EVs and In Gear Acceleration vs ICE
Discussion
540TORQUES said:
TheDeuce said:
540TORQUES said:
TheDeuce said:
I think the M3 and Guila QV would beat the TM3 lap time on most circuits still, but given that the TM3 doesn't have trick suspension and decades of sports car design in its DNA, the fact that a first gen 'sporty' EV can even get close is impressive. It shows how quickly EV's are likely to exceed ICE across all performance metrics - not just acceleration.
The only obvious measure of performance that mainstream EV's might not surpass ICE on is too speed, which is fairly pointless.. but even there, as EV motor design improves so does the max rpm, eventually a single speed fixed transmission EV could easily top 200mph.
How long could the TM3 Perf run flat out around Silverstone none stop?The only obvious measure of performance that mainstream EV's might not surpass ICE on is too speed, which is fairly pointless.. but even there, as EV motor design improves so does the max rpm, eventually a single speed fixed transmission EV could easily top 200mph.
If you want an EV that could potentially beat even an F1 car around a fast lap of Silverstone, you'll have to wait for the upcoming retail version of the McMurtry... Which apparently will be able to do several such laps at that pace - I imagine more laps than most of it's owners will be able to deal with!
I guess we could argue the car would still be 'flat out' but it's latter laps would be severaly compromised by battery temp issues and the fact that power falls off gradually as battery soc reduces. At least for a lower voltage architecture such as the Tesla and most other EV's use.
The Taycan would do far better for longer.
TheDeuce said:
540TORQUES said:
TheDeuce said:
540TORQUES said:
TheDeuce said:
I think the M3 and Guila QV would beat the TM3 lap time on most circuits still, but given that the TM3 doesn't have trick suspension and decades of sports car design in its DNA, the fact that a first gen 'sporty' EV can even get close is impressive. It shows how quickly EV's are likely to exceed ICE across all performance metrics - not just acceleration.
The only obvious measure of performance that mainstream EV's might not surpass ICE on is too speed, which is fairly pointless.. but even there, as EV motor design improves so does the max rpm, eventually a single speed fixed transmission EV could easily top 200mph.
How long could the TM3 Perf run flat out around Silverstone none stop?The only obvious measure of performance that mainstream EV's might not surpass ICE on is too speed, which is fairly pointless.. but even there, as EV motor design improves so does the max rpm, eventually a single speed fixed transmission EV could easily top 200mph.
If you want an EV that could potentially beat even an F1 car around a fast lap of Silverstone, you'll have to wait for the upcoming retail version of the McMurtry... Which apparently will be able to do several such laps at that pace - I imagine more laps than most of it's owners will be able to deal with!
I guess we could argue the car would still be 'flat out' but it's latter laps would be severaly compromised by battery temp issues and the fact that power falls off gradually as battery soc reduces. At least for a lower voltage architecture such as the Tesla and most other EV's use.
The Taycan would do far better for longer.
ksTheDeuce said:
...The Taycan would do far better for longer.
But it doesn't - its thermal management is actually worse than the Model 3 on longer track runs:https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-crushes-po...
df76 said:
I’ve seen reports where users have got about a 1/3 of their expected range out on track, so you could use that to estimate laps. Not normal to go to a track day and just pound around lap after lap though. Has silverstone got chargers yet?
It might just make it if it can do 1/3 distance.There is a event held each year by the VSCC that involves a none stop high speed reliability run for 40 minutes, plus two out laps and one in lap on the GP circuit. It would need to do 62 miles flat out to stand a chance of finishing that. It has driving tests that are designed to find the best touring car, so has a test for handling, acceleration, high speed point to point, acceleration and braking performance. If it could manage the distance at speed, it might stand a chance of doing OK. It would be fun to see how it compared to other cars in this event.
540TORQUES said:
df76 said:
I’ve seen reports where users have got about a 1/3 of their expected range out on track, so you could use that to estimate laps. Not normal to go to a track day and just pound around lap after lap though. Has silverstone got chargers yet?
It might just make it if it can do 1/3 distance.There is an event held each year by the VSCC that involves a none stop high speed reliability run for 40 minutes, plus two out laps and one in lap on the GP circuit. It would need to do 62 miles flat out to stand a chance of finishing that. It has driving tests that are designed to find the best touring car, so has a test for handling, acceleration, high speed point to point, acceleration and braking performance. If it could manage the distance at speed, it might stand a chance of doing OK. It would be fun to see how it compared to other cars in this event.
