Goodbye LMP 1 hello Hypercars

Goodbye LMP 1 hello Hypercars

Author
Discussion

Trackdayguy

Original Poster:

339 posts

19 months

Sunday 14th July
quotequote all
Im struggling to understand why this is happening AGAIN. Based on the dismal failure by the ACO to provide a level playing field in LMP 1 in the 2019/20 season, Im struggling to feel confident that this new proposal isn't just another attempt to bring change for change sake.

This sounds remarkably like GT1 from the 90's

Red Firecracker

5,094 posts

175 months

Sunday 14th July
quotequote all
OEMs, it's all about OEMs.

The ACO need OEMs in WEC (all hail the three letter acronym) and with a disinterest in LMP1 from them now that Audi and Porsche have moved on (for now), they need something with relevance to attract the factory cars (and their money).

Will it work? As good a chance as anything else, to my mind. Will they have a full category of Hypercars by the start of the new regulations? Probably not, so LMP1 grandfathering (with privateer teams who are already leaving, such as SMP and a Rebellion team with possibly only 1 car this coming season) will happen.

Still, at least the kerfuffle keeps the mind off the growing issues of LMP2, where even the Ligier UK distributor is now going to run the only sensible option, an Oreca and that's before all the BoP adjustments that will accompany Hypercar and the 3:30 target lap time.

The French do love to live a complex life.

As Jacky Ickx said at last year's ACO press conference, "Never forget, Le Mans is here for the amateur drivers and teams, not just for the manufacturers”. Some would be well advised to heed those words, to my mind.

Edited by Red Firecracker on Sunday 14th July 08:30

24lemons

2,293 posts

133 months

Sunday 14th July
quotequote all
I think change is probably needed as the interest in LMP1 from manufacturers speaks for itself.

DPi has shown the value of having a race car that is recognisable as a Mazda/Cadillac/Acura and while many call for DPi to be introduced in ACO competition, the ACO maybe stubbornly won’t entertain the notion of adopting that formula.

Hypercar is an interesting concept and I hope that the move away from Equivalence of technology to Balance of Performance will me manageable. If they get it right it should leave the door open to a greater range of technologies and approaches from potential participants. If that means howling v12’s are competitive again then I’m all for it.

In my opinion the Valkyrie looks incredible (as did the GT1’s from the late 90’s) a top class filled with cars that look like that is no bad thing in my book.

Pericoloso

41,220 posts

111 months

Sunday 14th July
quotequote all
OEM and WEC are not acronyms.
An acronym is pronounced as a word.
SAAB
NASA
FIAT......acronyms.

BMW
BBC
WEC.....not acronyms.

chasingracecars

1,595 posts

45 months

Sunday 14th July
quotequote all
Mmm we say WEC like wek! Very rarely do we say W E C

Pericoloso

41,220 posts

111 months

Sunday 14th July
quotequote all
I do.
I also talk about WRC and WRX a bit too,so WEC just follows same pattern.
Sorry to divert away from the topic,just bugs me a little the misuse of the word acronym,something that Jeremy Clarkson has done on tv.

TwinKam

1,300 posts

43 months

Sunday 14th July
quotequote all
Pericoloso said:
I do.
I also talk about WRC and WRX a bit too,so WEC just follows same pattern.
Sorry to divert away from the topic,just bugs me a little the misuse of the word acronym,something that Jeremy Clarkson has done on tv.
...almost as annoying as text without spaces after commas! wink

Trackdayguy

Original Poster:

339 posts

19 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
Red Firecracker said:
OEMs, it's all about OEMs.

The ACO need OEMs in WEC (all hail the three letter acronym) and with a disinterest in LMP1 from them now that Audi and Porsche have moved on (for now), they need something with relevance to attract the factory cars (and their money).

Will it work? As good a chance as anything else, to my mind. Will they have a full category of Hypercars by the start of the new regulations? Probably not, so LMP1 grandfathering (with privateer teams who are already leaving, such as SMP and a Rebellion team with possibly only 1 car this coming season) will happen.

Still, at least the kerfuffle keeps the mind off the growing issues of LMP2, where even the Ligier UK distributor is now going to run the only sensible option, an Oreca and that's before all the BoP adjustments that will accompany Hypercar and the 3:30 target lap time.

The French do love to live a complex life.

As Jacky Ickx said at last year's ACO press conference, "Never forget, Le Mans is here for the amateur drivers and teams, not just for the manufacturers”. Some would be well advised to heed those words, to my mind.

Edited by Red Firecracker on Sunday 14th July 08:30
Great post

Trackdayguy

Original Poster:

339 posts

19 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
Pericoloso said:
OEM and WEC are not acronyms.
An acronym is pronounced as a word.
SAAB
NASA
FIAT......acronyms.

BMW
BBC
WEC.....not acronyms.
Stop being a dick head and get back on topic.....

Edited by Trackdayguy on Monday 15th July 03:01

Nerdherder

1,644 posts

45 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
Trackdayguy said:
Red Firecracker said:
OEMs, it's all about OEMs.

The ACO need OEMs in WEC (all hail the three letter acronym) and with a disinterest in LMP1 from them now that Audi and Porsche have moved on (for now), they need something with relevance to attract the factory cars (and their money).

