Long trip advice for new EV driver
Discussion
If I ran out of petrol/electric in the middle of Scotland which could I refuel in a moment with a little help and be on my way in a very short space of time and which car would leave me stranded needing a diesel spewing low loader to rescue me, possibly a day or two later?
This is the question I'd be asking myself.
This is the question I'd be asking myself.
Pepperpots said:
If I ran out of petrol/electric in the middle of Scotland which could I refuel in a moment with a little help and be on my way in a very short space of time and which car would leave me stranded needing a diesel spewing low loader to rescue me, possibly a day or two later?
This is the question I'd be asking myself.
Why would you run out of petrol or electric?This is the question I'd be asking myself.
I've never run out of fuel in any car. I'm not about to start now.....
Pepperpots said:
If I ran out of petrol/electric in the middle of Scotland which could I refuel in a moment with a little help and be on my way in a very short space of time and which car would leave me stranded needing a diesel spewing low loader to rescue me, possibly a day or two later?
This is the question I'd be asking myself.
Who cares. The important thing being that someone that incompetent would hopefully be eaten by locals and save their English taxpayers of the fiscal burden. This is the question I'd be asking myself.
They do have electricity in these heathen locations which hotels will let you have while one eats or sleeps. Unlike the local petrol pump which can stop working around 4pm when Angus walks home for supper and doesn't necessarily return to the garage the next morning.
My view of it is that if you run out of petrol, you pay a farmer or your breakdown company an overinflated sum for a tin of fuel. Add 20 mins onto that for diesel if you know how to bleed the system.
With electric, you will be dropped off at the nearest charger and still have to sit there until the thing has enough range. And being Scotlandshire, that could be at a slo-mo one.
With electric, you will be dropped off at the nearest charger and still have to sit there until the thing has enough range. And being Scotlandshire, that could be at a slo-mo one.
Pepperpots said:
If I ran out of petrol/electric in the middle of Scotland which could I refuel in a moment with a little help and be on my way in a very short space of time and which car would leave me stranded needing a diesel spewing low loader to rescue me, possibly a day or two later?
This is the question I'd be asking myself.
I have done around 140k miles travelling all over Scotland in an EV over the last 4 and a bit years and have never run out of electricity.This is the question I'd be asking myself.
CheesecakeRunner said:
Whereas I’m deliberately changing my Tesla for a non-Tesla EV. The supercharger Tesla owner advantage is going, rapidly (if you’ll excuse the pun).
16 Tesla stations now open to all makes, and I’ll bet all the rest will be open within the next two years, as they are already in mainland Europe.
Have you done many long trips in a Tesla or non-Tesla? 16 Tesla stations now open to all makes, and I’ll bet all the rest will be open within the next two years, as they are already in mainland Europe.
Tesla's aren't only better for long trips because of the supercharger network they are better because of efficiency, range, charging cost, route planning and the energy graphs that give you information about how much range you will have when you arrive, all these things combined make them better for long trips than other EVs and I would never go back to a non-Tesla because I do a lot of long trips.
Pooh said:
Have you done many long trips in a Tesla or non-Tesla?
Tesla's aren't only better for long trips because of the supercharger network they are better because of efficiency, range, charging cost, route planning and the energy graphs that give you information about how much range you will have when you arrive, all these things combined make them better for long trips than other EVs and I would never go back to a non-Tesla because I do a lot of long trips.
I think these days you have quite a few faster charging options (10 -> 80%), according to ev-database. Admittedly still pretty high in the efficiency rankings.Tesla's aren't only better for long trips because of the supercharger network they are better because of efficiency, range, charging cost, route planning and the energy graphs that give you information about how much range you will have when you arrive, all these things combined make them better for long trips than other EVs and I would never go back to a non-Tesla because I do a lot of long trips.
Edited by PetrolHeadInRecovery on Wednesday 29th March 16:19
This is all interesting stuff. I have recently done the same Preston - Plymouth trip (c. 310 miles) twice; once in a diesel BMW 335 Touring (mine) and then a week later in a colleague's Tesla Model Y.
