am pinning it to someone who may make a decision!
bitsilly said:
Thanks all.
The holes were for mounting a plate to mount the batteries. The plate was secured over the cut out box of the original battery so actually removed a stress concentration!
I still don't get it! If an old Mini had rusty holes in the boot floor you could weld over it and it would pass.The holes were for mounting a plate to mount the batteries. The plate was secured over the cut out box of the original battery so actually removed a stress concentration!
Surely just do that, and then do what was suggested earlier, weld a u-shape bracket on to the new floor and drill a hole in the bracket.
M4cruiser said:
I still don't get it! If an old Mini had rusty holes in the boot floor you could weld over it and it would pass.
Ofcause.And is an old mini (or other car) had rusted through in places, as long as it was far enough from a suspension or seat belt mounting point, it would pass MOT (or presumably IVA, as it does cover that sort of thing really) without repair!
bitsilly said:
Is that up to DVLA to enable? I don't think so. Surely it's a DoT responsibility? They need to determine how to test EV conversions, or just say no it's not legal and never will be.
A consortium of classic car converters are trying to liaise with the DoT and are having about as much luck as I am pinning it to someone who may make a decision!
dhutch said:
I don't think there is a significant opening for taking a 40+yo car, and converting it to a modern EV for daily use. RV converted classics with remain a niche hobbyist type affair broadly inline with usage the same car would see in ICE configuration.
Obviously you could reasonably easily fit a much more powerful EV motor than the original IC engine, but that's only the same as people who already stick a Busa engine in a mini/reliant so should be under similar rules.
Clearly if you significantly modify the original vehicle, cutting out structure and replacing it else where, such as a spaceframe grp body mini then it falls under existing requirements for that sort of work, in effect kitcar rules. However this would not include drilling holes for mounting a fuel cell or similar.
It may be niche but I would surmise that to use them as a daily is EXACTLY why old classic cars are being converted to EVs. It will allow entry to all the ULEZ and LEZs, on the increase in cities around the country. And if over 40 years old £0 VED already. Obviously you could reasonably easily fit a much more powerful EV motor than the original IC engine, but that's only the same as people who already stick a Busa engine in a mini/reliant so should be under similar rules.
Clearly if you significantly modify the original vehicle, cutting out structure and replacing it else where, such as a spaceframe grp body mini then it falls under existing requirements for that sort of work, in effect kitcar rules. However this would not include drilling holes for mounting a fuel cell or similar.
EVs aren't converted to be 'fun' cars yet, are they?Expecting to do this and then retaining the MoT exemption is a bit 'having your cake and eating it' though. It has had substantial drive-train changes so should have be inspected.
I may get flamed for this but i think this is the DVLA doing their job. I have done some serious mods over the years (and always added the big brakes with the big engine) but i have also seen some very dangerous ones, one of which killed the owner. I love Minis but they were never overburdened in the structural integrity department and had dubious crash worthiness even by the standards of the 1960s. I would be wanting to ban it for the mere mention of a traction battery in the boot, it makes me think of the Pinto scene in Top Secret.
paulwf said:
It may be worth posting up on the legal section of the rodsnsods forum as there are some experts on there.
The rodding community have had problems for years with big mods, but this is the first I have heard of it being interpreted like this.
If you fitted rear 3 point seat belts in many classics, you would fall foul of this interpretation of the rules.
I don't think that's true. The rest of the car would still be standard. Drilling a hole in the chassis doesn't automatically make it a major modification. The problem the OP had is that once you are doing a major modification, an unmodified chassis/body is a requirement for it to qualify to retain the original registration, without which you need an IVA. The rodding community have had problems for years with big mods, but this is the first I have heard of it being interpreted like this.
If you fitted rear 3 point seat belts in many classics, you would fall foul of this interpretation of the rules.
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration/radically-...
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