Thinking about EV or Hybrid/PHEV
Discussion
andy43 said:
Had EVs for eight years, great apart from long distance. For 60-odd mile trips they’re a no brainer unless you want fun served with your journey.
Also had petrol alongside electric for long trips and PH-ness apart from two years with a Tesla that you could actually charge when out and about. Park, open flap, plug in, walk away without looking back. Ten seconds. As it should be.
I used a brand new hybrid this week - it couldn’t get up the hills around here in electric mode and the engine kicked in over 20mph anyway - I can’t see the point for all the extra complexity and weight. Noticeable jolts from the drivetrain when it decided it was running out of puff, crap engine note and more jolts through the brake pedal in traffic when it kicked the engine back in because reasons. CVT gearbox was a further kick in the nuts. Not enjoyable in any way shape or form.
PHEV sounds a far better idea but I’ve no experience of them.
I think the charging network is now good enough for all cars to be pretty straightforward to charge en route. The electroverse network has basically unified virtually all chargers into one app and payment system.Also had petrol alongside electric for long trips and PH-ness apart from two years with a Tesla that you could actually charge when out and about. Park, open flap, plug in, walk away without looking back. Ten seconds. As it should be.
I used a brand new hybrid this week - it couldn’t get up the hills around here in electric mode and the engine kicked in over 20mph anyway - I can’t see the point for all the extra complexity and weight. Noticeable jolts from the drivetrain when it decided it was running out of puff, crap engine note and more jolts through the brake pedal in traffic when it kicked the engine back in because reasons. CVT gearbox was a further kick in the nuts. Not enjoyable in any way shape or form.
PHEV sounds a far better idea but I’ve no experience of them.
As for EV being no fun.. just like ICE cars you have to buy a fun one to expect it to be fun to drive! I see you had P100D which is obviously quick in a straight line, but none of the EV's you appear to have owned are meant to be drivers car.
ZesPak said:
Italy has gotten a lot better although the south can be somewhat of a charging dessert (except for a couple of strategically placed Tesla SC), I've had no issues locating chargers the last couple of years.
Can't beat a generous slice of tiramisú while waiting at the Supercharger 
Michael_B said:
ZesPak said:
Italy has gotten a lot better although the south can be somewhat of a charging dessert (except for a couple of strategically placed Tesla SC), I've had no issues locating chargers the last couple of years.
Can't beat a generous slice of tiramisú while waiting at the Supercharger 
Excuse my French. I meant desert, with one S, for further confusion, here's a picture of said desert with two S-es.
clockworks said:
andy43 said:
Had EVs for eight years, great apart from long distance. For 60-odd mile trips they’re a no brainer unless you want fun served with your journey.
Also had petrol alongside electric for long trips and PH-ness apart from two years with a Tesla that you could actually charge when out and about. Park, open flap, plug in, walk away without looking back. Ten seconds. As it should be.
I used a brand new hybrid this week - it couldn’t get up the hills around here in electric mode and the engine kicked in over 20mph anyway - I can’t see the point for all the extra complexity and weight. Noticeable jolts from the drivetrain when it decided it was running out of puff, crap engine note and more jolts through the brake pedal in traffic when it kicked the engine back in because reasons. CVT gearbox was a further kick in the nuts. Not enjoyable in any way shape or form.
PHEV sounds a far better idea but I’ve no experience of them.
What car was that? Mild hybrid I guess?Also had petrol alongside electric for long trips and PH-ness apart from two years with a Tesla that you could actually charge when out and about. Park, open flap, plug in, walk away without looking back. Ten seconds. As it should be.
I used a brand new hybrid this week - it couldn’t get up the hills around here in electric mode and the engine kicked in over 20mph anyway - I can’t see the point for all the extra complexity and weight. Noticeable jolts from the drivetrain when it decided it was running out of puff, crap engine note and more jolts through the brake pedal in traffic when it kicked the engine back in because reasons. CVT gearbox was a further kick in the nuts. Not enjoyable in any way shape or form.
PHEV sounds a far better idea but I’ve no experience of them.
My XC40 plug-in (90bhp electric + 170bhp ICE) is almost seamless in operation, copes with all normal driving in battery mode, and will happily cruise at 70 on electric.
Left in hybrid mode, it's pretty much impossible to tell whether it's running on electric or petrol once doing over 30mph, apart from having a lot more power on tap - unless I look at the instrument panel or turn the radio off.
