Can you mix LPG and NOS?

[plasticpig]

Is it possible to have an LPG system installed and a NOS system at the same time and use NOS whilst on LPG?

[GreenV8S]

Having tried neither ...

I don't see why not. I can't think of any fundamental reason why they wouldn't work together. Both of them result in a cooler charge so in extreme cases I guess that might lead to some unexpected behaviour, but in small quantities I would have thought it was worth a try.

[G_T]

Another non-user here...

I think the question is why use LPG at all if youre looking a higher power application?

There's in a built in power loss associated with all LPG running due to physics of gas fuels (most of which I've forgotten). With that partial anecdote in mind, and the ability of modern LPG kits to switch from gas to petrol at the flick of microswitch. Why bother?

You can run LPG and then simply switch back to petrol (or set up the ECU to switch to petrol at specific RPM) then you could be running back on petrol and then you can run your Nitrous, care free.

IMO, No need to run both at the same time if have a decent set up. Ring the bods at Tinley Tech if you're serious. They'll advise you correctly I'm sure.

[glazbagun]

I think you can use nitrous oxide with just about anything that burns.

[GreenV8S]

G_T said:

I think the question is why use LPG at all if youre looking a higher power application?

LPG is far less prone to detonation that petrol, and I've been intrigued by the possibility of combining that with forced induction.

[Ry_B]

To the OP, do you mean a Nitrous Oxide kit, or the actual brand with the name NOS?

[nottyash]

[quote=G_T]Another non-user here...

I think the question is why use LPG at all if youre looking a higher power application?

quote]

Totally wrong there mate.
LPG is actually about 105 octane, so the tuning capabilitys are far more than even super unleaded can achieve.
Of course you will have to map the engine to achieve it though.

[rottie102]

Ry_B said:

To the OP, do you mean a Nitrous Oxide kit, or the actual brand with the name NOS?

Is it really so important???

[Ry_B]

rottie102 said:

Ry_B said:

To the OP, do you mean a Nitrous Oxide kit, or the actual brand with the name NOS?

Is it really so important???

Yeh I think maybe the OP just has a NOS kit and not any old nitrous oxide kit installed so is looking to see if his NOS kit will work?

[plasticpig]

Thanks for the replies. I am talking about Nitrous Oxide and not the fuel additive. Not looking to actually have such a setup. Just an idle discussion in the office about whether such a setup would be possible.

[G_T]

nottyash said:

G_T said:

Another non-user here...

I think the question is why use LPG at all if youre looking a higher power application?

Totally wrong there mate.
LPG is actually about 105 octane, so the tuning capabilitys are far more than even super unleaded can achieve.
Of course you will have to map the engine to achieve it though.

Erm? 105 octane relates to the burn, nothing to due with the power and the problem here isn't "pinking".

As I understand it, LPG has lower calorific value compared to petrol so, IMO, it seems daft to use it as a performance fuel. You'd have to pump in far more of it and you're also not getting the same cooling properties as you do with a liquid fuel because the thermal capacitiy of liquids compared to gases.

I would strongly advise you all to have a good look at some "High power" LPG applications. I'm open to be proven wrong on this but all the best performance applications I've seen involve switching back to petrol under higher loads. There's always a loss in power on LPG for the reasons I've mentioned.

Edited by G_T on Tuesday 28th July 14:11

[nottyash]

G_T said:

nottyash said:

G_T said:

Another non-user here...

I think the question is why use LPG at all if youre looking a higher power application?

Totally wrong there mate.
LPG is actually about 105 octane, so the tuning capabilitys are far more than even super unleaded can achieve.
Of course you will have to map the engine to achieve it though.

Erm? 105 octane relates to the burn, nothing to due with the power and the problem here isn't "pinking".

As I understand it, LPG has lower calorific value compared to petrol so, IMO, it seems daft to use it as a performance fuel. You'd have to pump in far more of it and you're also not getting the same cooling properties as you do with a liquid fuel because the thermal capacitiy of liquids compared to gases.

