Why exactly is the public charging network so flakey?
Discussion
TheRainMaker said:
A licence should be needed to supply EV charging to the public,
2% downtime gets your licence pulled.
Less than 70% of the advertised power supplied, your license pulled.
No contactless option, your license pulled.
No systems in place to stop overstayers, your licence pulled.
It wouldn't take much.
I'll add another one:2% downtime gets your licence pulled.
Less than 70% of the advertised power supplied, your license pulled.
No contactless option, your license pulled.
No systems in place to stop overstayers, your licence pulled.
It wouldn't take much.
- comms or card reader failure? unit must immediately default to 'free vend' like the old electric highway units did.
codenamecueball said:
But Edinburgh also has a fleet of rapid chargers in the city installed which, bar a couple out of service and 30 minute limits, represent quite good value at 35p/kWh. The 22kW posts also represent great value if you're popping in for a couple of hours to do shopping and don't mind walking 2 minutes to George St.
I've only used public charging 4 times so far. Locally, once at a rapid -30p/kWh and once at a 22kW -16pkWh! just to check them out and also to try the Charge Place Scotland card which is great. Also no problems with the Killin or Pitlochry rapid chargers and both were free! Aviemore however... no faults but cars were queueing for the single charger the entire time I was there. Didn't need to use it as having topped up at Pitlochry we had more than enough for local running and to get home.
Surprised to see Teslas waiting at the Aviemore one when there's a bank of superchargers nearby.
Edit kWh doh!
Edited by 5s Alive on Saturday 14th January 15:15
I've seen a few 50kW chargers at Shell stations, however they only have one charger per station of 12-20 petrol/diesel pumps and cost 79p/kW.
With 40 % of the population unable to charge overnight, there should be massive amounts of chargers being installed.
Mer seems to be the supplier in the two public car parks I use (one is max 7kW and the other max 22kW.)
But when I had my ID3 I couldn't charge it there.
I thought I could just tap a debit card, but instead I had to get a charge card from them in the post before I could use the chargers as I don't use apps.
There are a few million people that don't have smartphones either, it needs to be easy for anyone to pay at whatever charger they are at.
With 40 % of the population unable to charge overnight, there should be massive amounts of chargers being installed.
Mer seems to be the supplier in the two public car parks I use (one is max 7kW and the other max 22kW.)
But when I had my ID3 I couldn't charge it there.
I thought I could just tap a debit card, but instead I had to get a charge card from them in the post before I could use the chargers as I don't use apps.
There are a few million people that don't have smartphones either, it needs to be easy for anyone to pay at whatever charger they are at.
It’s a very good question. It’s all about financial incentive which no one has (Apart from Tesla)
Traditional charger tech is reliable. But like any power conversion electronics it needs maintenance, both hardware and firmware. Public chargers more so because by nature they will be less reliable. They are open to the elements, grubby fingers of the public, energised and de energised multiple times a day.
So there is a cost to maintaining a reliable network and who pays for that? When a charger stops working, who is incentivised to fix it immediately??
Not Porsche, Kia, Jaguar etc. Not the charger manufacture or service provider as they've done their bit.
While I’m not of the opinion to throw every problem at the government, in this instant it we should. They are nudging people into EV’s and unless you drive a Tesla or can rely on home charging then public charging is becoming more of an expensive inconvenience.
Public charging needs to be a regulated public service.
Traditional charger tech is reliable. But like any power conversion electronics it needs maintenance, both hardware and firmware. Public chargers more so because by nature they will be less reliable. They are open to the elements, grubby fingers of the public, energised and de energised multiple times a day.
So there is a cost to maintaining a reliable network and who pays for that? When a charger stops working, who is incentivised to fix it immediately??
Not Porsche, Kia, Jaguar etc. Not the charger manufacture or service provider as they've done their bit.
While I’m not of the opinion to throw every problem at the government, in this instant it we should. They are nudging people into EV’s and unless you drive a Tesla or can rely on home charging then public charging is becoming more of an expensive inconvenience.
Public charging needs to be a regulated public service.
Zero Fuchs said:
I've never had any problems with Podpoint, Geniepoint, Dragon, or Instavolt but appreciate I might have been lucky.
Apart from Tesla SuCs, I've used Instavolt multiple times, as well as FastNed and once Gridserve. Never had a problem.The only one that didn't work was BP Pulse!
I've plenty experience on this subject. I'm not your typical EV driver so have to use the public network lots. It's utterly dreadful.
I'll add trying to get a vat invoice to the list, it's a nightmare.
Instavolt generally work as they are all serviced and checked weekly. Though usually only 50kw.