In mine, it's an easy trip, I can get about 500 or so miles out of a tank and we just did it in one go apart from a brief comfort break somewhere near Gloucester, so I was interested to see how the Model Y compared.
First thing to note, it was very cold in the morning (set off at 5:30am, after scraping the ice off the car) and we had seat heaters etc on, so range was showing as about 200 miles. Due to this my colleague kept the speed at around 65 mph but it still seemed to be dropping faster than we were travelling.
Our first stop was easy, plenty of chargers and no queues on the Tesla ones (although I could only see three non-Tesla ones and they were all busy). However, we decided to make a second stop at Exeter because we noticed that there are very few accessible chargers in Plymouth) and that was much busier and we had to wait about 10 - 15 mins or so for a charger to come free.
We walked away from the car and a few minutes later the owner got a notification that the car wasn't charging. We walked back and couldn't see what was wrong, but shuffled the car to a different charger (fortunately another one had become free) and that seemed to be fine. Again there were very few non-Tesla chargers, and they were also busy.
I was impressed with the way that the in-car display showed how many chargers there were, what type and how many were free, but of course this could change just as you’re driving up to one, so your planning had better have some slack in it.
After including the two stops (each of which was less than an hour, and apparently cost c.£25 each) we made it to Plymouth in about 6 hours. This was about 90 mins slower than in my diesel although significantly cheaper. The return trip was very similar but fewer chargers were occupied (albeit we were much later in the day) so we were in and out in less than an hour each time, although in my case, I noticed my average speed when I did the same journey was (cough) a shade over 70mph, whereas in the Tesla the following week it was less than 60.
So, all things considered, yes, I can see the case for Teslas, the info you get, the availability of fast chargers etc seems pretty impressive (although not in Plymouth). However, I think my 335d 'feels' better, looks better, cruises faster for longer and costs less overall (but only because it's older) so at the moment I can't see why you'd change, and I certainly wouldn't consider a non-Tesla until the charging infrastructure is wayyy better.
Probably not that far off though, and when an EV 3-Series Touring comes out I'll be having a good look at that.
TL;DR - a long trip in a non-Tesla? Do some planning and allow plenty of spare time.
In mine, it's an easy trip, I can get about 500 or so miles out of a tank and we just did it in one go apart from a brief comfort break somewhere near Gloucester, so I was interested to see how the Model Y compared.
First thing to note, it was very cold in the morning (set off at 5:30am, after scraping the ice off the car) and we had seat heaters etc on, so range was showing as about 200 miles. Due to this my colleague kept the speed at around 65 mph but it still seemed to be dropping faster than we were travelling.
Our first stop was easy, plenty of chargers and no queues on the Tesla ones (although I could only see three non-Tesla ones and they were all busy). However, we decided to make a second stop at Exeter because we noticed that there are very few accessible chargers in Plymouth) and that was much busier and we had to wait about 10 - 15 mins or so for a charger to come free.
We walked away from the car and a few minutes later the owner got a notification that the car wasn't charging. We walked back and couldn't see what was wrong, but shuffled the car to a different charger (fortunately another one had become free) and that seemed to be fine. Again there were very few non-Tesla chargers, and they were also busy.
I was impressed with the way that the in-car display showed how many chargers there were, what type and how many were free, but of course this could change just as you’re driving up to one, so your planning had better have some slack in it.
After including the two stops (each of which was less than an hour, and apparently cost c.£25 each) we made it to Plymouth in about 6 hours. This was about 90 mins slower than in my diesel although significantly cheaper. The return trip was very similar but fewer chargers were occupied (albeit we were much later in the day) so we were in and out in less than an hour each time, although in my case, I noticed my average speed when I did the same journey was (cough) a shade over 70mph, whereas in the Tesla the following week it was less than 60.
