If Le Man was all electric would you still go to it?

[//j17]

collieek said:

No Chance.

It was bad enough when the first Audi diesels came in, if you were not looking you would not know they had passed.

The sound is so much part of the attraction one of the reasons I attend the classic now and not the modern 24 hour.

So you'd have preferred Audi to pull out after the 2005 season (what did they have left to gain with another petrol win?), never had Peugeot join in 2008 (also diesel) and almost certainly never had either Toyota join in 2012 (not worth the money just to fight privateers) or Porsche in 2014 (not worth the money with no Audi to challenge the 'most wins' crown)?

[TransverseTight]

I've had an i3 REX for 3.5 years and just swapped to a Passat GTE estate, so for personal use am an EV Convert. But for racing... nope. My favorite sound is the Aston Vantage GTE ... er I knew that name was familair! LOL

Besides, there's no tech on the market yet that would allow a car at race speeds to run more than about 2 laps. Solid state batteries due in about 2022/23 might help with 3-4x current energy density, and can run 10C charge / discharge rates, vs about 3C for short period on current wet cells. But you'll still need a huge battery to do 11 x14km laps at approaching 200mph. So I think it will be over a decade or more before we see pure EVs competing in the main classes. Like other have said... I'd be interested to see an EV run Garage 56, and have either a fast swap battery, or hopefully not - spare car which is a bit pants idea.

Hybrids are fine as they allow you to capture energy that would otherwise be lost as heat in the friction brakes, and fill in the engine flat spots, all common sense for endurance racing, and less pad wear too. My i3 has done 83k and still has 6mm front pads and 8mm at the rears left!

PS - you can run an EV on green energy tariff as we have an energy market where you can choose who your supplier is and where they buy their electricity from. The key thing is where are the emissions emitted and therefore I know I've not filled anyone's lungs with NOX and PM2.5/5.0 in the last few years.

[collieek]

//j17 said:

So you'd have preferred Audi to pull out after the 2005 season (what did they have left to gain with another petrol win?), never had Peugeot join in 2008 (also diesel) and almost certainly never had either Toyota join in 2012 (not worth the money just to fight privateers) or Porsche in 2014 (not worth the money with no Audi to challenge the 'most wins' crown)?

All I am saying is the noise is a big part of the spectacle for me.
I am not sure if you were there when they raced the first time, if you were you would have noticed they were a lot nosier the following year.
Like people have said it`s the different sounds of the cars V8s V10 V12 with the classic you get this hardly and variation with the modern cars now.
You could not beat the old group c cars will never forget the Mazda`s you could hear them going around the whole circuit when camping in the centre.

[//j17]

collieek said:

All I am saying is the noise is a big part of the spectacle for me.
I am not sure if you were there when [Audi TDIs] raced the first time, if you were you would have noticed they were a lot nosier the following year.

I was, and I did. I was also paying attention to radio Le Mans who made it clear WHY they were so quiet the first year. The ACO didn't really want the diesels so put in place unnecessarily strict smoke limits. Audi realised meeting these would also limit noise and that there was marketing milage in that so made the cars a quiet as possible. Lets face it the big story that came out of the 2006 race was "My, aren't the Audi diesels quiet!".

Personally yes, the noise is part of it but I'm more inclined to watch an electric endurance race, where technology is being pushed to the limits than one consisting of loads of little shopping cars with baked bean can exhausts.

[collieek]

So you think the Group C cars are little shopping cars!

[Welshbeef]

Group C cars are epic - I’ve never been to Le Mans but have seen them in demonstration races at Silverstone classic.

Great looking cars
Brutal sound - you hear them a long way off
The vibrations when they pass
The noise as they approach you and the different noise from behind.

I recall the 1000km race at Silverstone with LeMans series vehicles. I don’t recall any diesels in it (possibly) but we were at Beckets (the last corner) we could hear the vast field building up 2 by two and then ogogogogo what an amazing sound.

[//j17]

collieek said:

So you think the Group C cars are little shopping cars!

WTF? How do you get THAT from the rest of the thread?!?!

As Le Mans has never been all electric in the past and the thread title uses the word "would" I'd assumed it was about the future of Le Mans, not the past. Unless you seriously believe the ACO would consider turning the clock back to the 1980s on their race founded in pushing autotmotice technology to the limits then Group C has nothing to go with it.

I was simply pointing out that I'd rather attend an all electric Le Mans than one made up of shopping cart cars with chav-tastic exhausts. One would be quiet but fast and really push the limits of the technology, giving teams the challenge of ballancing performance against endurance. The other would be loud but... Well it would just be loud, and it seems that's all that matters to some people so they should be happy?

[Le_Mans]

//j17 said:

collieek said:

So you think the Group C cars are little shopping cars!

WTF? How do you get THAT from the rest of the thread?!?!

As Le Mans has never been all electric in the past and the thread title uses the word "would" I'd assumed it was about the future of Le Mans, not the past. Unless you seriously believe the ACO would consider turning the clock back to the 1980s on their race founded in pushing autotmotice technology to the limits then Group C has nothing to go with it.

