Roadsters?

[Silvanus]

Risonax said:

MG Cyberster, or MG-C or MG-E (all names are possible).

Watching this car with interest

[Risonax]

Nomme de Plum said:

NDA said:

Turning a saloon into a roaster is not that simple. The whole body gives the car rigidity. The solid monocoque helps reduce flex and twist. Think of the ICE cars like Mercs and Audis that have saloon and convertible options. Quite a bit of extra strengthening required which of course adds weight.

The Mk3 MX5 is basically on a shortened RX8 platform.

Cabrios are not really like Roadsters; they generally had ridiculously complicated roof mechanisms.

992 911 Coupe S is 1606kg
992 911 Cabrio S is 1660kg.

There is a weight penalty, but its not the same sort of penalty you see on something like a Audi S5 or a car that was converted into a cabrio, such as by Karmann, Pininfarina.

The poster was not asking about chopping the roof off a Model 3; the body of course would need substantial reinforcement.

More referring to what you can do with this:



The main issue is having a roadster with not a particularly sporting driving position (seating is too high)

[TheDeuce]

Seat too high because of batteries? That's true if you try and make an EV roadster to the same rules an an ICE one. But what if they designed it to have the driver in a more reclined position with the pedals set back deeper to accommodate it? You can have that space available in a dedicated EV platform because no engine. You can also move the front axle right to the very front of the car.

I think the upcoming MG roadster will be fun, but we have yet to see any of the more prestigious brands actually bother with roadsters - when they eventually do, I suspect the end result will be quite different in numerous ways to the ICE template we're used too. I would imagine they will have the wheels pushed to the extreme corners of the car to offer high levels of stability and that the low CoG and perfect weight distribution will make for a pretty hardcore and satisfying experience.

My EV SUV corners flat and then exits the corner on a wave of instant torque, that's 'quite' good fun. I imagine in a smaller and lighter car, sat considerably lower, it could be quite exhilarating. Obviously you still don't get the engine sound to add to the drama but the sheer sensation of firing through corners the way a dedicated EV roadster could manage would itself be dramatic and exciting.

I think we simply have to wait and see how some of the world's most experienced car designers approach more niche EV's.

[limpsfield]

Silvanus said:

Watching this car with interest

Me too. It’s got a bit of an Alpine feeling, looking at that droopy rear.

[sherbertdip]

limpsfield said:

Silvanus said:

Watching this car with interest

Me too. It’s got a bit of an Alpine feeling, looking at that droopy rear.

Me too also, and if it has the Alpine style rear end it's a winner in my eyes, can't bloody wait

[Risonax]

Front and rear

[NMNeil]

Talking about MG roadsters. If they put this into production, I believe it would sell quite well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsz3G1A7M2k

[Silvanus]

NMNeil said:

Talking about MG roadsters. If they put this into production, I believe it would sell quite well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsz3G1A7M2k

The above car is the production version of the Cyberstar concept, the MGC. Take away all the extreme stuck on bits and its a very similar looking car, proportions and dimensionally its the same vehicle underneath. The styling gives and idea of what the hot Trophy/Triumph version could look like

[Risonax]

Silvanus said:

NMNeil said:

Talking about MG roadsters. If they put this into production, I believe it would sell quite well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsz3G1A7M2k

The above car is the production version of the Cyberstar concept, the MGC. Take away all the extreme stuck on bits and its a very similar looking car, proportions and dimensionally its the same vehicle underneath. The styling gives and idea of what the hot Trophy/Triumph version could look like

That Venom grill is growing on me, but its not always fitted when the concept is on display. I know grills are a bit obsolete on electric cars. It was shocking at first.





In the end, if the car doesn't drive well, it doesn't matter what it looks like,

The tenuous evidence, from the MG4, is that someone at MG understand chassis dynamics

edit: there are two concept cars it seems

[NMNeil]

Risonax said:

In the end, if the car doesn't drive well, it doesn't matter what it looks like,

I beg to differ
https://www.hotcars.com/popular-sports-cars-have-t...
But be honest, given the choice would you buy the concept MG or the one destined for production?

[kambites]

NMNeil said:

But be honest, given the choice would you buy the concept MG or the one destined for production?