So, all things considered, yes, I can see the case for Teslas, the info you get, the availability of fast chargers etc seems pretty impressive (although not in Plymouth). However, I think my 335d 'feels' better, looks better, cruises faster for longer and costs less overall (but only because it's older) so at the moment I can't see why you'd change, and I certainly wouldn't consider a non-Tesla until the charging infrastructure is wayyy better.
Probably not that far off though, and when an EV 3-Series Touring comes out I'll be having a good look at that.
TL;DR - a long trip in a non-Tesla? Do some planning and allow plenty of spare time.
Edited by FlyingPanda on Wednesday 29th March 18:30
PetrolHeadInRecovery said:
Pooh said:
Have you done many long trips in a Tesla or non-Tesla?
Tesla's aren't only better for long trips because of the supercharger network they are better because of efficiency, range, charging cost, route planning and the energy graphs that give you information about how much range you will have when you arrive, all these things combined make them better for long trips than other EVs and I would never go back to a non-Tesla because I do a lot of long trips.
I think these days you have quite a few faster charging options (10 -> 80%), according to ev-database. Admittedly still pretty high in the efficiency rankings.Tesla's aren't only better for long trips because of the supercharger network they are better because of efficiency, range, charging cost, route planning and the energy graphs that give you information about how much range you will have when you arrive, all these things combined make them better for long trips than other EVs and I would never go back to a non-Tesla because I do a lot of long trips.
Edited by PetrolHeadInRecovery on Wednesday 29th March 16:19
The things I most appreciate are the route planning, energy graph and info on charger availability, they make the whole thing a very low stress experience compared most other EVs.
Pooh said:
It's true that Teslas are not always the fastest at charging but on the last two long trips I have done I have actually stopped for longer than the car needed by the time I got food coffee etc. so I have not found it to be an issue.
The things I most appreciate are the route planning, energy graph and info on charger availability, they make the whole thing a very low stress experience compared most other EVs.
We did 2 'long' trips in my SR+ (small battery) Model 3 last Summer. One to the Isle of Skye and one to the Alps, around 2500 miles in total. The things I most appreciate are the route planning, energy graph and info on charger availability, they make the whole thing a very low stress experience compared most other EVs.
Of all of the stops we made, only once did we have to wait for the car to have enough electrons to get to our next stop. We've stopped every 2 hours in previous ICE cars so the journey times would have been pretty much identical.
PetrolHeadInRecovery said:
I think these days you have quite a few faster charging options (10 -> 80%), according to ev-database. Admittedly still pretty high in the efficiency rankings.
There is a world of difference between paper charging and real world charging. All of the vehicles on the top of that link have 800V charging on board. So to make use of that you need a 350kW charger and there are very few of those in the wild. You also have to hope that if you get onto an Ionity charger that it actually delivers that speed. A lot of Zap-Map comments about their units struggling to deliver more than 80kW or so...Edited by PetrolHeadInRecovery on Wednesday 29th March 16:19
RochdalePioneers said:
PetrolHeadInRecovery said:
I think these days you have quite a few faster charging options (10 -> 80%), according to ev-database. Admittedly still pretty high in the efficiency rankings.
There is a world of difference between paper charging and real world charging. All of the vehicles on the top of that link have 800V charging on board. So to make use of that you need a 350kW charger and there are very few of those in the wild. You also have to hope that if you get onto an Ionity charger that it actually delivers that speed. A lot of Zap-Map comments about their units struggling to deliver more than 80kW or so...Edited by PetrolHeadInRecovery on Wednesday 29th March 16:19
Pretty much equates to 2 hours driving 1 hour of charging
Pooh said:
CheesecakeRunner said:
Whereas I’m deliberately changing my Tesla for a non-Tesla EV. The supercharger Tesla owner advantage is going, rapidly (if you’ll excuse the pun).
16 Tesla stations now open to all makes, and I’ll bet all the rest will be open within the next two years, as they are already in mainland Europe.
Have you done many long trips in a Tesla or non-Tesla? 16 Tesla stations now open to all makes, and I’ll bet all the rest will be open within the next two years, as they are already in mainland Europe.