Ionity great but not enough of them and rarely can you get anywhere near 300kw out of them.
Grid serve are ok but there's a lot of resetting the systems on the machines.
I've got charge place Scotland on speed dial. Though it's got the potential to work really well it's reliant on individual councils running the machines, some regions are utterly hopeless, machines out of action for months on end.
I've a whole screen of random charging apps too. Seriously the system is at breaking point. Or it'll break you trying.
I'll add trying to get a vat invoice to the list, it's a nightmare.
Instavolt generally work as they are all serviced and checked weekly. Though usually only 50kw.
Ionity great but not enough of them and rarely can you get anywhere near 300kw out of them.
Grid serve are ok but there's a lot of resetting the systems on the machines.
I've got charge place Scotland on speed dial. Though it's got the potential to work really well it's reliant on individual councils running the machines, some regions are utterly hopeless, machines out of action for months on end.
I've a whole screen of random charging apps too. Seriously the system is at breaking point. Or it'll break you trying.
PBCD said:
TheRainMaker said:
A licence should be needed to supply EV charging to the public,
2% downtime gets your licence pulled.
Less than 70% of the advertised power supplied, your license pulled.
No contactless option, your license pulled.
No systems in place to stop overstayers, your licence pulled.
It wouldn't take much.
I'll add another one:2% downtime gets your licence pulled.
Less than 70% of the advertised power supplied, your license pulled.
No contactless option, your license pulled.
No systems in place to stop overstayers, your licence pulled.
It wouldn't take much.
- comms or card reader failure? unit must immediately default to 'free vend' like the old electric highway units did.
I work in chargepoint design so can give some insight. The market for chargers between 7kw and 150kw is extremely competitive and margins are tight, this is for a few reasons. Firstly legislation is moving very quickly so chargers have to jump through lots of hoops now, some of which are very expensive (payment card readers, the software they run and periodic checks for skimming devices). Secondly one of the primary customers are local councils, which want to hit targets of X number of chargers installed, this means they choose the absolute cheapest charger and maintenance package on the market. Everyone is trying to cut corners to be competitive for these larger more lucrative contracts. Thirdly no matter how well a charger is designed, we have no control (outside of the design office) how the charger is installed, I've seen twitter posts of my charger installed next to a wall with the charge port blocked etc, installed 2ft off the floor too, infuriating.
Edited by Crudeoink on Sunday 15th January 22:21
As an aside I've been to Leigh Delamere this week and Gridserve have installed a bank of 5 or 6 CCS chargers (and ones where two can charge simultaneously). Not as many as the Tesla chargers wrapped in plastic in the next row of spaces but a welcome sight on the M4.
I saw the same at Woolley Edge on the M1 southbound. All working fine so a positive step. I'm hoping there are more elsewhere, if my recent experience isn't an isolated one.
I saw the same at Woolley Edge on the M1 southbound. All working fine so a positive step. I'm hoping there are more elsewhere, if my recent experience isn't an isolated one.
cptsideways said:
I've plenty experience on this subject. I'm not your typical EV driver so have to use the public network lots. It's utterly dreadful.
I'll add trying to get a vat invoice to the list, it's a nightmare.
Instavolt generally work as they are all serviced and checked weekly. Though usually only 50kw.
Ionity great but not enough of them and rarely can you get anywhere near 300kw out of them.
Errmm what car have you got?I'll add trying to get a vat invoice to the list, it's a nightmare.
Instavolt generally work as they are all serviced and checked weekly. Though usually only 50kw.
Ionity great but not enough of them and rarely can you get anywhere near 300kw out of them.
Maracus said:
Personally, I'd like to see a charging hub between Preston and Carlisle. It is sparse!
Tebay southbound has Superchargers, Killington Lake services has a lot of chargersTheDrownedApe said:
This is my one annoyance too. Rarely charge outside of the home but when i do it's one of 3 locations:
M6 Stoke to Wigan
Shrewsbury or mid Wales
M5 Bristol to Exeter
Except for the M5 area (which works well) they are either broken, ICE'd or already being used.
Mid and North Wales is a disaster and If it wasn't for the kindness of family (3 pin granny) i would struggle to visit North wales in my EV. There is a new charger in Bala though that is proving a very useful for a quick 10 min top up.
We recently went from St Ives to Hereford and the problems we had should never have been an issue. OH is pretty crap at reading maps so i lplan my charging stop before i leave, go to Zapmap, read recent comments, check prices and paying options, programme that in as a stop only to arrive and it be broken or won't accept contactless due to ???? So then i have to search for another charger, whilst sat idle, that i either have the app for or accepts contactless. Then find out that the road where you need to go is closed (M4 bridge) and the diversion is great but misses out the charger by miles.