The only 2 quirks are the brake pedal response as it moves from regen braking to friction braking, and fact that it only uses 2 of the auto gears in electric mode - takes a second to change into higher gear at just under 60mph.
TheDeuce said:
andy43 said:
Had EVs for eight years, great apart from long distance. For 60-odd mile trips they’re a no brainer unless you want fun served with your journey.
Also had petrol alongside electric for long trips and PH-ness apart from two years with a Tesla that you could actually charge when out and about. Park, open flap, plug in, walk away without looking back. Ten seconds. As it should be.
I used a brand new hybrid this week - it couldn’t get up the hills around here in electric mode and the engine kicked in over 20mph anyway - I can’t see the point for all the extra complexity and weight. Noticeable jolts from the drivetrain when it decided it was running out of puff, crap engine note and more jolts through the brake pedal in traffic when it kicked the engine back in because reasons. CVT gearbox was a further kick in the nuts. Not enjoyable in any way shape or form.
PHEV sounds a far better idea but I’ve no experience of them.
I think the charging network is now good enough for all cars to be pretty straightforward to charge en route. The electroverse network has basically unified virtually all chargers into one app and payment system.Also had petrol alongside electric for long trips and PH-ness apart from two years with a Tesla that you could actually charge when out and about. Park, open flap, plug in, walk away without looking back. Ten seconds. As it should be.
I used a brand new hybrid this week - it couldn’t get up the hills around here in electric mode and the engine kicked in over 20mph anyway - I can’t see the point for all the extra complexity and weight. Noticeable jolts from the drivetrain when it decided it was running out of puff, crap engine note and more jolts through the brake pedal in traffic when it kicked the engine back in because reasons. CVT gearbox was a further kick in the nuts. Not enjoyable in any way shape or form.
PHEV sounds a far better idea but I’ve no experience of them.
As for EV being no fun.. just like ICE cars you have to buy a fun one to expect it to be fun to drive! I see you had P100D which is obviously quick in a straight line, but none of the EV's you appear to have owned are meant to be drivers car.
Current Honda E is genuinely fun for an EV - rear wheel drive, chassis is good, and it's got a sport mode
It's the 'for an EV' caveat that knackers the theory though - our 60 bhp Skoda Citigo is more fun overall.
What EVs for the drivers are there? Taycan presumably but I can't think of anything else and the repair bills on those is terrifying.
andy43 said:
TheDeuce said:
andy43 said:
Had EVs for eight years, great apart from long distance. For 60-odd mile trips they’re a no brainer unless you want fun served with your journey.
Also had petrol alongside electric for long trips and PH-ness apart from two years with a Tesla that you could actually charge when out and about. Park, open flap, plug in, walk away without looking back. Ten seconds. As it should be.
I used a brand new hybrid this week - it couldn’t get up the hills around here in electric mode and the engine kicked in over 20mph anyway - I can’t see the point for all the extra complexity and weight. Noticeable jolts from the drivetrain when it decided it was running out of puff, crap engine note and more jolts through the brake pedal in traffic when it kicked the engine back in because reasons. CVT gearbox was a further kick in the nuts. Not enjoyable in any way shape or form.
PHEV sounds a far better idea but I’ve no experience of them.
I think the charging network is now good enough for all cars to be pretty straightforward to charge en route. The electroverse network has basically unified virtually all chargers into one app and payment system.Also had petrol alongside electric for long trips and PH-ness apart from two years with a Tesla that you could actually charge when out and about. Park, open flap, plug in, walk away without looking back. Ten seconds. As it should be.
I used a brand new hybrid this week - it couldn’t get up the hills around here in electric mode and the engine kicked in over 20mph anyway - I can’t see the point for all the extra complexity and weight. Noticeable jolts from the drivetrain when it decided it was running out of puff, crap engine note and more jolts through the brake pedal in traffic when it kicked the engine back in because reasons. CVT gearbox was a further kick in the nuts. Not enjoyable in any way shape or form.
PHEV sounds a far better idea but I’ve no experience of them.
As for EV being no fun.. just like ICE cars you have to buy a fun one to expect it to be fun to drive! I see you had P100D which is obviously quick in a straight line, but none of the EV's you appear to have owned are meant to be drivers car.
Current Honda E is genuinely fun for an EV - rear wheel drive, chassis is good, and it's got a sport mode
It's the 'for an EV' caveat that knackers the theory though - our 60 bhp Skoda Citigo is more fun overall.