I would strongly advise you all to have a good look at some "High power" LPG applications. I'm open to be proven wrong on this but all the best performance applications I've seen involve switching back to petrol under higher loads. There's always a loss in power on LPG for the reasons I've mentioned.

Edited by G_T on Tuesday 28th July 14:11

I see what you say, but a well known tuning company called REVO provided my info.
Maybe the problem is you do use more so the gains are minimal? but from what I hear you can achieve more.

[Chris71]

GreenV8S said:

G_T said:

I think the question is why use LPG at all if youre looking a higher power application?

LPG is far less prone to detonation that petrol, and I've been intrigued by the possibility of combining that with forced induction.

I guess it means you can also overcome the power loss of LPG when you feel like it, with little penalty in economy the rest of the time?

[GreenV8S]

Chris71 said:

I guess it means you can also overcome the power loss of LPG when you feel like it, with little penalty in economy the rest of the time?

Economy (in terms of miles per pound, rather than miles per gallon) should be much better with LPG. And the forced induction would more than offset the loss of performance from LPG. In fact I suspect that forced induction with LPG has the potential to produce more power than forced induction with petrol, because of the extra charge cooling and resistance to detonation that LPG gives.

I doubt it will ever get beyond the stage of wondering, but you never know. I've got the forced induction, and I know people who run RV8s on LPG ...

[Balmoral Green]

plasticpig said:

Not looking to actually have such a setup.

Aww, I thought it was for your new toy!

[Pigeon]

G_T said:

As I understand it, LPG has lower calorific value compared to petrol so, IMO, it seems daft to use it as a performance fuel. You'd have to pump in far more of it and you're also not getting the same cooling properties as you do with a liquid fuel because the thermal capacitiy of liquids compared to gases.

I would strongly advise you all to have a good look at some "High power" LPG applications. I'm open to be proven wrong on this but all the best performance applications I've seen involve switching back to petrol under higher loads. There's always a loss in power on LPG for the reasons I've mentioned.

LPG does have a lower calorific value than petrol but it also has a significantly higher octane rating so you can run higher compression which improves efficiency. It also has a significantly greater - not lesser - charge-cooling effect. This is particularly useful in an FI setup.

I'm not entirely sure where the balance works out to be but I'm pretty sure it works out on the side of LPG.

The reason for switching back to petrol is that if the engine is designed to run on both petrol and LPG then it will have to have the lower compression ratio suitable for petrol and therefore will not be able to take full advantage of the characteristics of LPG.

With a turbo setup you could set it up to run more boost with LPG than with petrol and it could be interesting to try.

[nottyash]

Pigeon said:

G_T said:

As I understand it, LPG has lower calorific value compared to petrol so, IMO, it seems daft to use it as a performance fuel. You'd have to pump in far more of it and you're also not getting the same cooling properties as you do with a liquid fuel because the thermal capacitiy of liquids compared to gases.

I would strongly advise you all to have a good look at some "High power" LPG applications. I'm open to be proven wrong on this but all the best performance applications I've seen involve switching back to petrol under higher loads. There's always a loss in power on LPG for the reasons I've mentioned.

LPG does have a lower calorific value than petrol but it also has a significantly higher octane rating so you can run higher compression which improves efficiency. It also has a significantly greater - not lesser - charge-cooling effect. This is particularly useful in an FI setup.

I'm not entirely sure where the balance works out to be but I'm pretty sure it works out on the side of LPG.

The reason for switching back to petrol is that if the engine is designed to run on both petrol and LPG then it will have to have the lower compression ratio suitable for petrol and therefore will not be able to take full advantage of the characteristics of LPG.

With a turbo setup you could set it up to run more boost with LPG than with petrol and it could be interesting to try.

So what I said is correct, but you would have to be pretty serious about performance gains to bother.