I was simply pointing out that I'd rather attend an all electric Le Mans than one made up of shopping cart cars with chav-tastic exhausts. One would be quiet but fast and really push the limits of the technology, giving teams the challenge of ballancing performance against endurance. The other would be loud but... Well it would just be loud, and it seems that's all that matters to some people so they should be happy?

Anybody who may consider attending an all electric Le Mans in the future, please play this clip with the volume cranked up (and wait for the Corvette...). Yes, call me shallow and old-fashioned but loud makes me happy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWFxbu69V9k

[DS240]

An electric Le Mans is a long way off. The tech isn’t ready to make it anywhere near viable.

I love the noise of the astons and corvettes mixed in the screech of the ferraris and lmps’s, but I also quite liked the diesel whooooosh..

I believe the engine guy at Audi described noise as lost energy, so we’re designed to be as quiet as possible.

I found them enjoyable to watch. Seeing the sheer speed and apparent silent efficiency of it was cool to watch. They seemed like they were being pushed along by an invisable force.

I do believe that noise does play a big part in the atmosphere of the event. I liked the mix of the loud and quiet as part of the spectacle. If every car was quiet, it would be comfortable for watching, but a lot more would be lost from the event.

That reality of electric cars for a 24hr race is a long way off though. Just look at Formula E.

[//j17]

DS240 said:

I love the noise of the astons and corvettes mixed in the screech of the ferraris and lmps’s, but I also quite liked the diesel whooooosh..

Enjoy the 'Vetts though really liked the noise of the new, mid-engined 911s and the Gibson v8 last year too.

DS240 said:

That reality of electric cars for a 24hr race is a long way off though. Just look at Formula E.

Ignoring the massive difference in power vs. regen times between circuits like the Paris e-prix and Sarthe even next year's 'single race' Formula E cars wouldn't be able to manage 7 laps on a full charge, half an LMP1 stint.

[icepop]

For the first event, yes, just to be there. They might allow the teams to run two cars, so the driver can swap cars at the pit stop, rather than batteries, and sort the oher one out whilst number 2 is circulating....ad infinitum. Garage 56 will test any theories first I guess.

[olliethehut]

icepop said:

For the first event, yes, just to be there. They might allow the teams to run two cars, so the driver can swap cars at the pit stop, rather than batteries, and sort the oher one out whilst number 2 is circulating....ad infinitum. Garage 56 will test any theories first I guess.

Given the length of the race and space in paddock & garages, physically being able to service 2 cars per entry wouldn't work. Fine for FE, pretty impossible for a 50+ car grid.
LM is so much more than just a race, its the history, the sights, the smells and the sounds. Its an event and a festival of motorsport. If they go electric it would just make it different to how its been previously (much like it was before they changed the track / removed the old pits / fitted lights that work etc)
I cant see any way of going electric until battery tech has reached the point where they can be replaced and recharged safely, quickly; and in a way that enables cars to race each other. The manufactures are still some way away atm.

[//j17]

olliethehut said:

icepop said:

For the first event, yes, just to be there. They might allow the teams to run two cars, so the driver can swap cars at the pit stop, rather than batteries, and sort the oher one out whilst number 2 is circulating....ad infinitum. Garage 56 will test any theories first I guess.

Given the length of the race and space in paddock & garages, physically being able to service 2 cars per entry wouldn't work. Fine for FE, pretty impossible for a 50+ car grid.
LM is so much more than just a race, its the history, the sights, the smells and the sounds. Its an event and a festival of motorsport. If they go electric it would just make it different to how its been previously (much like it was before they changed the track / removed the old pits / fitted lights that work etc)
I cant see any way of going electric until battery tech has reached the point where they can be replaced and recharged safely, quickly; and in a way that enables cars to race each other. The manufactures are still some way away atm.

I don't think the 2 chassis approach is in the spirit of Le Mans. You aren't making a car that can last 24hrs, you're making 2 that can last 12hrs.

Either we need a huge leap in either battery performance and/or inductive charging loops in the road, or a significant jump in battery performance and battery packs that can be swapped as part of a pit-stop. Neither of which are going to happen for a good few years.

[davidd]

Charging loops in the road are the only way pure electric is going to work for a while. I'd definitely still go though.

[Le_Mans]

davidd said:

Charging loops in the road are the only way pure electric is going to work for a while. I'd definitely still go though.

[davidd]

Le_Mans said:

I was hoping they might be slightly less obvious than that

[//j17]

There is another option...

[99dndd]

If road car technology is incorporating induction charging then why shouldn't Le Mans?

It'll be my 1st Le Mans but I've been to 2 Silverstone 6hrs so I know what the cars are like.

One of my favourite elements of sportscar racing is the variety.

Love hearing a Corvette thunder past, a Ferrari 458 scream just after it, and an LMP2 making their lovely loud gearshift pops.

Why not throw an electric motor in there too?

I don't think I'd be as fussed if it went all electric, or all turbo either.

[Le_Mans]

99dndd said:

"I don't think I'd be as fussed if it went all electric..."

Clearly spoken by somebody who has never experienced the spectacle and noise of this incredible event. Let us know on Monday 18 June if you've changed your opinion.... ; )

Edited by Le_Mans on Tuesday 15th May 19:04