Taycan starting to look like a bargain
Discussion
Nomme de Plum said:
If you want the precise data I suggest you look as there is thread where an ICE owner that posted these figures for the car he bought some years before and sold in 2022. I found it interesting as it took me by surprise.
Best I can find is this from 2021 in the "ludicrous depreciation" thread.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
ACCYSTAN said:
Heard about one case of mass depreciation this week
Old boy purchases a brand new Fiat 500x lounge (fairly high spec) for £22k back in Dec.
Sadly has issues, can no longer drive.
Family sell the car early April for £14,700 with 600 odd miles on it.
£7,300 depreciation in 4 months.
Old boy purchases a brand new Fiat 500x lounge (fairly high spec) for £22k back in Dec.
Sadly has issues, can no longer drive.
Family sell the car early April for £14,700 with 600 odd miles on it.
£7,300 depreciation in 4 months.
Not £27K
Not £13K
Not delivery mileage.
Nomme de Plum said:
zalrak said:
You have an a very skewed idea of depreciation if you think 21% is significant. 
There isn’t a natural buyer for a used Taycan.
While around 50% of new cars are aquired via some kind of fleet scheme (and has been the case for decades) the percentage if BEVs being aquired in this manner is closer to 90%.
The cheap end of the used BEV market will find used buyers, but the market is much smaller for more expensive options. Without the tax benefits they don’t make much sense compared to ICE.
enby said:
Was in my local OPC at the weekend and heard the tale of woe on used Taycans.
Fella ordered a Cross Turismo Turbo S, £160k list.
Chopped it in 18k miles later for £68k.
That is pain at every level.
I guess it depends on how long it took to cover 18k. Not good though.Fella ordered a Cross Turismo Turbo S, £160k list.
Chopped it in 18k miles later for £68k.
That is pain at every level.
The Maybach isn't great either, but an interesting list here, and not all expensive cars either.
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars-vans/94305...
silentbrown said:
Not £27K
Not £13K
Not delivery mileage.
It really doesn't matter whether you take mine and his post as genuine or not. I have no reason to disbelieve the poster as he gave quite a bit of detail. Bit unfortunate that you cannot do the same.
survivalist said:
The cheap end of the used BEV market will find used buyers, but the market is much smaller for more expensive options. Without the tax benefits they don’t make much sense compared to ICE.
It depends what you mean by the cheap end of the market, but my four door practical 3 year old car at sub £30k that will get to 60 in c.4 secs made sense to me compared to ICE alternatives. I guess for the same cash you could get a C43 AMG with more miles and 100 bhp less, ignoring the fuel costs. off_again said:
Here in the US, there are a lot of Taycan's available, even at main dealers, which suggests a bit of an oversupply. Values have been hit, but not as bad as they are in the UK it seems. I would also note that they seem a little cheaper here too, seems like the RHD tax is at play.
I see a couple of things that impact the value - firstly, 4 door Porsche models have never been a good place to put your money, it is a shrinking market worldwide. Expensive 4 door cars in general aren't a good purchase either, just look at the BMW 7 series!
Next, the fear of EV's is real and a lot of people are worried. Getting an expensive one is great, but once it gets to the warranty period, I can see a lot of people dumping them - again impacting the values.
Finally, not a lot of people actually buy their Porsche cars. A lot of people will just use rotating credit or leases. It helps to have confidence in the model refresh cycle for Porsche too. You know that in 2-3 years a refresh model will be available, or if you have a good couple of years, you can drop a little extra in for the next finance package and go for a 911 or something. That means a lot of Taycan's will be hitting the market at 2 or 3 year intervals with people who are 'motivated' to get the next model.
However, it does mean that they are becoming relatively affordable, which is nice. Maybe in a year or two....
This ^^^^I see a couple of things that impact the value - firstly, 4 door Porsche models have never been a good place to put your money, it is a shrinking market worldwide. Expensive 4 door cars in general aren't a good purchase either, just look at the BMW 7 series!
Next, the fear of EV's is real and a lot of people are worried. Getting an expensive one is great, but once it gets to the warranty period, I can see a lot of people dumping them - again impacting the values.
Finally, not a lot of people actually buy their Porsche cars. A lot of people will just use rotating credit or leases. It helps to have confidence in the model refresh cycle for Porsche too. You know that in 2-3 years a refresh model will be available, or if you have a good couple of years, you can drop a little extra in for the next finance package and go for a 911 or something. That means a lot of Taycan's will be hitting the market at 2 or 3 year intervals with people who are 'motivated' to get the next model.