Will it work? As good a chance as anything else, to my mind. Will they have a full category of Hypercars by the start of the new regulations? Probably not, so LMP1 grandfathering (with privateer teams who are already leaving, such as SMP and a Rebellion team with possibly only 1 car this coming season) will happen.

Still, at least the kerfuffle keeps the mind off the growing issues of LMP2, where even the Ligier UK distributor is now going to run the only sensible option, an Oreca and that's before all the BoP adjustments that will accompany Hypercar and the 3:30 target lap time.

The French do love to live a complex life.

As Jacky Ickx said at last year's ACO press conference, "Never forget, Le Mans is here for the amateur drivers and teams, not just for the manufacturers”. Some would be well advised to heed those words, to my mind.

Edited by Red Firecracker on Sunday 14th July 08:30
Great post
This exactly.

  • fixed the formatting

Edited by Nerdherder on Wednesday 28th August 19:50

//j17

3,313 posts

171 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
Trackdayguy said:
Im struggling to understand why this is happening AGAIN.
In a word - money. For Le Mans and the WEC to keep going you need manufacturers with deep pockets to spend the extra cash on hospitality space, etc.

Trackdayguy said:
Based on the dismal failure by the ACO to provide a level playing field in LMP 1 in the 2019/20 season, Im struggling to feel confident that this new proposal isn't just another attempt to bring change for change sake.
There was never any talk or target at providing a level playing field in LMP1 in the Super Season, basically because Toyota said "Having spent all this cash developing a hybrid car, take away our performance advantage and we'll pull out too.".

Red Firecracker

5,094 posts

175 months

Monday 15th July
quotequote all
//j17 said:
There was never any talk or target at providing a level playing field in LMP1 in the Super Season, basically because Toyota said "Having spent all this cash developing a hybrid car, take away our performance advantage and we'll pull out too.".
Which to a point, you have to respect, they came in a year early after a factory suddenly left, plus with Mr Alonso on board, they did really need to maximise that advantage for many fiscal reasons (WEC go to Spain, Mr Alonso leaves WEC, that one's a beauty). Toyota did eventually offer some performance nuggets back to try and get the gaps down a bit, but they would obviously never completely give up their advantage, so they were and are in the tricky position of having invested heavily (but not anywhere as much as Porsche or Audi) to a set of regs and then it all goes tits up through no fault of their own. They win and it's because they had no competition, they lose and it's because they threw it away. Whatever they do they will always be wrong in somebodies eyes.

One further thing to take into account with LMP1 and the performance differentials, is the tyres. They're all on (were on) the same Michelin rubber, designed for Hybrid cars and as such the non-Hybrids couldn't make the fronts work. There was a vote to allow the non-Hybrid cars to change rubber to a more suitable front, which as is the way in these things would have required a 100% vote for amongst the LMP1 teams. That vote failed and it, apparently, wasn't Toyota who voted no, it was one of the privateers. Would love to know who and what the reasons were behind that one.

Big Robbo

270 posts

94 months

Thursday 18th July
quotequote all
The hypercar rules look good but at least for the first year it will just be Toyota against Aston Martin. McLaren will watch, figure out if they can win decide against it and in two years time the ACO will be back to square one all because they are too stubborn to see IMSA has the right idea with DPi

Trackdayguy

Original Poster:

339 posts

19 months

Friday 19th July
quotequote all
Big Robbo said:
The hypercar rules look good but at least for the first year it will just be Toyota against Aston Martin. McLaren will watch, figure out if they can win decide against it and in two years time the ACO will be back to square one all because they are too stubborn to see IMSA has the right idea with DPi
YES, but I would like to suggest it may not be stubbornness, but possibly an over inflated opinion of who they are. Pride


Edited by Trackdayguy on Friday 19th July 02:22

//j17

3,313 posts

171 months

Friday 19th July
quotequote all
So the ACO/FIA should adopt the DPi regulations for Le Mans/the WEC?

The DPi regulations that are themselves coming to an end and about to be replaced (by the as yet unagreed DPi 2 regulations)?
The DPi regulations that the manufactureres and teams currently and exprssing an interest in racing in the top flight at Le Mans and in the WEC said they weren't interested in and either wouldn't join, or would leave if they were adopted?
They should adopt those DPi regulations?

Trackdayguy

Original Poster:

339 posts

19 months

Saturday 20th July
quotequote all
Bring back Can Am, a total free for all

Pericoloso

41,220 posts

111 months

Saturday 20th July
quotequote all
Trackdayguy said:
Stop being a dick head and get back on topic.....

Edited by Trackdayguy on Monday 15th July 03:01
Who elected you king of the internet ?

Name calling,so mature.

wsn03

852 posts

49 months

Saturday 20th July
quotequote all
Pericoloso said:
Trackdayguy said:
Stop being a dick head and get back on topic.....

Edited by Trackdayguy on Monday 15th July 03:01
Who elected you king of the internet ?

Name calling,so mature.
{Correction for you}

Who elected you king of the internet[no space]?
Name calling,[space]so mature


laugh


Edited by wsn03 on Saturday 20th July 08:11

Some Gump

11,141 posts

134 months

Monday 22nd July
quotequote all
Pericoloso said:
Who elected you king of the internet ?

Name calling,so mature.
I hereby nominate the other guy as king of the internet.

Big Robbo

270 posts

94 months

Monday 22nd July
quotequote all
Does he know the Le Mans cat??