I think we all like different things. I love anything with an engine - trains, planes (inc glow fuel) or automobiles. I love lawnmowers, chainsaws, tractors or diggers, even boats, so long as they are powered by ICE. I’ve always been this way since I was small. It’s the smell, noise as well as the performance but I’m just as happy thrashing a little Fiesta, driving my old V8 Range Rover, as I am in my supercharged Monaro, a car that scares me btw.
So whilst I accept EVs are technically better, I don’t really care as I care more about what I stand to lose when they are gone and everyone has lost interest in cars so we all travel by Jonny Cab.
So whilst I accept EVs are technically better, I don’t really care as I care more about what I stand to lose when they are gone and everyone has lost interest in cars so we all travel by Jonny Cab.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 22 March 18:51
Zcd1 said:
TheDeuce said:
...The Taycan would do far better for longer.
But it doesn't - its thermal management is actually worse than the Model 3 on longer track runs:https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-crushes-po...
TheDeuce said:
That's interesting - thanks. I knew the Porsche was better at repeat sprints. I've learned something new about it's more sustained pace!
The Taycan was better than the original Model S at repeat sprints, but never actually better than the Model 3/Y.When Car & Driver demonstrated in controlled testing just how far the Model S's performance degraded after a couple of runs, Tesla issued an OTA update that largely mitigated the issue:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a33589568/202...
wormus said:
I think we all like different things. I love anything with an engine - trains, planes (inc glow fuel) or automobiles. I love lawnmowers, chainsaws, tractors or diggers, even boats, so long as they are powered by ICE. I’ve always been this way since I was small. It’s the smell, noise as well as the performance but I’m just as happy thrashing a little Fiesta, driving my old V8 Range Rover, as I am in my supercharged Monaro, a car that scares me btw.
So whilst I accept EVs are technically better, I don’t really care as I care more about what I stand to lose when they are gone and everyone has lost interest in cars so we all travel by Jonny Cab.
It’s possible to appreciate BEV and ICESo whilst I accept EVs are technically better, I don’t really care as I care more about what I stand to lose when they are gone and everyone has lost interest in cars so we all travel by Jonny Cab.
Edited by wormus on Friday 22 March 18:51
Like enjoying Wine AND Beer for example
Ever tried an EV for a few days ?
There is a place for both
wormus said:
I think we all like different things. I love anything with an engine - trains, planes (inc glow fuel) or automobiles. I love lawnmowers, chainsaws, tractors or diggers, even boats, so long as they are powered by ICE. I’ve always been this way since I was small. It’s the smell, noise as well as the performance but I’m just as happy thrashing a little Fiesta, driving my old V8 Range Rover, as I am in my supercharged Monaro, a car that scares me btw.
So whilst I accept EVs are technically better, I don’t really care as I care more about what I stand to lose when they are gone and everyone has lost interest in cars so we all travel by Jonny Cab.
That's all understandable, I don't want ICE to leave my life either. I love it, I also love steam power - nothing can replace either.So whilst I accept EVs are technically better, I don’t really care as I care more about what I stand to lose when they are gone and everyone has lost interest in cars so we all travel by Jonny Cab.
Edited by wormus on Friday 22 March 18:51
But aside from 'loss', do you have any interest at all in what is new? At some point ICE was new to you too - are you now past the point at which you can get excited about new things?
I'm capable of being very nostalgic and I often prefer the old ways. But there's a bit of me that feels a human being is under utilising themselves if they don't just happily look to the past, but cling on to it. If there's only the past, why wake up tomorrow? Other than to grumble.
TheDeuce said:
The Tesla? No chance. For several reasons.
I guess we could argue the car would still be 'flat out' but it's latter laps would be severaly compromised by battery temp issues and the fact that power falls off gradually as battery soc reduces. At least for a lower voltage architecture such as the Tesla and most other EV's use.
The Taycan would do far better for longer.
It’s 4 laps flat out without a cool down lap. Most cars would be needing a cool down by then. I guess we could argue the car would still be 'flat out' but it's latter laps would be severaly compromised by battery temp issues and the fact that power falls off gradually as battery soc reduces. At least for a lower voltage architecture such as the Tesla and most other EV's use.
The Taycan would do far better for longer.