The production one because it looks like I might be able to look through (as opposed to over) the windscreen and it seems plausible for it to have some suspension travel

[300bhp/ton]

sherbertdip said:

I have driven quite a few EVs, and the performance impresses me, but what's stopping me getting one is that I simply don't need an SUV or in fact 4 seats, I'm holding off until there is a roadster available, the only one I've seen (ignoring Tesla original and pie in the sky version) is the mooted one by MG.

Does anybody know of any more?

I agree, the EV choice is somewhat limited, esp in the UK.

I drove the MINI Electric 18 months ago. Found I really liked it, but I don't want a hatchback. If they had offered it as a convertible I'd have put my name down.

Likewise, not a convertible but I have a Suzuki Jimny. Now if that was available with the powertrain from the electric MINI I'd also be very interested.

But it seems EV's are mostly of the boring car type at present.

[survivalist]

NMNeil said:

Risonax said:

In the end, if the car doesn't drive well, it doesn't matter what it looks like,

I beg to differ
https://www.hotcars.com/popular-sports-cars-have-t...
But be honest, given the choice would you buy the concept MG or the one destined for production?

At least with the majority of those cars you got an awesome a fine to make up for the handling.

The article also seems to confuse ‘poor handling’ with not being really easy to drive fast.

Plenty of fast cars out there these days which are still very boring to drive, both ICE and EV.

[SWoll]

300bhp/ton said:

I agree, the EV choice is somewhat limited, esp in the UK.

I drove the MINI Electric 18 months ago. Found I really liked it, but I don't want a hatchback. If they had offered it as a convertible I'd have put my name down.

Likewise, not a convertible but I have a Suzuki Jimny. Now if that was available with the powertrain from the electric MINI I'd also be very interested.

But it seems EV's are mostly of the boring car type at present.

Limited supply and limited sales market for the moment in the UK at least, so no surprise the established brands are sticking to core rather than niche models.

MG are desperate to disrupt the wider market, and that alongside how they are funded puts them in a position to do things differently.

[Risonax]

300bhp/ton said:

sherbertdip said:

I have driven quite a few EVs, and the performance impresses me, but what's stopping me getting one is that I simply don't need an SUV or in fact 4 seats, I'm holding off until there is a roadster available, the only one I've seen (ignoring Tesla original and pie in the sky version) is the mooted one by MG.

Does anybody know of any more?

I agree, the EV choice is somewhat limited, esp in the UK.

I drove the MINI Electric 18 months ago. Found I really liked it, but I don't want a hatchback. If they had offered it as a convertible I'd have put my name down.

Likewise, not a convertible but I have a Suzuki Jimny. Now if that was available with the powertrain from the electric MINI I'd also be very interested.

But it seems EV's are mostly of the boring car type at present.

A decade ago, VW announced their BlueSport roadster concept, intended to take on the MX5. VW said they needed to sell 50-60,000 of these. In 2022, Mazda barely sold 20-25,000 MX5s. The Mk4 MX5 only happened because Fiat part funded development, and they eventually bailed out of it.

JD Power in 2020 said the average Mk4 owner was 62 years old, and 70% of them were men.
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/expert-reviews/2020-m...

In 1991, Popular Mechanics found 66% of 1990 Miata owners were aged 30-49 years old
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=f-MDAAAAMBAJ&a...

ie Most 1990 owners back then were probably guys who wanted a MG/Triumph/Elan back when they were new, but couldn't afford them. Then in 1990, they could afford the MX5 Miata. Mazda tapped into that pent up demand. In 1990, no one was resto-modding MGBs. Then, the typical MGB would be on chromed spokes, those shiney stainless steel sill covers, and a lot of piped leather. The old man's choice of sportscar.

In 2022, it seems the MX5 has become the old man's sports car of choice.

Does the MG-C (or whatever it is called) carve out a tiny part of that market (robbing sales from the MX5); that will be hard to do, because the MX5 market is now (small c) so conservative (don't like change). Why are MX5 owners so old, and why aren't 30-49 year olds not buying new MX5s as they did with the original model? Is there even a market now to revitalise?

I suppose SAIC/MG couldn't care less whether they made money on the MG-C. They are looking to establish a foothold in Europe, but like any car guys, they don't want to be known just for making cheap cars, They all want that halo car.