My next trip is overnight in Leeds and trying to find the best combination of overnight carpark and charging - why isn't it simple!!!! Do they have idle charges? Do i need to go back to the carpark after it's charged and move it out of the bay even though there are 10s of chargers. How long will it take to recharge to 90% as the charging speed is never accurate? i need to pay in advance for parking yet i don't know how long i will need it for?
sorry ranting now - i love my EV and have a new shiny C40 coming in a month, but i wish it was easier for those times where you are supposed to be enjoying time away and you have that lingering doubt hanging around.
I don't know what the solution is, but suspect that like others have mentioned it's a business that needs to be sustainable and atm it isn't.
BP have installed about 10 chargers at their service station at M6 J27, Standish.M6 Stoke to Wigan
Shrewsbury or mid Wales
M5 Bristol to Exeter
Except for the M5 area (which works well) they are either broken, ICE'd or already being used.
Mid and North Wales is a disaster and If it wasn't for the kindness of family (3 pin granny) i would struggle to visit North wales in my EV. There is a new charger in Bala though that is proving a very useful for a quick 10 min top up.
We recently went from St Ives to Hereford and the problems we had should never have been an issue. OH is pretty crap at reading maps so i lplan my charging stop before i leave, go to Zapmap, read recent comments, check prices and paying options, programme that in as a stop only to arrive and it be broken or won't accept contactless due to ???? So then i have to search for another charger, whilst sat idle, that i either have the app for or accepts contactless. Then find out that the road where you need to go is closed (M4 bridge) and the diversion is great but misses out the charger by miles.
My next trip is overnight in Leeds and trying to find the best combination of overnight carpark and charging - why isn't it simple!!!! Do they have idle charges? Do i need to go back to the carpark after it's charged and move it out of the bay even though there are 10s of chargers. How long will it take to recharge to 90% as the charging speed is never accurate? i need to pay in advance for parking yet i don't know how long i will need it for?
sorry ranting now - i love my EV and have a new shiny C40 coming in a month, but i wish it was easier for those times where you are supposed to be enjoying time away and you have that lingering doubt hanging around.
I don't know what the solution is, but suspect that like others have mentioned it's a business that needs to be sustainable and atm it isn't.
2fast748 said:
Maracus said:
Personally, I'd like to see a charging hub between Preston and Carlisle. It is sparse!
Tebay southbound has Superchargers, Killington Lake services has a lot of chargersI mean a hub, maybe something like there is at Redbridge near Oxford. Multiple Tesla, FastNED, Instavolt, Gridserve.
Ionity are building at Carlisle atleast.
https://publicaccess.carlisle.gov.uk/online-applic...
Then Burton-in-Kendall North has a Gridserve hub recently opened with 6 x 350kW aswell as the original units
https://www.plugshare.com/location/56904
So slow progress but progress.
https://publicaccess.carlisle.gov.uk/online-applic...
Then Burton-in-Kendall North has a Gridserve hub recently opened with 6 x 350kW aswell as the original units
https://www.plugshare.com/location/56904
So slow progress but progress.
I am more bothered about Gretna Green to Edinburgh- six double posts going in at Gretna Gridserve at the moment (saw them just before Christmas - spaces cordoned off and units there ready to be installed). Nothing extra installed between Gretna and Edinburgh in over three years. A couple of 50kW at Straiton Park shopping centre in last couple of years but number of cars using them up by a lot more
JonnyVTEC said:
Ionity are building at Carlisle atleast.
https://publicaccess.carlisle.gov.uk/online-applic...
Then Burton-in-Kendall North has a Gridserve hub recently opened with 6 x 350kW aswell as the original units
https://www.plugshare.com/location/56904
So slow progress but progress.
I used the Burton in K Gridserve just before Christmas. The Motorway was quiet and I used the 3rd bay. That will soon get rammed, but at least the expansion is starting.https://publicaccess.carlisle.gov.uk/online-applic...
Then Burton-in-Kendall North has a Gridserve hub recently opened with 6 x 350kW aswell as the original units
https://www.plugshare.com/location/56904
So slow progress but progress.
Ardennes92 said:
And sometimes it is the user that is the problem; why park in a 7kw and then plug into a 22kw? Yes both 22kw spaces were empty!
There is a rapid charger at a ferry terminal I pass. One charger but two spaces/cables so you'd think it's fairly obvious you use the cable nearest the space you are parked in.Yet, when I passed a while ago, someone was parked in the left space but using the charge cable from the right one!
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