Life and Death of Li Ion batteries
Discussion
wormus said:
Evanivitch said:
The Toyota one isn't even EV related 
Eh? “TOKYO, June 23 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) said on Thursday it would recall 2,700 of its first mass-produced electric vehicles (EVs) for the global market because of a riskthe wheels could come loose.”
It's like saying ICE are prone to failing and pointing to Zafira fires. It's irrelevant.
Evanivitch said:
wormus said:
Evanivitch said:
The Toyota one isn't even EV related
Eh? “TOKYO, June 23 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) said on Thursday it would recall 2,700 of its first mass-produced electric vehicles (EVs) for the global market because of a riskthe wheels could come loose.”
It's like saying ICE are prone to failing and pointing to Zafira fires. It's irrelevant.
GT9 said:
Evanivitch said:
wormus said:
Evanivitch said:
The Toyota one isn't even EV related
Eh? “TOKYO, June 23 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) said on Thursday it would recall 2,700 of its first mass-produced electric vehicles (EVs) for the global market because of a riskthe wheels could come loose.”
It's like saying ICE are prone to failing and pointing to Zafira fires. It's irrelevant.
wormus said:
I’d say team hydrogen and synthetic fuel are the future whilst the yogurt knitters with their EVs will quickly find themselves with worthless cars. Even Germany is resisting the ban in 2035 https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/cze...
Yeah, yeah, where are you getting your gargantuan levels of renewable energy from for the low-efficiency pathways? Fusion?
Maths and science, Wormus, maths and science.
Evanivitch said:
wormus said:
Evanivitch said:
The Toyota one isn't even EV related
Eh? “TOKYO, June 23 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) said on Thursday it would recall 2,700 of its first mass-produced electric vehicles (EVs) for the global market because of a riskthe wheels could come loose.”
It's like saying ICE are prone to failing and pointing to Zafira fires. It's irrelevant.
GT9 said:
wormus said:
I’d say team hydrogen and synthetic fuel are the future whilst the yogurt knitters with their EVs will quickly find themselves with worthless cars. Even Germany is resisting the ban in 2035 https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/news/cze...
Yeah, yeah, where are you getting your gargantuan levels of renewable energy from for the low-efficiency pathways? Fusion?
Maths and science, Wormus, maths and science.
wormus said:
Guess it depends how many you build. I like the idea of making my own small modular reactor!
Some light reading to help you work out how many reactors you might need.A well researched and balanced report on the e-fuel conundrum:
https://www.transportenvironment.org/wp-content/up...
GT9 said:
Some light reading to help you work out how many reactors you might need.
A well researched and balanced report on the e-fuel conundrum:
https://www.transportenvironment.org/wp-content/up...
Don’t feed the troll.A well researched and balanced report on the e-fuel conundrum:
https://www.transportenvironment.org/wp-content/up...
wormus said:
Evanivitch said:
wormus said:
Evanivitch said:
The Toyota one isn't even EV related
Eh? “TOKYO, June 23 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T) said on Thursday it would recall 2,700 of its first mass-produced electric vehicles (EVs) for the global market because of a riskthe wheels could come loose.”
It's like saying ICE are prone to failing and pointing to Zafira fires. It's irrelevant.
There are some interesting comments about the fate of EV batteries in this article:
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
The specialist salvage company - Synetiq - claims that there are no facilities in the UK for recycling old/damaged EV batteries so they are being stored in containers which sounds a bit risky.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
The specialist salvage company - Synetiq - claims that there are no facilities in the UK for recycling old/damaged EV batteries so they are being stored in containers which sounds a bit risky.
Mikehig said:
There are some interesting comments about the fate of EV batteries in this article:
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
The specialist salvage company - Synetiq - claims that there are no facilities in the UK for recycling old/damaged EV batteries so they are being stored in containers which sounds a bit risky.
It quotes ‘experts’ who say that the latest Tesla battery packs are not removable. Obviously they haven’t bothered to read the Tesla service manual that details the process for removing and replacing such a battery.https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
The specialist salvage company - Synetiq - claims that there are no facilities in the UK for recycling old/damaged EV batteries so they are being stored in containers which sounds a bit risky.
Lazy journalism.
Lazy reading, I actually says they Model Y structural pack is difficult to remove and can’t be repaired. This echoes the tear down Munro and associates did to that exact same pack.
It’s al so true that and damage to the underside of the pack will require replacement if the car was presented for inspection by insurance approved repairers, rendering many cars written off due to the addition cost of battery replacement.
It’s actually quite a well balanced article if you read an comprehend what is written.
It’s al so true that and damage to the underside of the pack will require replacement if the car was presented for inspection by insurance approved repairers, rendering many cars written off due to the addition cost of battery replacement.
It’s actually quite a well balanced article if you read an comprehend what is written.
Mikehig said:
There are some interesting comments about the fate of EV batteries in this article:
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
The specialist salvage company - Synetiq - claims that there are no facilities in the UK for recycling old/damaged EV batteries so they are being stored in containers which sounds a bit risky.
The reason there's no facility for recycling such batteries is largely that there's very little supply of batteries ready for recycling.https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
The specialist salvage company - Synetiq - claims that there are no facilities in the UK for recycling old/damaged EV batteries so they are being stored in containers which sounds a bit risky.
