Company car list just gone 100% electric

[TeaNoSugar]

We have a company car list that is a mix of all fuels but according to the fleet manager nobody has ordered anything other than BEV or PHEV since the new rules came out a few years ago. What I don’t understand is that they’re so expensive.

For example - the highest monthly price I’m allowed is £700pcm, but for that I can have the following cars (a few examples):

Megane E-Tech hatch Iconic - £699.40pcm
Vaux Corsa Elec - £699.20pcm
Cupra Born V3 60kwh - £696pcm
Tesla MY - £685pcm

To me those seem like insane prices. Considering my wife’s Kia e-Niro on a private lease costs us £245pcm for 10,000 miles pa.

[andburg]

TeaNoSugar said:

We have a company car list that is a mix of all fuels but according to the fleet manager nobody has ordered anything other than BEV or PHEV since the new rules came out a few years ago. What I don’t understand is that they’re so expensive.

For example - the highest monthly price I’m allowed is £700pcm, but for that I can have the following cars (a few examples):

Megane E-Tech hatch Iconic - £699.40pcm
Vaux Corsa Elec - £699.20pcm
Cupra Born V3 60kwh - £696pcm
Tesla MY - £685pcm

To me those seem like insane prices. Considering my wife’s Kia e-Niro on a private lease costs us £245pcm for 10,000 miles pa.

thats 10k miles PA with a desposit? without servicing, without breakdown, without a replacement vehicle if it breaks down, without tyres and other consumables its not comparing apples with apples

you also have to consider the price shown to you may not be the price paid by your employer, they may have discounts applied to those rates.

[Evanivitch]

TeaNoSugar said:

We have a company car list that is a mix of all fuels but according to the fleet manager nobody has ordered anything other than BEV or PHEV since the new rules came out a few years ago. What I don’t understand is that they’re so expensive.

For example - the highest monthly price I’m allowed is £700pcm, but for that I can have the following cars (a few examples):

Megane E-Tech hatch Iconic - £699.40pcm
Vaux Corsa Elec - £699.20pcm
Cupra Born V3 60kwh - £696pcm
Tesla MY - £685pcm

To me those seem like insane prices. Considering my wife’s Kia e-Niro on a private lease costs us £245pcm for 10,000 miles pa.

You're not comparing like with like.

That said, looks like your provider is taking the Michael if the Corsa is more than the Model Y.

[TheDeuce]

Evanivitch said:

TeaNoSugar said:

We have a company car list that is a mix of all fuels but according to the fleet manager nobody has ordered anything other than BEV or PHEV since the new rules came out a few years ago. What I don’t understand is that they’re so expensive.

For example - the highest monthly price I’m allowed is £700pcm, but for that I can have the following cars (a few examples):

Megane E-Tech hatch Iconic - £699.40pcm
Vaux Corsa Elec - £699.20pcm
Cupra Born V3 60kwh - £696pcm
Tesla MY - £685pcm

To me those seem like insane prices. Considering my wife’s Kia e-Niro on a private lease costs us £245pcm for 10,000 miles pa.

You're not comparing like with like.

That said, looks like your provider is taking the Michael if the Corsa is more than the Model Y.

I agree. They are taking the piss.. Nonetheless, the Tesla MY once tax is accounted for is more like a £300-350 pm net cost to the employee, which as a fully expensed car with maintenance and tax (even if not electricity paid for) is at least as cheap as the Kia e-niro on the private lease, also arguably a better car.

So it's a crap deal but still a sensible deal for most employees.

[TeaNoSugar]

andburg said:

TeaNoSugar said:

We have a company car list that is a mix of all fuels but according to the fleet manager nobody has ordered anything other than BEV or PHEV since the new rules came out a few years ago. What I don’t understand is that they’re so expensive.

For example - the highest monthly price I’m allowed is £700pcm, but for that I can have the following cars (a few examples):

Megane E-Tech hatch Iconic - £699.40pcm
Vaux Corsa Elec - £699.20pcm
Cupra Born V3 60kwh - £696pcm
Tesla MY - £685pcm

To me those seem like insane prices. Considering my wife’s Kia e-Niro on a private lease costs us £245pcm for 10,000 miles pa.

thats 10k miles PA with a desposit? without servicing, without breakdown, without a replacement vehicle if it breaks down, without tyres and other consumables its not comparing apples with apples

you also have to consider the price shown to you may not be the price paid by your employer, they may have discounts applied to those rates.