[TheDeuce]

Risonax said:

300bhp/ton said:

sherbertdip said:

I have driven quite a few EVs, and the performance impresses me, but what's stopping me getting one is that I simply don't need an SUV or in fact 4 seats, I'm holding off until there is a roadster available, the only one I've seen (ignoring Tesla original and pie in the sky version) is the mooted one by MG.

Does anybody know of any more?

I agree, the EV choice is somewhat limited, esp in the UK.

I drove the MINI Electric 18 months ago. Found I really liked it, but I don't want a hatchback. If they had offered it as a convertible I'd have put my name down.

Likewise, not a convertible but I have a Suzuki Jimny. Now if that was available with the powertrain from the electric MINI I'd also be very interested.

But it seems EV's are mostly of the boring car type at present.

A decade ago, VW announced their BlueSport roadster concept, intended to take on the MX5. VW said they needed to sell 50-60,000 of these. In 2022, Mazda barely sold 20-25,000 MX5s. The Mk4 MX5 only happened because Fiat part funded development, and they eventually bailed out of it.

JD Power in 2020 said the average Mk4 owner was 62 years old, and 70% of them were men.
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/expert-reviews/2020-m...

In 1991, Popular Mechanics found 66% of 1990 Miata owners were aged 30-49 years old
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=f-MDAAAAMBAJ&a...

ie Most 1990 owners back then were probably guys who wanted a MG/Triumph/Elan back when they were new, but couldn't afford them. Then in 1990, they could afford the MX5 Miata. Mazda tapped into that pent up demand. In 1990, no one was resto-modding MGBs. Then, the typical MGB would be on chromed spokes, those shiney stainless steel sill covers, and a lot of piped leather. The old man's choice of sportscar.

In 2022, it seems the MX5 has become the old man's sports car of choice.

Does the MG-C (or whatever it is called) carve out a tiny part of that market (robbing sales from the MX5); that will be hard to do, because the MX5 market is now (small c) so conservative (don't like change). Why are MX5 owners so old, and why aren't 30-49 year olds not buying new MX5s as they did with the original model? Is there even a market now to revitalise?

I suppose SAIC/MG couldn't care less whether they made money on the MG-C. They are looking to establish a foothold in Europe, but like any car guys, they don't want to be known just for making cheap cars, They all want that halo car.

Some very good observations made here imo.

Is the roadster already the preserve of the dying customer? Perhaps - although of course, fashions do swing and repeat, perhaps the future will prove that a roadster is a type of car that can put the soul back into a car when the rest of it, through enhancement, has become too perfect? Perhaps the flaw of having the wind rush through the cabin, which is entirely detrimental to the function of the car, will be the joyfully ridiculous thing that people crave at some point? Perhaps we need greener cars before the younger generation can start to look at what is 'fun' not just sensible?

Flares and crop tops keep coming back, both of which make no sense.

[SWoll]

Risonax said:

A decade ago, VW announced their BlueSport roadster concept, intended to take on the MX5. VW said they needed to sell 50-60,000 of these. In 2022, Mazda barely sold 20-25,000 MX5s. The Mk4 MX5 only happened because Fiat part funded development, and they eventually bailed out of it.

JD Power in 2020 said the average Mk4 owner was 62 years old, and 70% of them were men.
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/expert-reviews/2020-m...

In 1991, Popular Mechanics found 66% of 1990 Miata owners were aged 30-49 years old
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=f-MDAAAAMBAJ&a...

ie Most 1990 owners back then were probably guys who wanted a MG/Triumph/Elan back when they were new, but couldn't afford them. Then in 1990, they could afford the MX5 Miata. Mazda tapped into that pent up demand. In 1990, no one was resto-modding MGBs. Then, the typical MGB would be on chromed spokes, those shiney stainless steel sill covers, and a lot of piped leather. The old man's choice of sportscar.

In 2022, it seems the MX5 has become the old man's sports car of choice.

Does the MG-C (or whatever it is called) carve out a tiny part of that market (robbing sales from the MX5); that will be hard to do, because the MX5 market is now (small c) so conservative (don't like change). Why are MX5 owners so old, and why aren't 30-49 year olds not buying new MX5s as they did with the original model? Is there even a market now to revitalise?

I suppose SAIC/MG couldn't care less whether they made money on the MG-C. They are looking to establish a foothold in Europe, but like any car guys, they don't want to be known just for making cheap cars, They all want that halo car.