OutInTheShed said:
Mikehig said:
There are some interesting comments about the fate of EV batteries in this article:
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
The specialist salvage company - Synetiq - claims that there are no facilities in the UK for recycling old/damaged EV batteries so they are being stored in containers which sounds a bit risky.
The reason there's no facility for recycling such batteries is largely that there's very little supply of batteries ready for recycling.https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportat...
The specialist salvage company - Synetiq - claims that there are no facilities in the UK for recycling old/damaged EV batteries so they are being stored in containers which sounds a bit risky.
"At Synetiq, the UK's largest salvage company, head of operations Michael Hill said over the last 12 months the number of EVs in the isolation bay – where they must be checked to avoid fire risk - at the firm's Doncaster yard has soared, from perhaps a dozen every three days to up to 20 per day.
"We've seen a really big shift and it's across all manufacturers," Hill said.
The UK currently has no EV battery recycling facilities, so Synetiq has to remove the batteries from written-off cars and store them in containers. Hill estimated at least 95% of the cells in the hundreds of EV battery packs - and thousands of hybrid battery packs - Synetiq has stored at Doncaster are undamaged and should be reused."
At 20 per day those hundreds of EV batteries will soon be thousands. Add in the hybrid packs and it must all add to substantial potential value in repaired packs and recovered material. Unless repair/material recovery is problematic, it's surprising that no-one has set up shop to do this.
Mikehig said:
The article says:
"At Synetiq, the UK's largest salvage company, head of operations Michael Hill said over the last 12 months the number of EVs in the isolation bay – where they must be checked to avoid fire risk - at the firm's Doncaster yard has soared, from perhaps a dozen every three days to up to 20 per day.
"We've seen a really big shift and it's across all manufacturers," Hill said.
The UK currently has no EV battery recycling facilities, so Synetiq has to remove the batteries from written-off cars and store them in containers. Hill estimated at least 95% of the cells in the hundreds of EV battery packs - and thousands of hybrid battery packs - Synetiq has stored at Doncaster are undamaged and should be reused."
At 20 per day those hundreds of EV batteries will soon be thousands. Add in the hybrid packs and it must all add to substantial potential value in repaired packs and recovered material. Unless repair/material recovery is problematic, it's surprising that no-one has set up shop to do this.
Chicken and egg really."At Synetiq, the UK's largest salvage company, head of operations Michael Hill said over the last 12 months the number of EVs in the isolation bay – where they must be checked to avoid fire risk - at the firm's Doncaster yard has soared, from perhaps a dozen every three days to up to 20 per day.
"We've seen a really big shift and it's across all manufacturers," Hill said.
The UK currently has no EV battery recycling facilities, so Synetiq has to remove the batteries from written-off cars and store them in containers. Hill estimated at least 95% of the cells in the hundreds of EV battery packs - and thousands of hybrid battery packs - Synetiq has stored at Doncaster are undamaged and should be reused."
At 20 per day those hundreds of EV batteries will soon be thousands. Add in the hybrid packs and it must all add to substantial potential value in repaired packs and recovered material. Unless repair/material recovery is problematic, it's surprising that no-one has set up shop to do this.
Nobody is going to invest in a recycling facility until the numbers are sufficient.
20 vehicles a day is only a few thousand a year. The batteries are not hugely valuable.
You need big numbers to start up an industry.
Wages, premises, technology all cost a lot.
When it starts to look like big money, the industry will appear.
There's no point starting too small, knowing in 5 years' time you'll be obsolete.
I think we are not far from the point where it starts to make sense
Mikehig said:
The article says:
"At Synetiq, the UK's largest salvage company, head of operations Michael Hill said over the last 12 months the number of EVs in the isolation bay – where they must be checked to avoid fire risk - at the firm's Doncaster yard has soared, from perhaps a dozen every three days to up to 20 per day.
"We've seen a really big shift and it's across all manufacturers," Hill said.
The UK currently has no EV battery recycling facilities, so Synetiq has to remove the batteries from written-off cars and store them in containers. Hill estimated at least 95% of the cells in the hundreds of EV battery packs - and thousands of hybrid battery packs - Synetiq has stored at Doncaster are undamaged and should be reused."
At 20 per day those hundreds of EV batteries will soon be thousands. Add in the hybrid packs and it must all add to substantial potential value in repaired packs and recovered material. Unless repair/material recovery is problematic, it's surprising that no-one has set up shop to do this.
The longer those undamaged battery packs sit in storage the more likely they'll turn into bricked batteries."At Synetiq, the UK's largest salvage company, head of operations Michael Hill said over the last 12 months the number of EVs in the isolation bay – where they must be checked to avoid fire risk - at the firm's Doncaster yard has soared, from perhaps a dozen every three days to up to 20 per day.
"We've seen a really big shift and it's across all manufacturers," Hill said.
The UK currently has no EV battery recycling facilities, so Synetiq has to remove the batteries from written-off cars and store them in containers. Hill estimated at least 95% of the cells in the hundreds of EV battery packs - and thousands of hybrid battery packs - Synetiq has stored at Doncaster are undamaged and should be reused."
At 20 per day those hundreds of EV batteries will soon be thousands. Add in the hybrid packs and it must all add to substantial potential value in repaired packs and recovered material. Unless repair/material recovery is problematic, it's surprising that no-one has set up shop to do this.
So there's two-fold, we need a means to second-life these batteries that are useable and a means to recycle expired batteries back to raw product. And shipping them is hazardous so ideally a UK location.
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