Yeah I get that it’s not a straight comparison, but it’s nearly 3x the price, and the company car prices are meant to be ex VAT. I have a feeling that our company has opted for a ridiculously high annual mileage so they don’t get stung for excess fees at the end. Which is annoying as I need about 15,000 miles/yr, but I suspect they’re priced on 25k or more. I mean a Corsa electric for nearly £700pcm? No thanks. Strangely enough they do a Tesla 3 LR for about £640 which seems ok (relatively).

[TeaNoSugar]

TheDeuce said:

I agree. They are taking the piss.. Nonetheless, the Tesla MY once tax is accounted for is more like a £300-350 pm net cost to the employee, which as a fully expensed car with maintenance and tax (even if not electricity paid for) is at least as cheap as the Kia e-niro on the private lease, also arguably a better car.

So it's a crap deal but still a sensible deal for most employees.

Yes I’ve just done some sums - I think you’re right. Currently I get a £400 cash allowance but obviously that’s right on the top of my earnings so gets the higher tax rate, and my car insurance renewals are looking horrific a the moment. Maybe time to opt in and get the Tesla 3 or Y they have on the list.

[TheDeuce]

TeaNoSugar said:

TheDeuce said:

I agree. They are taking the piss.. Nonetheless, the Tesla MY once tax is accounted for is more like a £300-350 pm net cost to the employee, which as a fully expensed car with maintenance and tax (even if not electricity paid for) is at least as cheap as the Kia e-niro on the private lease, also arguably a better car.

So it's a crap deal but still a sensible deal for most employees.

Yes I’ve just done some sums - I think you’re right. Currently I get a £400 cash allowance but obviously that’s right on the top of my earnings so gets the higher tax rate, and my car insurance renewals are looking horrific a the moment. Maybe time to opt in and get the Tesla 3 or Y they have on the list.

Quite possibly - it sounds like it's a no brainer tbh, although double check the sums first.

Is this good news? Would you welcome a Tesla as a new car?

[JQ]

TeaNoSugar said:

Considering my wife’s Kia e-Niro on a private lease costs us £245pcm for 10,000 miles pa.

A Kia e-Niro currently costs £500pcm for 10,000 miles pa on a private lease.

https://www.leaseloco.com/car-leasing/kia/niro-ev/...

[TeaNoSugar]

TheDeuce said:

Quite possibly - it sounds like it's a no brainer tbh, although double check the sums first.

Is this good news? Would you welcome a Tesla as a new car?

I don’t know - never driven one. I imagine they’re pretty decent to drive. I’m alright with the big screen stuff and I understand Tesla do the User Interface better than most. And they’re fairly nippy too. Starting to look a bit long in the tooth but I don’t mind. If it makes financial sense I’ll do it. It would mean 2 EVs and no ICE cars in the household. Still I imagine I’ll get around 280-300miles from a M3 LR would I? We already have a 7kW charger at home.

[TeaNoSugar]

JQ said:

A Kia e-Niro currently costs £500pcm for 10,000 miles pa on a private lease.

https://www.leaseloco.com/car-leasing/kia/niro-ev/...

Yeah I know - the point I was making (badly) is that prices are so expensive now. Her deal was from a couple of years back and she’s still on that deal. I can’t see why prices have gone up by 100% from what she got to current e-Niro price for the same mileage basis. It just seems crazy.

[TheDeuce]

TeaNoSugar said:

TheDeuce said:

Quite possibly - it sounds like it's a no brainer tbh, although double check the sums first.

Is this good news? Would you welcome a Tesla as a new car?

I don’t know - never driven one. I imagine they’re pretty decent to drive. I’m alright with the big screen stuff and I understand Tesla do the User Interface better than most. And they’re fairly nippy too. Starting to look a bit long in the tooth but I don’t mind. If it makes financial sense I’ll do it. It would mean 2 EVs and no ICE cars in the household. Still I imagine I’ll get around 280-300miles from a M3 LR would I? We already have a 7kW charger at home.