However, it does mean that they are becoming relatively affordable, which is nice. Maybe in a year or two....
Same in the UK. The new Taycan, when launched, had a big wow factor and zero company car tax and so it was an awesome car for well off cc drivers. However, as with the US, most people buying larger cars buy SUVs so when they came off lease dealers were/are stuck with a load of big saloons that no-one really wants these days. This is compounded by a bit of a backlash towards Evs generally at the moment.
In one social media post the finance on the cheapest £50k Taycan, over 2 yrs, showed a residual of £30k. You'd have to really love a Taycan to consider one at the moment.
silentbrown said:
Nomme de Plum said:
If you want the precise data I suggest you look as there is thread where an ICE owner that posted these figures for the car he bought some years before and sold in 2022. I found it interesting as it took me by surprise.
Best I can find is this from 2021 in the "ludicrous depreciation" thread.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
ACCYSTAN said:
Heard about one case of mass depreciation this week
Old boy purchases a brand new Fiat 500x lounge (fairly high spec) for £22k back in Dec.
Sadly has issues, can no longer drive.
Family sell the car early April for £14,700 with 600 odd miles on it.
£7,300 depreciation in 4 months.
Old boy purchases a brand new Fiat 500x lounge (fairly high spec) for £22k back in Dec.
Sadly has issues, can no longer drive.
Family sell the car early April for £14,700 with 600 odd miles on it.
£7,300 depreciation in 4 months.
Not £27K
Not £13K
Not delivery mileage.
"It was a fortunate occurrence. I had test drove the top spec Cross Plus with 18 inch wheels about 9 months before and didnt like it, the ride was too firm, so decided the best alternative was an upspeeced Cross version on 17's.
Then the biggest car supermarket motor***** started getting them in July/ Aug 2017. The backstory was they were all registed late dec 2016 at a main dealer in Reading, then were probably overpriced so just sat. They must have offloaded 20-30 to Motor*****, all either blue, green or red that I saw. They were advertised as standard spec but you could see from the pics they werent, i could tell they had the £400 comfort pack, inc keyless, armrest, and elec lumbar. Then when i saw it in the flesh it also had the £150 spare wheel. On the way home after driving it I also noticed it has the £950 safety pack, lol.....blind spot detection and all that. I priced the car up at the time and with the extras it was exactly £27k OTR.
I bit at £12,999 plus £99 admin fee, plus £150 road tax, £13,248 total.
When I came to sell I messed up by putting it on Ebay at £11,999, didnt have much interest so changed to autotrader gradually dropping the price about £250 a week. Ended up selling to a local kinda webuyanycar type place for £10,250, and about 15 mins after agreeing the deal I had a call from a lady on autotrader offering £500 more than this. I had to honour the deal I had. So ended up selling for £10,250.
I agree that the market was inflated a bit at the time of selling.
A great outcome. After 3 gremlins in the first 6 months the car ran like clockwork. Admittedly a noisy clock though. smile"
From here on Monday:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
and here
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Edited by Nomme de Plum on Thursday 8th February 10:24
Nomme de Plum said:
It was a weeks or ago not 2 years ago that the chap posted.
It really doesn't matter whether you take mine and his post as genuine or not. I have no reason to disbelieve the poster as he gave quite a bit of detail. Bit unfortunate that you cannot do the same.
Like you, I was very surprised at the figures so not unreasonable to look for the source - Which I've now found, although the quoting has gone awry.It really doesn't matter whether you take mine and his post as genuine or not. I have no reason to disbelieve the poster as he gave quite a bit of detail. Bit unfortunate that you cannot do the same.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
500x said:
Then the biggest car supermarket motor***** started getting them in July/ Aug 2017. The backstory was they were all registed late dec 2016 at a main dealer in Reading, then were probably overpriced so just sat. ... On the way home after driving it I also noticed it has the £950 safety pack, lol.....blind spot detection and all that. I priced the car up at the time and with the extras it was exactly £27k OTR.
I bit at £12,999 plus £99 admin fee, plus £150 road tax, £13,248 total.