What EVs for the drivers are there? Taycan presumably but I can't think of anything else and the repair bills on those is terrifying.
My iPace was actually the more dynamic feeling car, they're crazy good - you would never believe a heavy SUV could handle so well - I would have been impossible to convince myself had I not driven one. It really does show just how much further a legacy sports car manufacturer is capable of taking driving feel than the Tesla's I have driven. The iPace is a sublime effort by Jag, that's a very widely held view by those that have driven one.
King of EV 'fun' and dynamic driving is clearly they Taycan, unless we're to include Rimac etc at the crazy money end of the spectrum.
I expect the first BMW's on their upcoming dedicated new EV platform will be far better than my current i4 and far better than what we have seen from VAG so far too - apart from the Taycan derived e-tron GT, a used one of those is an attractive proposition...
On the theme of 'thinking about' an EV...
I just got this offer by email, anyone fancy a random EV pickup truck for absolute peanuts to try an EV?
https://www.appliedleasing.co.uk/van-leasing/maxus...
No idea why it's so cheap, but it's hard to argue with the value even f it's a bit crap!
I just got this offer by email, anyone fancy a random EV pickup truck for absolute peanuts to try an EV?
https://www.appliedleasing.co.uk/van-leasing/maxus...
No idea why it's so cheap, but it's hard to argue with the value even f it's a bit crap!
clockworks said:
I've had my 2021 XC40 T5 PHEV for a couple of months now. I was sceptical about getting a PHEV, but it has won me over.
The vast majority of my journeys are 20 miles or less, so done purely in electric mode. Costs me less than 4p a mile (Octopus Go and granny charger).
50 mile journeys, I use the "battery hold" function in Hybrid mode on NSL A roads, and let the car use the battery for the slower-speed stuff. With a bit of restraint, I can do 50 miles at an indicated 70mpg, plus 80p of electric. Obviously longer journeys will be worse than that, but even 40mpg (running purely on petrol) on a run isn't bad for a mid-size SUV with around 260bhp.
I've had a couple of diesel SUVs in the past (Kia Sportage and VW Touareg), and both of those struggled to get 40mpg on a 70 mile run.
I probably won't save on fuel what I paid extra for the car over a normal diesel version, but I wanted to dip my toe into electric motoring.
I'm just about to give back the same car after 3 years (and swap for an EV), and my experience mirrors this.The vast majority of my journeys are 20 miles or less, so done purely in electric mode. Costs me less than 4p a mile (Octopus Go and granny charger).
50 mile journeys, I use the "battery hold" function in Hybrid mode on NSL A roads, and let the car use the battery for the slower-speed stuff. With a bit of restraint, I can do 50 miles at an indicated 70mpg, plus 80p of electric. Obviously longer journeys will be worse than that, but even 40mpg (running purely on petrol) on a run isn't bad for a mid-size SUV with around 260bhp.
I've had a couple of diesel SUVs in the past (Kia Sportage and VW Touareg), and both of those struggled to get 40mpg on a 70 mile run.
I probably won't save on fuel what I paid extra for the car over a normal diesel version, but I wanted to dip my toe into electric motoring.
On a 70mph motorway run with a full battery in 'Hold' mode, high-30s to 40mpg is easy. If I'm charging the battery on the same run in 'Charge' mode, that will drop to low-30s. If I try to cruise at 80mph, the economy takes a big hit (moreso if I'm charging the battery).
Around town, 30 miles on EV only in 'Pure' mode is pretty easily achievable.
It seats 4 adults and has 450L of well-shaped boot space too. A truly excellent car. If the C40/XC40 EVs weren't so expensive, I wouldn't be replacing it with a Tesla.
I've had a X5 45e delivered today as a courtesy car whilst mine is being fixed, lovely thing, the EV step off is great silently smoothing down the road, feels really sharp in sport mode with the engine + EV power, fantastic thing really.
Need to charge it up though as it's down to 10 miles now on EV not sure the cables are long enough to charge from a 3 pin at home, I might brave the local charging station will have to read up on options as I think these are not fast chargers so not sure how that all works.
Wills2 said:
I've had a X5 45e delivered today as a courtesy car whilst mine is being fixed, lovely thing, the EV step off is great silently smoothing down the road, feels really sharp in sport mode with the engine + EV power, fantastic thing really.
Need to charge it up though as it's down to 10 miles now on EV not sure the cables are long enough to charge from a 3 pin at home, I might brave the local charging station will have to read up on options as I think these are not fast chargers so not sure how that all works.