My brother in law has a Tesla MY long range, it's a bit basic/sparse inside but he gets at least 250 miles driven without care even in the winter and he's been very happy with the car.

I think at this stage the charger network (not just Tesla anymore) is now simply good enough to not worry about being an all EV household anymore.

[theboss]

TheDeuce said:

clockworks said:

TheDeuce said:

If you're home based, as was claimed, there's no issue using a car/van for work only and subsequently paying zero tax, as no perk.

Maybe things have changed? It was never offered to us as an option back then. None of my colleagues, or employees of our competitors, were doing it.

We were explicitly told that it was only an option if the vehicle was left at a depot every night, and for most of us that wasn't possible.

Companies can set their own rules for use of company vehicles - quite likely they insisted on it being depot based to rule out suspicions of personal by HMRC.

But if your main place of work is your home, then from HMRC perspective there is no problem leaving the van there. There's a difference between company policy and HMRC rules.

In reality if on the way home in the van, you popped to a shop to buy some milk, you would instantly fall foul of 'only company miles', and technically would need to pay BIK. But also in reality, that happens everyday and it's virtually undetectable - or at least not at all worth the effort to detect and provide evidence of.

All in all, in the situation you describe, it would be easiest and most practical to take a fully commercial company vehicle for work and personal mileage, the BIK on commercial benefit + fuel is flat rate and fairly low. It sounds like this is what your former colleagues are now doing.

I think the problem here arises from discussing company cars/vans as if they are the same for tax purposes.

The way I understand it, the moment a car (as opposed to van or commercial vehicle) is taken home or in any other way 'made available' for personal use which includes any ordinary commuting, a BIK arises.

[TheDeuce]

theboss said:

TheDeuce said:

clockworks said:

TheDeuce said:

If you're home based, as was claimed, there's no issue using a car/van for work only and subsequently paying zero tax, as no perk.

Maybe things have changed? It was never offered to us as an option back then. None of my colleagues, or employees of our competitors, were doing it.

We were explicitly told that it was only an option if the vehicle was left at a depot every night, and for most of us that wasn't possible.

Companies can set their own rules for use of company vehicles - quite likely they insisted on it being depot based to rule out suspicions of personal by HMRC.

But if your main place of work is your home, then from HMRC perspective there is no problem leaving the van there. There's a difference between company policy and HMRC rules.

In reality if on the way home in the van, you popped to a shop to buy some milk, you would instantly fall foul of 'only company miles', and technically would need to pay BIK. But also in reality, that happens everyday and it's virtually undetectable - or at least not at all worth the effort to detect and provide evidence of.

All in all, in the situation you describe, it would be easiest and most practical to take a fully commercial company vehicle for work and personal mileage, the BIK on commercial benefit + fuel is flat rate and fairly low. It sounds like this is what your former colleagues are now doing.

I think the problem here arises from discussing company cars/vans as if they are the same for tax purposes.

The way I understand it, the moment a car (as opposed to van or commercial vehicle) is taken home or in any other way 'made available' for personal use which includes any ordinary commuting, a BIK arises.

As it does with a van. 100% work use, even if place of work is your home = zero bik, car or van.

The only difference from an employees pov is that the commercial vehicle BIK is a set rate and pretty cheap compared to a non commercial vehicle. This is why double cab pickup trucks are so popular as company vehicles.. Also why Landrover offer commercial versions of their Defender.

Commercial vehicle BIK: https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/advice/van-...

[theboss]

TheDeuce said:

theboss said:

TheDeuce said:

clockworks said:

TheDeuce said:

If you're home based, as was claimed, there's no issue using a car/van for work only and subsequently paying zero tax, as no perk.

Maybe things have changed? It was never offered to us as an option back then. None of my colleagues, or employees of our competitors, were doing it.

We were explicitly told that it was only an option if the vehicle was left at a depot every night, and for most of us that wasn't possible.

Companies can set their own rules for use of company vehicles - quite likely they insisted on it being depot based to rule out suspicions of personal by HMRC.

But if your main place of work is your home, then from HMRC perspective there is no problem leaving the van there. There's a difference between company policy and HMRC rules.