Porsches are always assumed to have very low depreciation and high residuals. With the Taycan it seems that isn't the case.I bit at £12,999 plus £99 admin fee, plus £150 road tax, £13,248 total.
silentbrown said:
Porsches are always assumed to have very low depreciation and high residuals. With the Taycan it seems that isn't the case.
I will agree to the extent if one trades in to buy another as Porsche keep the market inflated but if you take your Porsche to them as a pure buy back you will get quite a shock. As i said a mate of mine lost £25K in just a few months on a £100K 911 (991), when he landed a contract in the ME. It was only during Covid that the market got silly.
Nomme de Plum said:
silentbrown said:
Porsches are always assumed to have very low depreciation and high residuals. With the Taycan it seems that isn't the case.
I will agree to the extent if one trades in to buy another as Porsche keep the market inflated but if you take your Porsche to them as a pure buy back you will get quite a shock. As i said a mate of mine lost £25K in just a few months on a £100K 911 (991), when he landed a contract in the ME. It was only during Covid that the market got silly.
Electric cars from sports car manufacturers aren't immune from general market conditions. Elon Musk has had to cut back his Tesla pricing and there are many cheaper electrics from the far east that get good reviews. I've been watching the launch of Lotus Eletre and the number of "delivery miles" cars currently advertised between £100,000 and £130,000. Those are big prices for the first car of a new type from this manufacturer and the car's a lot more expensive than anything they've sold before. I can't help thinking depreciation may be ferocious.
Panamax said:
Electric cars from sports car manufacturers aren't immune from general market conditions. Elon Musk has had to cut back his Tesla pricing and there are many cheaper electrics from the far east that get good reviews. I've been watching the launch of Lotus Eletre and the number of "delivery miles" cars currently advertised between £100,000 and £130,000. Those are big prices for the first car of a new type from this manufacturer and the car's a lot more expensive than anything they've sold before. I can't help thinking depreciation may be ferocious.
I think you are spot on. It was brave of Porsche to introduce a ground up EV relatively early inEV development generally. Maybe a Cayenne version as a big SuV would have been an easier place to start. Apparently the 2025 version is a very significant improvement but I suspect out is the Macan which will attract people more when it is finally in the showrooms. As it will be private buyers who will be the customers for V1 Taycan the current economic situation with higher borrowing will undoubtedly impact residual values. Great for cash buyers though.
Nomme de Plum said:
I think you are spot on. It was brave of Porsche to introduce a ground up EV relatively early inEV development generally. Maybe a Cayenne version as a big SuV would have been an easier place to start. Apparently the 2025 version is a very significant improvement...
It's irrelevant really, It's still essentially the same car and not an SUV.Panamax said:
Electric cars from sports car manufacturers aren't immune from general market conditions. Elon Musk has had to cut back his Tesla pricing and there are many cheaper electrics from the far east that get good reviews. I've been watching the launch of Lotus Eletre and the number of "delivery miles" cars currently advertised between £100,000 and £130,000. Those are big prices for the first car of a new type from this manufacturer and the car's a lot more expensive than anything they've sold before. I can't help thinking depreciation may be ferocious.
Yep, I think that unless you buying in that world regularly, the level of depreciation of £100k+ cars of any sort can be eye-watering. Most Eletres will be leased so it'll be interesting to see how they get on 2-3 years in the future. Same as the Taycan I'd assumeFrimley111R said:
....
In one social media post the finance on the cheapest £50k Taycan, over 2 yrs, showed a residual of £30k. You'd have to really love a Taycan to consider one at the moment.
It depends what sort of car we're talking.In one social media post the finance on the cheapest £50k Taycan, over 2 yrs, showed a residual of £30k. You'd have to really love a Taycan to consider one at the moment.
The very cheapest Taycan will be pushing 4yrs old now. And will likely be one of the lower models with not much in the way of options. So you'd be looking at an original buy price of, what, £90k?
33% residual at 6yrs old? And then flattening at that point I suspect. Dependent on battery longevity as they approach warranty expiry
andy43 said:
Harry Metcalfe has just done an interesting video on EVs and the reasons why noones buying.
730 Taycans on autotrader this morning. Just checked again - 742 now. ETA of those 54 are brand new 23/24 cars.
'arry says:730 Taycans on autotrader this morning. Just checked again - 742 now. ETA of those 54 are brand new 23/24 cars.
Edited by andy43 on Thursday 8th February 19:54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZysvgm2_Aw
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