How many miles did you achieve on a full battery?Need to charge it up though as it's down to 10 miles now on EV not sure the cables are long enough to charge from a 3 pin at home, I might brave the local charging station will have to read up on options as I think these are not fast chargers so not sure how that all works.
325iMSport said:
How many miles did you achieve on a full battery?
Not sure as I just dropped the delivery man at the station and went for a quick familiarity drive to the shops, I just noticed when I got back that the car was showing around 10 miles of EV left, I was swapping between modes once out of town, it seemed to start and set off in EV mode as a default hence me saying it was very smooth on step off and in the town traffic where I guess it was on EV power. It might not have been fully charged when it arrived, It's a slow charger so I'll need to try and see if I have enough on the cable as I won't be sitting at a public charger for hours to fill it, if I can then I'll see how much it'll do and report back
Wife’s Kuga Phev is quite impressive
In the 4 months of ownership, 280 mpg, as most journeys full electric
She put £50 of petrol in it back in October, 180 miles left
Yesterday went to sister in laws, 40 mile round trip into London Ulez.
Switched to petrol for a bit in the motorway home, then back to battery when close to home
In the warmer weather, stop start journeys, was getting genuine 40 miles EV
When colder & motorway, closer to 30
I’ll probably go full EV when my diesel car expires. So the Phev could get used more for trips up north.
I like the look of the new Skoda Superb Phev (60 mile range). But no point in having 2. Plus I have an itch to get the new Tesla 3 ‘highland’ , which is cheaper than the Skoda too!
In the 4 months of ownership, 280 mpg, as most journeys full electric
She put £50 of petrol in it back in October, 180 miles left
Yesterday went to sister in laws, 40 mile round trip into London Ulez.
Switched to petrol for a bit in the motorway home, then back to battery when close to home
In the warmer weather, stop start journeys, was getting genuine 40 miles EV
When colder & motorway, closer to 30
I’ll probably go full EV when my diesel car expires. So the Phev could get used more for trips up north.
I like the look of the new Skoda Superb Phev (60 mile range). But no point in having 2. Plus I have an itch to get the new Tesla 3 ‘highland’ , which is cheaper than the Skoda too!
Wills2 said:
The 45e has a battery fault apparently so they are swapping it for a 50e tomorrow (drives fine) however it's not the most economical thing driving to the gym in sport mode but in no way hooning as the weather is awful, over the moors 18 miles round trip and 19mpg..ouch.
I borrowed a 50e back in the summer and thought it was excellent. I haven't compared one directly to the 45e but it has quite a bit more power and battery capacity. It seemed you could genuinely get 50 miles or so electric only and that it would keep up with traffic adequately in the process.theboss said:
Wills2 said:
The 45e has a battery fault apparently so they are swapping it for a 50e tomorrow (drives fine) however it's not the most economical thing driving to the gym in sport mode but in no way hooning as the weather is awful, over the moors 18 miles round trip and 19mpg..ouch.
I borrowed a 50e back in the summer and thought it was excellent. I haven't compared one directly to the 45e but it has quite a bit more power and battery capacity. It seemed you could genuinely get 50 miles or so electric only and that it would keep up with traffic adequately in the process.C70R said:
clockworks said:
I've had my 2021 XC40 T5 PHEV for a couple of months now. I was sceptical about getting a PHEV, but it has won me over.
The vast majority of my journeys are 20 miles or less, so done purely in electric mode. Costs me less than 4p a mile (Octopus Go and granny charger).
50 mile journeys, I use the "battery hold" function in Hybrid mode on NSL A roads, and let the car use the battery for the slower-speed stuff. With a bit of restraint, I can do 50 miles at an indicated 70mpg, plus 80p of electric. Obviously longer journeys will be worse than that, but even 40mpg (running purely on petrol) on a run isn't bad for a mid-size SUV with around 260bhp.
I've had a couple of diesel SUVs in the past (Kia Sportage and VW Touareg), and both of those struggled to get 40mpg on a 70 mile run.
I probably won't save on fuel what I paid extra for the car over a normal diesel version, but I wanted to dip my toe into electric motoring.
I'm just about to give back the same car after 3 years (and swap for an EV), and my experience mirrors this.The vast majority of my journeys are 20 miles or less, so done purely in electric mode. Costs me less than 4p a mile (Octopus Go and granny charger).