TheDeuce said:
wormus said:
I think we all like different things. I love anything with an engine - trains, planes (inc glow fuel) or automobiles. I love lawnmowers, chainsaws, tractors or diggers, even boats, so long as they are powered by ICE. I’ve always been this way since I was small. It’s the smell, noise as well as the performance but I’m just as happy thrashing a little Fiesta, driving my old V8 Range Rover, as I am in my supercharged Monaro, a car that scares me btw.
So whilst I accept EVs are technically better, I don’t really care as I care more about what I stand to lose when they are gone and everyone has lost interest in cars so we all travel by Jonny Cab.
That's all understandable, I don't want ICE to leave my life either. I love it, I also love steam power - nothing can replace either.So whilst I accept EVs are technically better, I don’t really care as I care more about what I stand to lose when they are gone and everyone has lost interest in cars so we all travel by Jonny Cab.
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 22 March 18:51
But aside from 'loss', do you have any interest at all in what is new? At some point ICE was new to you too - are you now past the point at which you can get excited about new things?
I'm capable of being very nostalgic and I often prefer the old ways. But there's a bit of me that feels a human being is under utilising themselves if they don't just happily look to the past, but cling on to it. If there's only the past, why wake up tomorrow? Other than to grumble.
wormus said:
TheDeuce said:
wormus said:
I think we all like different things. I love anything with an engine - trains, planes (inc glow fuel) or automobiles. I love lawnmowers, chainsaws, tractors or diggers, even boats, so long as they are powered by ICE. I’ve always been this way since I was small. It’s the smell, noise as well as the performance but I’m just as happy thrashing a little Fiesta, driving my old V8 Range Rover, as I am in my supercharged Monaro, a car that scares me btw.
So whilst I accept EVs are technically better, I don’t really care as I care more about what I stand to lose when they are gone and everyone has lost interest in cars so we all travel by Jonny Cab.
That's all understandable, I don't want ICE to leave my life either. I love it, I also love steam power - nothing can replace either.So whilst I accept EVs are technically better, I don’t really care as I care more about what I stand to lose when they are gone and everyone has lost interest in cars so we all travel by Jonny Cab.
Edited by wormus on Friday 22 March 18:51
But aside from 'loss', do you have any interest at all in what is new? At some point ICE was new to you too - are you now past the point at which you can get excited about new things?
I'm capable of being very nostalgic and I often prefer the old ways. But there's a bit of me that feels a human being is under utilising themselves if they don't just happily look to the past, but cling on to it. If there's only the past, why wake up tomorrow? Other than to grumble.
Electric powertrains are superior to ICE. More efficient, less maintenance, etc.
It’s battery tech that is holding EVs back. If they manage to get smaller much lighter batteries then it’s game over for ice. But I think that is probably some years in the making if achievable.
I live the ICE involvement, noises, smells but appreciate the future is an electric motor.
It’s battery tech that is holding EVs back. If they manage to get smaller much lighter batteries then it’s game over for ice. But I think that is probably some years in the making if achievable.
I live the ICE involvement, noises, smells but appreciate the future is an electric motor.
wormus said:
Present me with an EV that costs the same or less than the equivalent ICE and does all the same things the same or better, and I’ll seriously consider one. As it is, if the government removes the incentives, EVs are dead in the water.
What a ridiculous statement.EVs and ICE are never going to be the same, they have their own pros and cons. The thing is, for a vast number of people, apart from ‘parp parp’ and being able to tow a caravan to the outer Hebrides without notice EV’s have more pros than cons when compared to ICE. And some of the pros, like not pumping out anything like as much CO2 let alone other pollutants, are quite big pros.
Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Saturday 23 March 09:19
740EVTORQUES said:
wormus said:
Present me with an EV that costs the same or less than the equivalent ICE and does all the same things the same or better, and I’ll seriously consider one. As it is, if the government removes the incentives, EVs are dead in the water.
What a ridiculous statement.EVs and ICE are never going to be the same, they have their own pros and cons. The thing is, for a vast number of people, apart from ‘parp parp’ and being able to tow a caravan to the outer Hebrides without notice EV’s have more pros than cons when compared to ICE. And some of the pros, like not pumping out anything like as much CO2 let alone other pollutants, are quite big pros.
Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Saturday 23 March 09:19
How would you explain this?
https://insideevs.com/news/712520/hyundai-motor-gl...
46% down on sales yoy.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 23 March 09:41
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