Anyone giving up EV?

[GT9]

Nomme de Plum said:

Took me a while. End to end maybe?

I got that, it was the evidence that the statement is anywhere near being true I was referring to.

[Nomme de Plum]

GT9 said:

Nomme de Plum said:

Took me a while. End to end maybe?

I got that, it was the evidence that the statement is anywhere near being true I was referring to.

Apologies. I should have known better. I wouldn't hold your breath on that one though.

[Fastlane]

ashenfie said:

So we are pushed in to bigger EV which mean for me moving from a Mini to Tesla Y sized car. E2E pollution about the same and me hugely out of pocket. Is that what Net Zero means?

Really? There are plenty of compact EVs that are much smaller than a Model Y - ID3, Born, MG4, Niro, Kona, Atto 3, not to mention the Mini. Bear in mind that most ICE Minis are pretty large these days.

As to your other statement, we'll wait to see your independently researched study that proves that.

Do you have an agenda of some sort?

[Nomme de Plum]

Cobnapint said:

Nomme de Plum said:

The big plus with an EV is every time deceleration is required a good chunk of energy is recuperated.

Just how much charge is put back in though?

For the few seconds of intermittent deceleration you get, it can't be a lot can it, surely...?

It depends on the car. In the extreme the new Taycan can decelerate the car at 0.46g at recoup at 400kW.

In town and normal A, B roads in traffic the brakes are hardly used at all also down hill regen is a positive. So it's a win win. Less break wear and not so much energy not wasted.

I have a part time taxi driver mate that uses an EV for his typical airport trips. I can't give exact data but he's reckons it is very significant. He comes from the electronics world and is pretty clued up on electrical engineering. Next time he takes me I'll ask if his car logs it.

[740EVTORQUES]

Cobnapint said:

Nomme de Plum said:

The big plus with an EV is every time deceleration is required a good chunk of energy is recuperated.

Just how much charge is put back in though?

For the few seconds of intermittent deceleration you get, it can't be a lot can it, surely...?

My car puts up to 320kW back in at 0.6g from the regen brakes alone before even the discs start to work, that’s faster than it can charge from the biggest DC fast charger….

Yes it is a lot.

Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Wednesday 17th April 11:45

[Nomme de Plum]

740EVTORQUES said:

Cobnapint said:

Nomme de Plum said:

The big plus with an EV is every time deceleration is required a good chunk of energy is recuperated.

Just how much charge is put back in though?

For the few seconds of intermittent deceleration you get, it can't be a lot can it, surely...?

My car puts up to 320kW back in at 0.6g from the regen brakes alone before event the discs start to work, that’s faster than it can charge from the biggest DC fast charger….

Yes it is a lot.

Your pads should last a long time. Is there a disc corrosion issue from lack of use?

[740EVTORQUES]

Nomme de Plum said:

740EVTORQUES said:

Cobnapint said:

Nomme de Plum said:

The big plus with an EV is every time deceleration is required a good chunk of energy is recuperated.

Just how much charge is put back in though?

For the few seconds of intermittent deceleration you get, it can't be a lot can it, surely...?

My car puts up to 320kW back in at 0.6g from the regen brakes alone before event the discs start to work, that’s faster than it can charge from the biggest DC fast charger….

Yes it is a lot.

Your pads should last a long time. Is there a disc corrosion issue from lack of use?

No, the car periodically cleans them. Clever.



Formula e cars don’t even have rear brakes as they don’t need them. They do it all through regen!




https://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/formula-e-car...

[sly fox]

said:

The rate of regen charging is high as you say, but you're only doing it for fractions of a second /a few seconds at a time. Can't make that much of a differnece to range - or does it ? interested to know.

[tamore]

was wondering the other day, if there is a descent long and steep enough in the world to drive an EV down with an empty battery and get it to 100% on regen by the time it gets to the bottom.

[CheesecakeRunner]

tamore said:

was wondering the other day, if there is a descent long and steep enough in the world to drive an EV down with an empty battery and get it to 100% on regen by the time it gets to the bottom.

Not quite that, but the first time I drove a Tesla was in Andalucia in 2017 as a test drive type thing with Continental tyres. The route they gave us headed up some pretty big mountains, we left with 100% and returned after just over 100 miles with 85%. At the coffee stop near the highest point on the route, the battery was around 30% and we were querying the rep if we'd be able to make it back.

[740EVTORQUES]

sly fox said:

The rate of regen charging is high as you say, but you're only doing it for fractions of a second /a few seconds at a time. Can't make that much of a differnece to range - or does it ? interested to know.

This is what discs look like after a couple of laps of Silverstone.

In an EV most of that waste energy (less some charging losses of course) goes back into the battery, it’s not insignificant. In case it’s hard to read, even with fairy gentle braking in the rain the discs were at 150 degrees

The pit crew were using my 997 wheels as a space heater to keep warm the other day






(Edited for accuracy)

Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Wednesday 17th April 14:10

[740EVTORQUES]

tamore said:

was wondering the other day, if there is a descent long and steep enough in the world to drive an EV down with an empty battery and get it to 100% on regen by the time it gets to the bottom.

In theory yes, the mining company FMG piloted using this to deliver ore to ports from some of their mines. They coast downhill all the way to the port charging the battery as they go. They then unload the ore and the harvested energy is enough to drive the lighter empty train back up hill to its starting point without ever having to draw any energy from outside!

