Anyone giving up EV?

[Evanivitch]

distinctivedesign said:

I have gone back to ICE.

I tried hard with EV's - having had three,

Out of interest, what were they?

[croyde]

paul chocks said:

I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit over the last few weeks. I’ve had my e-golf nearly 6 years now and just approaching 85000 miles, so it’s well used.
When I bought it, I had a daily round trip commute of 70 miles which the golf handled well. I was always going the same way as other commuters, and the roads were busy. Driving the golf was easy and relaxed.
Two years ago, I switched jobs and although the daily mileage is much the same, I’m going against the flow and have quiet roads. A couple of months ago my wife’s car was off the road, and she borrowed the golf - meanwhile I used our 3rd car (ICE) as my daily for a month. I couldn’t believe how much I enjoyed driving it. All the sensations were alive. My golf had completely shut down my senses - no sound, no smell, no real feel to the driving and no buttons or switches - just touch screen distractions.
I’ve considered replacement EVs, but there is nothing that interests me, so I’m thinking of getting a fun ICE while I still can. If I don’t I’ll probably keep the golf and run it till it dies.
Re cost - yes the golf saved me a lot over my previous inefficient diesel, but I’m in a position where the enjoyment of driving is still a factor. I could eat cheaper than I do, but I choose to eat what I enjoy rather than the cheapest. Holidays too. And while I can enjoy the drive, paying a bit more to do so makes sense to me.
Sure, if I was caught up in the hustle of the commuter train I’d stick with EV. It’s horses for courses and there is no size fits all.

I've driven EVs and they just do nothing for me, in fact most modern ICE cars don't do much for me either.

Walk across the works car park and there's not a single car of the 1200 odd parked there, that quicken my heart.

And there's quite an eclectic bunch.

I thought I'd grown weary of driving cars until I test drive then bought an Abarth 695 Competizione.

Makes me grin every time, it's such a laugh. I love driving again.

[cerb4.5lee]

distinctivedesign said:

Another thing - to scotch some of the nonsense on this forum. Be very clear that EV's are not better than ICE. They simply aren't. What they are is different. If that difference works for you, then great, but they are not better. Like all things, they have good points and bad points - it is just that these points are different to ICE cars.

My biggest gripe with them is that they've actually took us backwards rather than forwards. Progress should make things better/easier I think, but EVs just don't work like that though in my opinion.

They will never be better than ICE for me, different yes, better...definitely not as you say.

[smn159]

croyde said:

Walk across the works car park and there's not a single car of the 1200 odd parked there, that quicken my heart.

That's not entirely a surprise in a commuter car park though is it. I loved my Elan +2 when I had it but driving it to work through a UK winter (which I did) was ultimately a chore.

Cars which are best suited to commuting are not going to quicken your heart

[WestyCarl]

distinctivedesign said:

I have gone back to ICE.
Another thing - to scotch some of the nonsense on this forum. Be very clear that EV's are not better than ICE. They simply aren't. What they are is different. If that difference works for you, then great, but they are not better. Like all things, they have good points and bad points - it is just that these points are different to ICE cars.

"Better" is a subjective measure. For me an EV is definatelty better than an ICE, based on my criteria.

Although I also accept they don't work for everyone as people have different criteria.

[soupdragon1]

Got a big Diesel SUV that we need for towing so quite easy to accomodate an EV into the household. Would be a difficult choice to make if we were a 1 car family and not sure we would go for an EV if that was the case. Maybe.

My only regret with buying an EV was buying a new one last year. The used market is cracking value right now, so if it stays that way, I'll be straight in and picking up a bargain EV in the future. Got a home charger and solar panels to top up the battery so I'm kind of all set for an EV future.

Saying that, I'm not behind the Govts around the world pushing us towards EV's. There is other things we could be doing that can have an impact on Co2 reduction so this whole everyone in an EV by 2035 isn't something I agree with. Stinks of lazy legislation to me. I like the idea of clean air though, so maybe legislate for hybrid tech instead, and emission free zones where you can bring your car into heavily populated areas, as long as its not outputting fumes. I would find that more palatable than just a straight blanket ban by 2035.

[Castrol for a knave]

I finally left the car allowance behind and got an i4.

Having run my own cars for years (less 2 in a M3LR) I am converted to an EV for the daily. I do some decent days out - 300 plus miles is not unusual and yes, using the charging network can sting. However, I pay a fiver for discounted Ionity and £10 to use the 25 or so Tesla superchargers, which are often enroute.

It works for me. No BiK, no worries about using my own money and financing depreciation, borkage or servicing etc. 0 % to 100% is 6 quid overnight.

I am trying to convince the wife to use it when I am WFH, but it is like trying to explain an iPhone to Catweasel, despite the fact she is always moaning about having to fill up her commuter pig up with diesel.

[SWoll]

cerb4.5lee said:

My biggest gripe with them is that they've actually took us backwards rather than forwards. Progress should make things better/easier I think, but EVs just don't work like that though in my opinion.