Tesla's aren't only better for long trips because of the supercharger network they are better because of efficiency, range, charging cost, route planning and the energy graphs that give you information about how much range you will have when you arrive, all these things combined make them better for long trips than other EVs and I would never go back to a non-Tesla because I do a lot of long trips.
In fact better as it has a greater range than my Model 3. As well as an in car navigation system that plans journeys just as well as Tesla do.
cptsideways said:
Once into Scotland there are only three ionity locations Gretna, Glasgow Polmadie and Perth. Good luck getting more than 130kw out of any of them. Most of the charge place Scotland 50kw ones only get you 35kw if they work.
Pretty much equates to 2 hours driving 1 hour of charging
The CP Scotland 50Kw chargers I used on the Isle of Skye all were hitting high 40s when i used them and all 4 worked. Maybe I was lucky?Pretty much equates to 2 hours driving 1 hour of charging
I used one of the FastNED chargers in Hamilton in July. That was ~100Kw when i used it, although I think it was rated at 350kW, 4 out of 6 were in use and I was around 20% SoC. So not hitting the headline numbers.
Maracus said:
cptsideways said:
Once into Scotland there are only three ionity locations Gretna, Glasgow Polmadie and Perth. Good luck getting more than 130kw out of any of them. Most of the charge place Scotland 50kw ones only get you 35kw if they work.
Pretty much equates to 2 hours driving 1 hour of charging
The CP Scotland 50Kw chargers I used on the Isle of Skye all were hitting high 40s when i used them and all 4 worked. Maybe I was lucky?Pretty much equates to 2 hours driving 1 hour of charging
I used one of the FastNED chargers in Hamilton in July. That was ~100Kw when i used it, although I think it was rated at 350kW, 4 out of 6 were in use and I was around 20% SoC. So not hitting the headline numbers.
RochdalePioneers said:
There is a world of difference between paper charging and real world charging. All of the vehicles on the top of that link have 800V charging on board. So to make use of that you need a 350kW charger and there are very few of those in the wild. You also have to hope that if you get onto an Ionity charger that it actually delivers that speed. A lot of Zap-Map comments about their units struggling to deliver more than 80kW or so...
Disclaimer: I have no first-hand experience with the UK charging network. Nevertheless, I'm wondering if lack of battery preconditioning before charging explains at least some of the issues (made that mistake once). Our travels have been limited to the Hague in the West and Sarajevo in the East (starting from Switzerland) 350kW chargers seem to be fairly common and 100kW (and up) ones seem to be everywhere (Bosnia being the exception). Usually, the real-world charging has been quite close to the on-paper one, including cases like this:
CheesecakeRunner said:
Pooh said:
CheesecakeRunner said:
Whereas I’m deliberately changing my Tesla for a non-Tesla EV. The supercharger Tesla owner advantage is going, rapidly (if you’ll excuse the pun).
16 Tesla stations now open to all makes, and I’ll bet all the rest will be open within the next two years, as they are already in mainland Europe.
Have you done many long trips in a Tesla or non-Tesla? 16 Tesla stations now open to all makes, and I’ll bet all the rest will be open within the next two years, as they are already in mainland Europe.
Tesla's aren't only better for long trips because of the supercharger network they are better because of efficiency, range, charging cost, route planning and the energy graphs that give you information about how much range you will have when you arrive, all these things combined make them better for long trips than other EVs and I would never go back to a non-Tesla because I do a lot of long trips.
In fact better as it has a greater range than my Model 3. As well as an in car navigation system that plans journeys just as well as Tesla do.
I wish you luck with whatever car you have chosen
fly said:
I appreciate all the strategies offered above, but your children are obviously more patient than mine. We could cope with the odd 30 minute charge stop at a 100kw charger (taking it from 10% to 80%), especially when I can plan them in advance, but having to queue and/or spend ages hunting for an alternative (probably slow) charger - nope.
What happens when you say to the children, 'this is the way it is, we have to wait here for an hour while the car charges'?Gassing Station | EV and Alternative Fuels | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff