Anyone giving up EV?

[Nomme de Plum]

KingGary said:

SWoll said:

Why anyone would start a 4+ hour drive without having looked into charging options beforehand is beyond me.

Because they are used to driving an ICE where it’s not a consideration? As others have said, it’s an extra inconvenience to have to plan when and where your car needs feeding. Disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

Are you saying when you have your children you don't make any sort of plan for the odd stop on a very long trip. Maybe as I much older with good old OS and Michelin maps it wads the norm to make some plan as to where we would stop and then way to the Coast Blanca.

Now I have a very nice little App and if anything I plan less than back then for journeys.

[DT1975]

SWoll said:

Bank holidays will always be busy, but you cant expect anyone to invest enough to handle that surge for a handful of days a year when the rest of the time they'll sit idle.

The current useful 50kW+ charger locations in Devon/Cornwall.

It's not just a handful of days though. We live in Dorset and any sunny summer weekend will be carnage along the A35/ A31 / M27 /M3 from Basingstoke to Exeter . I've seen queues plenty of times at the Fleet northbound chargers that have clogged the whole car park and gone back onto the slip road and yes loads of irate and frustrated motorists. That particular location seems to be a pinch point for traffic heading home as there's only two service stations on the M3.

Likewise A34 from Winchester to Oxford when the Midlands have a trip to the seaside or back home.

I've sat in that traffic on numerous occasions over the last 40 years and I've even had range anxiety in an ICE. However these holiday / recreational routes aren't the Governments priority in relation to transport networks so I suspect as you allude to they won't be in relation to chargers.

I've no agenda mind, I'm looking to get an EV.

[stumpage]

Nomme de Plum said:

KingGary said:

SWoll said:

Why anyone would start a 4+ hour drive without having looked into charging options beforehand is beyond me.

Because they are used to driving an ICE where it’s not a consideration? As others have said, it’s an extra inconvenience to have to plan when and where your car needs feeding. Disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

Are you saying when you have your children you don't make any sort of plan for the odd stop on a very long trip. Maybe as I much older with good old OS and Michelin maps it wads the norm to make some plan as to where we would stop and then way to the Coast Blanca.

Now I have a very nice little App and if anything I plan less than back then for journeys.

The only plan you have to stop with small kids is when the call comes. "Dad I need the toilet" than you stop. Can't plan for that very well.

[Nomme de Plum]

stumpage said:

The only plan you have to stop with small kids is when the call comes. "Dad I need the toilet" than you stop. Can't plan for that very well.

This is true when they are very young but not when a bit older.

[KingGary]

Nomme de Plum said:

stumpage said:

The only plan you have to stop with small kids is when the call comes. "Dad I need the toilet" than you stop. Can't plan for that very well.

This is true when they are very young but not when a bit older.

I cannot remember, it was a very long time ago!

[Cobnapint]

DT1975 said:

It's not just a handful of days though. We live in Dorset and any sunny summer weekend will be carnage along the A35/ A31 / M27 /M3 from Basingstoke to Exeter . I've seen queues plenty of times at the Fleet northbound chargers that have clogged the whole car park and gone back onto the slip road and yes loads of irate and frustrated motorists. That particular location seems to be a pinch point for traffic heading home as there's only two service stations on the M3.

Likewise A34 from Winchester to Oxford when the Midlands have a trip to the seaside or back home.

I've sat in that traffic on numerous occasions over the last 40 years and I've even had range anxiety in an ICE. However these holiday / recreational routes aren't the Governments priority in relation to transport networks so I suspect as you allude to they won't be in relation to chargers.

I've no agenda mind, I'm looking to get an EV.

That's exactly what I thought it'd be like. The only respite being if you went out of season.

[Big Nanas]

stumpage said:

The only plan you have to stop with small kids is when the call comes. "Dad I need the toilet" than you stop. Can't plan for that very well.

Pah, kids have it too easy these days.
I was born in '71, and when I told my dad I need to be sick, he said "we're not stopping, just put your head out of the window".
I did, and then when we eventually stopped he complained that there was vomit on the side of the car.
We were loved back then, I'm told.

[vikingaero]

romft123 said:

this obsession with 200/300 mile range when 99.5% of your journeys are probably less than 50 is laughable.

But that's were you're wrong. It's just as annoying hearing stuff like this as much as ICE users rally against EV range or just EV's. Much like the biased media, there is a happy medium you need to find for sensible ICE/EV conversation. I think more of us are open minded on PH regarding EV's and range that you think.

I'm actively considering an EV as my next local pottering around family car and the 200/300 (150-200 in reality) range is indeed ideal.

I have a VW Passat diesel reserved solely as the car for University runs and holidays. So for example in one day before Easter I collected both Vikingettes. It did Kent to Manchester at 4am in 3.5 hours without needing a toilet break, Manchester to Birmingham, Birmingham to Kent (Around 9 hours and 550 miles) We ate around loading up and only stopped for 3 minute toilet stops.

After Easter I took one back to early to Manchester and the other to Brum on a different date. That's about 1,500 miles in less than 2 weeks. And the best bit really was the range. Having a full tank and knowing roughly how far it would comfortably take me and not have to consider refuelling.

I do think about what would happen if I have an EV only. For example arriving at hotels at gone 10pm and having to find a charger when all I want to do is rest. Having an EV would restrict me in the choice of hotels - when I travel i choose the cheapest Travelodge or Premier Inn close to my destination and the cheapest ones are least likely to have chargers. I park in many places and many car parks still don't have chargers or those that do have low outputs that may not make a significant different. And I would refuse to refuel a petrol, diesel or EV at services because I'm inherently too tight. I'd rather encounter a supermarket along the route to refuel.

[limpsfield]

vikingaero said:

For example arriving at hotels at gone 10pm and having to find a charger when all I want to do is rest. Having an EV would restrict me in the choice of hotels - when I travel i choose the cheapest Travelodge or Premier Inn close to my destination and the cheapest ones are least likely to have chargers.

I am the same. I don't pick hotels on whether they have a charger or not. I am reasonably confident I could have done the trips you mention above with minimum hassle in my Tesla. Another type of EV may be trickier/more expensive. Although, I think the non-Tesla EV charging infrastructure has come on in leaps and bounds in the 3.5 years I have had mine - although it is still about twice as expensive.

[Ken_Code]

cerb4.5lee said:

Obviously I don't know first hand because I haven't run an EV for myself, but how reliable/accurate would 300 miles range be in an EV?

I often read that EVs never get anywhere near the manufacturers claimed range figures, plus I also read that owners of EVs turn the heater off/A/C off to try to improve the range etc. I don't like the idea of having to compromise with doing stuff like that to try to improve the range if you know what I mean?

In my Tesla Model S the supposed 300 mile range worked out to enough below 200 that I had to plan a route stopping at superchargers 180 miles apart if I wS doing autoroute speeds.

[df76]

Cobnapint said:

DT1975 said:

It's not just a handful of days though. We live in Dorset and any sunny summer weekend will be carnage along the A35/ A31 / M27 /M3 from Basingstoke to Exeter . I've seen queues plenty of times at the Fleet northbound chargers that have clogged the whole car park and gone back onto the slip road and yes loads of irate and frustrated motorists. That particular location seems to be a pinch point for traffic heading home as there's only two service stations on the M3.

Likewise A34 from Winchester to Oxford when the Midlands have a trip to the seaside or back home.

I've sat in that traffic on numerous occasions over the last 40 years and I've even had range anxiety in an ICE. However these holiday / recreational routes aren't the Governments priority in relation to transport networks so I suspect as you allude to they won't be in relation to chargers.

I've no agenda mind, I'm looking to get an EV.

That's exactly what I thought it'd be like. The only respite being if you went out of season.

The charging infrastructure is slowly coming. There’s a significant charging hub being constructed at the moment just to the north of Winchester on the A34, I’m sure that will be popular. The A303 is well served up to and including Solstice Park at Amesbury, but then it’s a bit patchy after that and some journey planning would be needed.

[Ken_Code]

Nomme de Plum said:

I do not believe Lee wants the truth. It is much easier to read stuff which supports a particular prejudice. We know that real world range for ICEs is rarely what is stated and likewise EVs. Energy consumption is also impacted greatly by the driver.

What i do find strange is why he wastes time posting anything in a thread on which he admits he has zero knowledge or experience. Why not stick to M4, Caterham or ICE type threads.

As to needing a car that can do 700 miles between fuel stops I do wonder what concentration levels a person would have after at lest 10 hours non stop driving. Personally I think this is fantasy stuff.

The R8 which I used for longer trips before I had my Tesla managed 400 miles on a tank of petrol.

The big issue for me wasn’t so much the stopping en route it was the needing to arrive at rural French locations with enough charge to last me the next couple of days of local use. My starting assumption that I’d be bound to be able to charge at my destination turned out to be very wrong.

[Fox-]

Nomme de Plum said:

As to needing a car that can do 700 miles between fuel stops I do wonder what concentration levels a person would have after at lest 10 hours non stop driving. Personally I think this is fantasy stuff.

I don't know why its always assumed that somebody who values range on a car does so because they want or need to be able to use that entire range in a single drive without stopping.

Mostly, the benefit of range isn't being able to drive 700 miles in 10 hours without a break which I'd suggest is both almost unheard of and quite ridiculous, it's about the flexibility that range gives you with regards to when and where you stop.

There are various places you might drive to, perhaps 150-200 miles away, which when you arrive do not have destination charging. The idea that somebody might drive for 2-3 hours to a destination without charging and then the next day drive back again is surely far more believable than the stupid idea that everyone who requests a reasonable range is pretending they do 500 mile journeys without a single break.

One day we'll get to a point where you can simply expect that anywhere you can park a car, you can charge a car - even slowly (No need for rapid charging at a hotel or a long stay carpark). This will pretty much end the requirement for significant range. But until that happens its a legitimate requirement I think.

Edited by Fox- on Tuesday 16th April 16:41

[Ken_Code]

Fox- said:

I don't know why its always assumed that somebody who values range on a car does so because they want or need to be able to use that entire range in a single drive without stopping.

Mostly, the benefit of range isn't being able to drive 700 miles in 10 hours without a break which I'd suggest is both almost unheard of and quite ridiculous, it's about the flexibility that range gives you with regards to when and where you stop.

There are various places you might drive to, perhaps 150-200 miles away, which when you arrive do not have destination charging. The idea that somebody might drive for 2-3 hours to a destination without charging and then the next day drive back again is surely far more believable than the stupid idea that everyone who requests a reasonable range is pretending they do 500 mile journeys without a single break.

As per my point above, arriving in our rural hotel in France with 50 miles range remaining was a problem.

We weren’t able to charge there, and starting our next day having to search out a fast charger in the middle of nowhere was not easy.

[cerb4.5lee]

Fox- said:

Nomme de Plum said:

As to needing a car that can do 700 miles between fuel stops I do wonder what concentration levels a person would have after at lest 10 hours non stop driving. Personally I think this is fantasy stuff.

I don't know why its always assumed that somebody who values range on a car does so because they want or need to be able to use that entire range in a single drive without stopping.

Mostly, the benefit of range isn't being able to drive 700 miles in 10 hours without a break which I'd suggest is both almost unheard of and quite ridiculous, it's about the flexibility that range gives you with regards to when and where you stop.

There are various places you might drive to, perhaps 150-200 miles away, which when you arrive do not have destination charging. The idea that somebody might drive for 2-3 hours to a destination without charging and then the next day drive back again is surely far more believable than the stupid idea that everyone who requests a reasonable range is pretending they do 500 mile journeys without a single break.

One day we'll get to a point where you can simply expect that anywhere you can park a car, you can charge a car - even slowly (No need for rapid charging at a hotel or a long stay carpark). This will pretty much end the requirement for significant range. But until that happens its a legitimate requirement I think.

Edited by Fox- on Tuesday 16th April 16:41

I always get shot down, but we like the flexibility of a car with a good range as well(around 700 miles). Obviously we don't use it all in one go either.

[Nomme de Plum]

cerb4.5lee said:

I always get shot down, but we like the flexibility of a car with a good range as well(around 700 miles). Obviously we don't use it all in one go either.

In my 53 years of car ownership I've never owned a car with anything approaching 700 miles. I think the max may have been about 450, but mostly less.

I wonder how I managed to clock up certainly well north of 500,000 miles. I know my early cars were between 150- 300 miles on a tank and petrol stations were more dispersed and not 24/7.

[James6112]

My Skoda diesel regularly tots up £700+ miles on a tank.
£35 tax/£300 Insurance/60+ mpg

When it dies, will stil get an EV though!

[cerb4.5lee]

Nomme de Plum said:

In my 53 years of car ownership I've never owned a car with anything approaching 700 miles. I think the max may have been about 450, but mostly less.

I wonder how I managed to clock up certainly well north of 500,000 miles. I know my early cars were between 150- 300 miles on a tank and petrol stations were more dispersed and not 24/7.

Modern diesels are really good for range now though. It was showing 775 miles on the range in the summer last year as well.

[cerb4.5lee]

I've just filled up with fuel and I was shocked to see 470 miles on the range, especially when I think back to how I used to only get between 200-250 miles of range out of the E92 M3. The S55 engine is definitely better suited if you are using it as a daily I reckon(more power/much more torque and a much better range/mpg too).

It is a great all round performance car I think.



^^^^
This was from when I saw 470 on the range from the petrol M4 too!

[cerb4.5lee]

James6112 said:

My Skoda diesel regularly tots up £700+ miles on a tank.
£35 tax/£300 Insurance/60+ mpg

When it dies, will stil get an EV though!

Yes and loads of ICE cars give you a really good range now for sure. I'll be in for a bit of a shock if I ever do swap to an EV I think!