50 mile journeys, I use the "battery hold" function in Hybrid mode on NSL A roads, and let the car use the battery for the slower-speed stuff. With a bit of restraint, I can do 50 miles at an indicated 70mpg, plus 80p of electric. Obviously longer journeys will be worse than that, but even 40mpg (running purely on petrol) on a run isn't bad for a mid-size SUV with around 260bhp.
I've had a couple of diesel SUVs in the past (Kia Sportage and VW Touareg), and both of those struggled to get 40mpg on a 70 mile run.
I probably won't save on fuel what I paid extra for the car over a normal diesel version, but I wanted to dip my toe into electric motoring.
On a 70mph motorway run with a full battery in 'Hold' mode, high-30s to 40mpg is easy. If I'm charging the battery on the same run in 'Charge' mode, that will drop to low-30s. If I try to cruise at 80mph, the economy takes a big hit (moreso if I'm charging the battery).
Around town, 30 miles on EV only in 'Pure' mode is pretty easily achievable.
It seats 4 adults and has 450L of well-shaped boot space too. A truly excellent car. If the C40/XC40 EVs weren't so expensive, I wouldn't be replacing it with a Tesla.
Really quite astonishing stuff from an 1800kg car with a 1.5L engine.
Edited by C70R on Friday 5th January 10:11
Similar situation here but reading this thread I think I know the answer. But interested in thoughts.
Currently have a diesel Passat but the Edinburgh ULEZ means it needs to be changed.
Could spend £25k on a used Passat GTE to replace it. Or spend £30k ish on an Audi Q4 eTron 40. Or an ID3 but that doesn’t appeal to me that much.
Journeys in the week under 30 miles mostly. Often much less. 2 kids so journeys are school runs and weekend sports. Edinburgh isn’t very big.
I do have an E92 M3 if ever we really need a (very inefficient) ICE but I try and keep that on very low miles so not keen to use it for rare longer trips. Wife’s parents recently moved local so 250 mile round trip to see them a thing of the past.
I’m guessing collective advice will be EV all day long!
Currently have a diesel Passat but the Edinburgh ULEZ means it needs to be changed.
Could spend £25k on a used Passat GTE to replace it. Or spend £30k ish on an Audi Q4 eTron 40. Or an ID3 but that doesn’t appeal to me that much.
Journeys in the week under 30 miles mostly. Often much less. 2 kids so journeys are school runs and weekend sports. Edinburgh isn’t very big.
I do have an E92 M3 if ever we really need a (very inefficient) ICE but I try and keep that on very low miles so not keen to use it for rare longer trips. Wife’s parents recently moved local so 250 mile round trip to see them a thing of the past.
I’m guessing collective advice will be EV all day long!
Arranguez said:
Similar situation here but reading this thread I think I know the answer. But interested in thoughts.
Currently have a diesel Passat but the Edinburgh ULEZ means it needs to be changed.
Could spend £25k on a used Passat GTE to replace it. Or spend £30k ish on an Audi Q4 eTron 40. Or an ID3 but that doesn’t appeal to me that much.
Journeys in the week under 30 miles mostly. Often much less. 2 kids so journeys are school runs and weekend sports. Edinburgh isn’t very big.
I do have an E92 M3 if ever we really need a (very inefficient) ICE but I try and keep that on very low miles so not keen to use it for rare longer trips. Wife’s parents recently moved local so 250 mile round trip to see them a thing of the past.
I’m guessing collective advice will be EV all day long!
I think you've guessed right. Especially given you've established you'll never exceed the range of any decent EV and also the ULEZ... Currently have a diesel Passat but the Edinburgh ULEZ means it needs to be changed.
Could spend £25k on a used Passat GTE to replace it. Or spend £30k ish on an Audi Q4 eTron 40. Or an ID3 but that doesn’t appeal to me that much.
Journeys in the week under 30 miles mostly. Often much less. 2 kids so journeys are school runs and weekend sports. Edinburgh isn’t very big.
I do have an E92 M3 if ever we really need a (very inefficient) ICE but I try and keep that on very low miles so not keen to use it for rare longer trips. Wife’s parents recently moved local so 250 mile round trip to see them a thing of the past.
I’m guessing collective advice will be EV all day long!
Why would you not?
As an aside I work in Leith often, normally I travel up to Edinburgh by train, it always amazes me how few cars there are on the roads in and around Edinburgh. I'm guessing the ULEZ genuinely deterred the average motorist?? Also, you have a tram at last... Took a while but it's pretty efficient now it's done. Makes it a doddle to get from the shore into town.
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