They will never be better than ICE for me, different yes, better...definitely not as you say.

As we've discussed before, better is subjective. For me in a daily use car to do the commute/school taxi/shops/family visits the list of improvements over an ICE car of a similar size is considerable.

Smoother
Quieter
Easier to drive
More responsive
More practical (better packaging)
Lower maintenance
Lower fuel costs

Yes they are more of a pain on longer journeys, but that's use case specific and won't affect everyone. And there's very little for the car enthusiast to enjoy, but that just gives you an excuse to buy something else that's noisy and utterly impractical.

[KingGary]

SWoll said:

cerb4.5lee said:

My biggest gripe with them is that they've actually took us backwards rather than forwards. Progress should make things better/easier I think, but EVs just don't work like that though in my opinion.

They will never be better than ICE for me, different yes, better...definitely not as you say.

As we've discussed before, better is subjective. For me in a daily use car to do the commute/school taxi/shops/family visits the list of improvements over an ICE car of a similar size is considerable.

Smoother
Quieter
Easier to drive
More responsive
More practical (better packaging)
Lower maintenance
Lower fuel costs

Yes they are more of a pain on longer journeys, but that's use case specific and won't affect everyone. And there's very little for the car enthusiast to enjoy, but that just gives you an excuse to buy something else that's noisy and utterly impractical.

I’d say those are characteristics , they don’t make an EV better at being a car which is what I think we are discussing. As has been said many times, when they can compete like for like on range and price, the choice will simply come down to which one you prefer.

[Chasing Potatoes]

Define a car then. Wikipedia list it as:

A car, or an automobile, is a motor vehicle with wheels. Most definitions of cars state that they run primarily on roads, seat one to eight people, have four wheels, and mainly transport people, not cargo.

Because I think if you'd listed these:

Smoother
Quieter
Easier to drive
More responsive
More practical (better packaging)
Lower maintenance
Lower fuel costs

for an ICE car you'd be very much saying they're what make it a better car. After all those are often sought-after with any car. It does feel like you're engaged in an ongoing semantic debate to ignore the parts that don't suit you. Today it's that cost must be equal.

Edited by Chasing Potatoes on Monday 15th April 18:38

[SWoll]

KingGary said:

I’d say those are characteristics , they don’t make an EV better at being a car which is what I think we are discussing. As has been said many times, when they can compete like for like on range and price, the choice will simply come down to which one you prefer.

As I said, it's subjective. For me all of those things are benefits of an EV that make them a better car for daily duties.

Quite why anyone would want a noisier, less responsive, less practical, more awkward and higher maintenance car for that use case is beyond me, but each to their own of course.

On the used market they are already outcompeting ICE cars on price, and range is another requirement completely dependent on the user and their needs.

[Pistonheadsdicoverer]

smn159 said:

I took a punt on an older Model S recently for under £15k., Had a Zoe a few years ago on one of the early cheap lease deals so I had the charger already but had gone back to ICE for a while when the Zoe lease was up

Really enjoying the Tesla so far.

What sort of mileage was it on there? I suspect there's no warranty left so if there was a problem with the battery, it might be v expensive.

[SWoll]

Pistonheadsdicoverer said:

smn159 said:

I took a punt on an older Model S recently for under £15k., Had a Zoe a few years ago on one of the early cheap lease deals so I had the charger already but had gone back to ICE for a while when the Zoe lease was up

Really enjoying the Tesla so far.

What sort of mileage was it on there? I suspect there's no warranty left so if there was a problem with the battery, it might be v expensive.

As I imagine would something major going wrong on any £15k used car that started life nearer to £100k?

[Nomme de Plum]

Surely a the motor car was a replacement for travel by horse and wagon. It was intended as a tool to carry people and goods.

It is interesting that the electric car was a thing in early car development but with plentiful oil in the USA and limited electrical power and battery technology the ICE was always going to be the early successor.

Now we have much better and more advanced electrical and electronic technologies and the electric motor/battery combination out performs the ICE for most normal personal transport usage. With average journeys typically 10-20 miles it is easily within all currently available EVs.

Timing is important as well. We used to have sales reps and people driving all over the place just for a meeting. Now much of this can be done on line so mostly it will be technicians that need to physically fix something on site that do the travelling. This is continually evolving and we will find less and less people needing to drive as part of their work. This is evidenced by ever decreasing annual milages which is around 7,400 miles now.

[smn159]

Pistonheadsdicoverer said:

smn159 said:

I took a punt on an older Model S recently for under £15k., Had a Zoe a few years ago on one of the early cheap lease deals so I had the charger already but had gone back to ICE for a while when the Zoe lease was up

Really enjoying the Tesla so far.

What sort of mileage was it on there? I suspect there's no warranty left so if there was a problem with the battery, it might be v expensive.

90k and there's still 8 months left on the drive train and battery warranties. Batteries can be repaired these days though and if I'd bought a higher end ICE car it could have an expensive engine issue.