Its not perpetual motion of course and is a peculiar example but it just shows that regen braking harvests real, meaningful amounts of energy.

[Fox-]

plfrench said:

I think he's referring to the emissions coming out of a Diesel exhaust as opposed to how it drives. There is an ever increasing push to get rid of Diesels from UK roads ASAP. I saw this yesterday which shows an incredible drop off in Diesel fuel sales both nationally and even more so in London, so it would appear the push is working:

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/call-for-early-ba...

As a result people who once drove up and down Motorways in a diesel now do so in a petrol instead. What has that done to CO2 emissions?

The problem with diesel was always pretending it was the answer to every motoring question. It never was - we should never have been able to buy a small city car with a diesel engine. But it was always very good at moving long distances with lower emissions and greater range than a petrol alternative.

You'd think we'd learn from the mistake of thinking one fuel type can be the answer to every motoring question.

[FHCNICK]

740EVTORQUES said:

This is what discs look like after a couple of laps of Silverstone.

In an EV all of that waste energy (less some charging losses of course) goes back into the battery, it’s not insignificant. In case it’s hard to read, even with fairy gentle braking in the rain the discs were at 150 degrees

The pit crew were using my 997 wheels as a space heater to keep warm the other day

For that statement to be accurate then the regen braking of an ev is perfectly adequate to cope with effectively slowing the car down on a track day without using the brake pedal.

I get what you are saying regarding the positive of recouping free fuel during regen braking on the road and appreciate the graphic analogy but hardly apples to apples is it.

[740EVTORQUES]

FHCNICK said:

For that statement to be accurate then the regen braking of an ev is perfectly adequate to cope with effectively slowing the car down on a track day without using the brake pedal.

I get what you are saying regarding the positive of recouping free fuel during regen braking on the road and appreciate the graphic analogy but hardly apples to apples is it.

No it’s just an illustration of the amount of energy, but to be fair I’ll change the wording to be more accurate.

In fact formula e cars do rely solely on regen on the back axles so in principle it’s possible.

For road use the majority of braking can be done by regen.

Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Wednesday 17th April 14:11

[stumpage]

I wish I could. It is misery using one of these when you need to charge on the move. 2 long journeys now where I've needed to charge, it has added an good hour plus to each journey, the messing around with apps etc, waiting to get on a charger. Unless I'm doing something wrong how do you EV fanboys put up with this crap!!

NEC tomorrow. Booked a spot in the EV charging car park. Looks like I'm going to have to leave what I'm doing half way throught to go out and unplug when charging complete and move it and go back to the NEC again.

2 Years 11 months and counting then it will be ICE all day long. Shame as the car itself isn't that bad but filling it up is a MASSIVE step backwards unless you only do local journeys.

[Nomme de Plum]

740EVTORQUES said:

No, the car periodically cleans them. Clever.


Formula e cars don’t even have rear brakes as they don’t need them. They do it all through regen!


https://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/formula-e-car...

They regenerate at 600kW. That is very impressive indeed.

[Nomme de Plum]

stumpage said:

I wish I could. It is misery using one of these when you need to charge on the move. 2 long journeys now where I've needed to charge, it has added an good hour plus to each journey, the messing around with apps etc, waiting to get on a charger. Unless I'm doing something wrong how do you EV fanboys put up with this crap!!

NEC tomorrow. Booked a spot in the EV charging car park. Looks like I'm going to have to leave what I'm doing half way throught to go out and unplug when charging complete and move it and go back to the NEC again.

2 Years 11 months and counting then it will be ICE all day long. Shame as the car itself isn't that bad but filling it up is a MASSIVE step backwards unless you only do local journeys.

App wise, what exactly is the issue?

An hour sounds a very long time charging how many kW is that per charge?

So when you are on stand. Do you say there all day with no breaks. Why not co-ordinate with lunch or similar break?

Why did you choose the BMW i4 M50 it doesn't appear to have a great real world range?

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Wednesday 17th April 13:31

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Wednesday 17th April 13:41

[CheesecakeRunner]

stumpage said:

NEC tomorrow. Booked a spot in the EV charging car park. Looks like I'm going to have to leave what I'm doing half way throught to go out and unplug when charging complete and move it and go back to the NEC again.

The car park with the BP Pulse slow chargers on each parking bay? They're destination chargers, just leave it plugged in until you leave.

It's only the rapids there that you need to unplug when done.

[Evanivitch]

plfrench said:

cerb4.5lee said:

Evanivitch said:

Fox- said:

An ideal two car driveway would be a diesel with range like that and a small fully electric city car. I think a lot of the issues with electric cars are a result of trying to make them the answer to every question - they are not, but neither was a diesel car or a petrol car.

Why would a diesel be anywhere near a 2 car driveway? Grim.

Isn't a small full electric city car grim as well though? I certainly didn't reckon much to the smart full electric city car that I had as a loan car once.

I think he's referring to the emissions coming out of a Diesel exhaust as opposed to how it drives. There is an ever increasing push to get rid of Diesels from UK roads ASAP. I saw this yesterday which shows an incredible drop off in Diesel fuel sales both nationally and even more so in London, so it would appear the push is working:

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/call-for-early-ba...

Just seems entirely pointless to have an electric car which will cover the majority of daily usage and then have a diesel for the purpose of MPG. It would feel absolutely agricultural in comparison and wouldn't offer the driving experience of a good petrol engine. Seems such a weird combination.