In reality if on the way home in the van, you popped to a shop to buy some milk, you would instantly fall foul of 'only company miles', and technically would need to pay BIK. But also in reality, that happens everyday and it's virtually undetectable - or at least not at all worth the effort to detect and provide evidence of.

All in all, in the situation you describe, it would be easiest and most practical to take a fully commercial company vehicle for work and personal mileage, the BIK on commercial benefit + fuel is flat rate and fairly low. It sounds like this is what your former colleagues are now doing.

I think the problem here arises from discussing company cars/vans as if they are the same for tax purposes.

The way I understand it, the moment a car (as opposed to van or commercial vehicle) is taken home or in any other way 'made available' for personal use which includes any ordinary commuting, a BIK arises.

As it does with a van. 100% work use, even if place of work is your home = zero bik, car or van.

The only difference from an employees pov is that the commercial vehicle BIK is a set rate and pretty cheap compared to a non commercial vehicle. This is why double cab pickup trucks are so popular as company vehicles.. Also why Landrover offer commercial versions of their Defender.

Commercial vehicle BIK: https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/advice/van-...

BIK is still much more favourable to vans/commercials than cars given the fixed rates, and there's also an allowance for a small amount of 'insignificant' personal use of vans.

Car private use is assessed much more stringently, and the BIK rates are generally much higher.

Hence vans/commercials can therefore be taken home and largely avoid BIK or worst case incur a flat rate. Cars not so.

[RayDonovan]

We had some employees request for a company car to be business use only and they were all rejected

[andburg]

RayDonovan said:

We had some employees request for a company car to be business use only and they were all rejected

As I understood it, it would be very hard to argue that a company vehicle is not available for private use if the employee has a fixed vehicle that they take home.
Even nipping to the supermarket on the way home is personal use

[TheDeuce]

theboss said:

TheDeuce said:

theboss said:

TheDeuce said:

clockworks said:

TheDeuce said:

If you're home based, as was claimed, there's no issue using a car/van for work only and subsequently paying zero tax, as no perk.

Maybe things have changed? It was never offered to us as an option back then. None of my colleagues, or employees of our competitors, were doing it.

We were explicitly told that it was only an option if the vehicle was left at a depot every night, and for most of us that wasn't possible.

Companies can set their own rules for use of company vehicles - quite likely they insisted on it being depot based to rule out suspicions of personal by HMRC.

But if your main place of work is your home, then from HMRC perspective there is no problem leaving the van there. There's a difference between company policy and HMRC rules.

In reality if on the way home in the van, you popped to a shop to buy some milk, you would instantly fall foul of 'only company miles', and technically would need to pay BIK. But also in reality, that happens everyday and it's virtually undetectable - or at least not at all worth the effort to detect and provide evidence of.

All in all, in the situation you describe, it would be easiest and most practical to take a fully commercial company vehicle for work and personal mileage, the BIK on commercial benefit + fuel is flat rate and fairly low. It sounds like this is what your former colleagues are now doing.

I think the problem here arises from discussing company cars/vans as if they are the same for tax purposes.

The way I understand it, the moment a car (as opposed to van or commercial vehicle) is taken home or in any other way 'made available' for personal use which includes any ordinary commuting, a BIK arises.

As it does with a van. 100% work use, even if place of work is your home = zero bik, car or van.

The only difference from an employees pov is that the commercial vehicle BIK is a set rate and pretty cheap compared to a non commercial vehicle. This is why double cab pickup trucks are so popular as company vehicles.. Also why Landrover offer commercial versions of their Defender.

Commercial vehicle BIK: https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/advice/van-...

BIK is still much more favourable to vans/commercials than cars given the fixed rates, and there's also an allowance for a small amount of 'insignificant' personal use of vans.

Car private use is assessed much more stringently, and the BIK rates are generally much higher.

Hence vans/commercials can therefore be taken home and largely avoid BIK or worst case incur a flat rate. Cars not so.

That's wrong - cars can be taken home just as vans can, providing home is the workplace. There's no difference in terms of the rules. There may be a difference in terms of what companies desire or accept for the reasons you give, HMRC are indeed also more likely to question a family car is 100% work use as opposed to a van. The rues however, are the same with regard to zero BIK if zero personal use.

I already stated to differing BIK rates several times.