Mileage is not so much of an issue on these though. more age and charging cycles. I've checked the battery degradation and it's exactly in line with the rest of the Tesla 'fleet' at about 8%

[Nomme de Plum]

Pistonheadsdicoverer said:

smn159 said:

I took a punt on an older Model S recently for under £15k., Had a Zoe a few years ago on one of the early cheap lease deals so I had the charger already but had gone back to ICE for a while when the Zoe lease was up

Really enjoying the Tesla so far.

What sort of mileage was it on there? I suspect there's no warranty left so if there was a problem with the battery, it might be v expensive.

If you have ever rebuilt an engine and or gearbox you'd know how many parts there are a relatively complicated they are, an electric motor is very much simpler by comparison and there is little to go wrong as the parts that will wear are the rotor bearings. The number of electric motors in use dwarfs the number of ICEs and they are used for good reason. Cost effective and low maintenance.

It is not typical for whole battery banks to fail and repair of defective cells is possible. We are at the point where battery life will match the typical life of a car. Now battery development is about increased power density and cost. Longevity is largely given.

Edited by Nomme de Plum on Monday 15th April 18:38

[DaveCWK]

cerb4.5lee said:

distinctivedesign said:

Another thing - to scotch some of the nonsense on this forum. Be very clear that EV's are not better than ICE. They simply aren't. What they are is different. If that difference works for you, then great, but they are not better. Like all things, they have good points and bad points - it is just that these points are different to ICE cars.

My biggest gripe with them is that they've actually took us backwards rather than forwards. Progress should make things better/easier I think, but EVs just don't work like that though in my opinion.

They will never be better than ICE for me, different yes, better...definitely not as you say.

In a world of walking & using horses, a cheap mass manufactured bicycle is a step forwards
In a world of bicycles, a pedal-less motorbike is a step forward
In a world of motorbikes, a multi seat dry car is a step forward.
In a world of modern cars which are quiet, reliable, economical & with a solid infrastructure backup, an EV is...an alternative.

As said it's not the fault of EV's more a subset of their proponents.

Personally I think choice is good, & i'm still hovering about considering buying a 2nd hand i3.
I'll await the battery tech to progress & ultimately enable cost effective personal drone transportation. Then i'll have my step forward

[a311]

I should really just take the plunge and try EV ownership. I WFH and the wife about 2 miles away we've had PHEV for the last 3 years and it's a good compromise I'd say >90% of our journeys are done on full electric. I think 99% of our journeys would be within the range of most EV's however my wife's family are about 250 miles away which is the last barrier to EV ownership as I'm not sure what is available that will have that sort of real world range for fully loaded up journeys with 2 adults, 2 kids 1 dog, luggage and potentially a roof box.

The reality is we stop at least once on this journey so would just have to be a bit more organised to plan a lunch stop somewhere we could get a top up charge. We tend to rent cottages that have a garden for the dog so whenever I take the PHEV I've got a decent extension and take the charger so could just do the same with a full EV. Do the batteries discharge much when they're sat idle? When we go on holiday abroad we park up at the airport and leave the car for the duration, our nearest airports are 200-300 mile round trips so I guess getting off a late night flight and not having enough range to get home is less than ideal.

[TheDeuce]

a311 said:

I should really just take the plunge and try EV ownership. I WFH and the wife about 2 miles away we've had PHEV for the last 3 years and it's a good compromise I'd say >90% of our journeys are done on full electric. I think 99% of our journeys would be within the range of most EV's however my wife's family are about 250 miles away which is the last barrier to EV ownership as I'm not sure what is available that will have that sort of real world range for fully loaded up journeys with 2 adults, 2 kids 1 dog, luggage and potentially a roof box.

The reality is we stop at least once on this journey so would just have to be a bit more organised to plan a lunch stop somewhere we could get a top up charge. We tend to rent cottages that have a garden for the dog so whenever I take the PHEV I've got a decent extension and take the charger so could just do the same with a full EV. Do the batteries discharge much when they're sat idle? When we go on holiday abroad we park up at the airport and leave the car for the duration, our nearest airports are 200-300 mile round trips so I guess getting off a late night flight and not having enough range to get home is less than ideal.

Plot your route on zap map and check out how many rapid chargers there are along the route - in any 200 mile range EV you'd be looking at a ten minute stop on the way there and one on the way back - I'm guessing you stop for longer than that already.

EV's don't lose range sat idle, at least not to a noticeable degree. I think the last time I left mine parked at the airport I lost 1% in a week. It's not a factor really.

[skilly1]

I had one of the first Bmw i3 in the UK. Did 80,000 miles on it in three years and then had another one, for another three years and another 80,000 miles.

Then had a Tesla model three, drove that for about 60,000 miles. Overall, I’ve been driving EV for around 8-9 years.

These have all been Company cars, I no longer have to commute or have a company car and I’ve gone back to petrol. Bought myself a GR Yaris which is absolutely ace and a real break from the electric car era!

I won’t get an electric car now until it makes financial sense, I’ve done my bit for the environment, time to have some fun!