In 1991 there was very little choice in the 2 door sportscar market other than the MX5/Miata, especially if you wanted RWD. It took until the mid/late 90's for the likes of Lotus, Porsche, BMW and Mercedes to launch products so should come as no surprise that sales figures changed. I'd also suggest that older drivers are less concerned about the "hairdressers car" image that the MX5 has garnered over the years and of course the 30-49 year old's who bought MX5's back in the early 90's are now the same 60+ group buying them in 2020.

We'll 100% see roadsters from all of the usual suspects over the coming years I'm sure, still early days in the world of EV's.

[300bhp/ton]

SWoll said:

Risonax said:

A decade ago, VW announced their BlueSport roadster concept, intended to take on the MX5. VW said they needed to sell 50-60,000 of these. In 2022, Mazda barely sold 20-25,000 MX5s. The Mk4 MX5 only happened because Fiat part funded development, and they eventually bailed out of it.

JD Power in 2020 said the average Mk4 owner was 62 years old, and 70% of them were men.
https://www.jdpower.com/cars/expert-reviews/2020-m...

In 1991, Popular Mechanics found 66% of 1990 Miata owners were aged 30-49 years old
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=f-MDAAAAMBAJ&a...

ie Most 1990 owners back then were probably guys who wanted a MG/Triumph/Elan back when they were new, but couldn't afford them. Then in 1990, they could afford the MX5 Miata. Mazda tapped into that pent up demand. In 1990, no one was resto-modding MGBs. Then, the typical MGB would be on chromed spokes, those shiney stainless steel sill covers, and a lot of piped leather. The old man's choice of sportscar.

In 2022, it seems the MX5 has become the old man's sports car of choice.

Does the MG-C (or whatever it is called) carve out a tiny part of that market (robbing sales from the MX5); that will be hard to do, because the MX5 market is now (small c) so conservative (don't like change). Why are MX5 owners so old, and why aren't 30-49 year olds not buying new MX5s as they did with the original model? Is there even a market now to revitalise?

I suppose SAIC/MG couldn't care less whether they made money on the MG-C. They are looking to establish a foothold in Europe, but like any car guys, they don't want to be known just for making cheap cars, They all want that halo car.

In 1991 there was very little choice in the 2 door sportscar market other than the MX5/Miata, especially if you wanted RWD. It took until the mid/late 90's for the likes of Lotus, Porsche, BMW and Mercedes to launch products so should come as no surprise that sales figures changed. I'd also suggest that older drivers are less concerned about the "hairdressers car" image that the MX5 has garnered over the years and of course the 30-49 year old's who bought MX5's back in the early 90's are now the same 60+ group buying them in 2020.

We'll 100% see roadsters from all of the usual suspects over the coming years I'm sure, still early days in the world of EV's.

Not that it matters really. But interesting you miss MG off your list there. The MGF/TF was the best selling roadster in the UK and Europe for most years of its production. It was so successful that BMW (then owners of Rover) wouldn't let it be sold in the USA for fear of it taking to many Z3 sales.

[otolith]

300bhp/ton said:

Not that it matters really. But interesting you miss MG off your list there. The MGF/TF was the best selling roadster in the UK and Europe for most years of its production. It was so successful that BMW (then owners of Rover) wouldn't let it be sold in the USA for fear of it taking to many Z3 sales.

The TF launch was post-BMW.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a2106791/mg-tf-not-u...

Given that Lotus felt the need to ditch the K series to produce a federal Elise, I suspect the real reason is simply that there wasn't money to develop a US compliant MGF.

http://sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/information/tech...

[300bhp/ton]

otolith said:

The TF launch was post-BMW.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a2106791/mg-tf-not-u...

Given that Lotus felt the need to ditch the K series to produce a federal Elise, I suspect the real reason is simply that there wasn't money to develop a US compliant MGF.

http://sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/information/tech...

The F was during BMW ownership. So, very much dictated by BMW. A bit like certain things BMW did to prevent the Rover 75 directly competing against the 3 Series in some segments.

I believe there is quite a tale around the K-Series and Lotus. There is an article on AROnline. Apparently Lotus never asked for a federalised K-Series, but Rover would have been willing had they.

As for money... maybe. But they developed other models for the US market at this time. And the success of the Mazda Miata in the US would have suggested it would have been a no brainer with the F. Especially given the legacy of the MGB in the USA.