Aston Martin out of Hypercar
Discussion
Tyre Smoke said:
Meanwhile, having been to Le Mans for the last 16 years, the excitement isn't the same when the top class has just three different entries with two cars each.
I just now ignore the few cars rushing past before the real race arrives 
I think it fair to say though that it (LMP1/Top Class) will get worse before it gets better, if at all. The TS050, the 919 and R18 were absolute beasts up close, especially into Eau Rouge for example, they really felt like a force of nature but now they are so neutered it's just 'normal'.FredericRobinson said:
Bykolles haven't shown up at all this season though, there's full season teams missing out
There aren't any WEC full season entries (who have raced this year) missing out, Le Mans now forms part of the WEC regulations (I personally don't agree with that, but can see why it is so. Just like double points). ByKolles were, to their credit, up front with the ACO and said early on, "we're stepping back from a full season this 'year', but we're coming back with a Hypercar" so I give them a little bit more leeway than some other teams. To be clear as well, I've ripped the pee out of ByKolles with the best of them 
It would seem that most of the ELMS LMP2 teams have got at least one entry, excepting Ultimate and BHK, who possibly didn't submit an entry, so I think it is a fair, if slightly uninspiring, Invitation List. The financial commitment just to lodge a request for an Invite is substantial, so I can see why teams that maybe aren't confident of attracting good drivers or sponsors think twice before diverting budget.
Just pretty colours going round and round at the end of the day
And at the moment, no Gulf livery, yay! 
I’m not sure what the answer is to the current situation.
I don’t know why there can’t be global regulations for different tiers, Gt1 (prototype/production.. think Porsche GT1), Gt2 (GTE Pro level), Gt3 (privateer/am level), Gt4 (club level).
Clearly defined rules which any maker from any country could provide a car for. Regional championships that feed into a world championship for showcase events like Le Mans.
Control tyres from any maker. 1 compound of dry (must last for min 1hr of racing), intermediate and full wet.
Race in any condition. If it starts raining, you change tyres, adjust wings, raise ride height etc etc. Not sit behind a safety car until it suits. It’s endurance racing.
Instead of efforts going into all sorts of different classes, just allow makers to produce cars that can be used anywhere and by customer teams.
LMP1 has been amazing to watch when there have been genuine battles going on. The machines were incredible. But I could cope without that type of car and instead have something like Porsche GT1’s, Mercedes GTR’s as the top tier. Have a minimum weight, max width, min height, max power.. bodywork can be whatever, mechanicals must be based on GT2 models to keep things under control.
I don’t want to watch formula types, same chassis and engines. I want to see technology and makers pushing each other to be fastest. You can’t take the reward of being better and faster away with bop.
I don’t know why there can’t be global regulations for different tiers, Gt1 (prototype/production.. think Porsche GT1), Gt2 (GTE Pro level), Gt3 (privateer/am level), Gt4 (club level).
Clearly defined rules which any maker from any country could provide a car for. Regional championships that feed into a world championship for showcase events like Le Mans.
Control tyres from any maker. 1 compound of dry (must last for min 1hr of racing), intermediate and full wet.
Race in any condition. If it starts raining, you change tyres, adjust wings, raise ride height etc etc. Not sit behind a safety car until it suits. It’s endurance racing.
Instead of efforts going into all sorts of different classes, just allow makers to produce cars that can be used anywhere and by customer teams.
LMP1 has been amazing to watch when there have been genuine battles going on. The machines were incredible. But I could cope without that type of car and instead have something like Porsche GT1’s, Mercedes GTR’s as the top tier. Have a minimum weight, max width, min height, max power.. bodywork can be whatever, mechanicals must be based on GT2 models to keep things under control.
I don’t want to watch formula types, same chassis and engines. I want to see technology and makers pushing each other to be fastest. You can’t take the reward of being better and faster away with bop.
In the late 1990s, after some rules changes that didn't work, Le Mans did change to a GT race, but the grandfathered prototypes won as they were more reliable. "Hypercars" like the McLaren F1 had some success, as did rear engined 911 "factory specials". Then thinly disguised prototypes appeared, like the "loop the loop" Mercedes. It all got a bit silly, so they went back to prototypes, and the Audi monopoly years started.
What we're looking at now is quite normal
What we're looking at now is quite normal
LawrieC said:
In the late 1990s, after some rules changes that didn't work, Le Mans did change to a GT race, but the grandfathered prototypes won as they were more reliable. "Hypercars" like the McLaren F1 had some success, as did rear engined 911 "factory specials". Then thinly disguised prototypes appeared, like the "loop the loop" Mercedes.
Possibly the last really interesting years, though. LMP1 was OK with Toyota, Audi and Porsche, but not in the same league as those years you mention.LawrieC said:
It all got a bit silly, so they went back to prototypes, and the Audi monopoly years started.
What we're looking at now is quite normal
And that was the start of the downward spiral, for me anyway.What we're looking at now is quite normal
I thinks it’s easy to malign the Audi years, but they came in for a relative long term and invested heavily into Le Mans.
I suppose it can be viewed they steamrolled everything but they went about things thoroughly and were up for the fight when others also stepped up.
Not only did they invest, but it brought about some worthwhile modernization at the circuit.
I suppose introducing proper customer cars could have expanded things, but modern LMP1 hasn’t really seen any customer capabilities.
Was it all sustainable is a different question. But they came and put everything into their effort. We saw some great battles with Peugeot, Toyota, Porsche.
Like Porsche, it’s a shame the axe was brought down so suddenly. That left a bitter taste.
I suppose it can be viewed they steamrolled everything but they went about things thoroughly and were up for the fight when others also stepped up.
Not only did they invest, but it brought about some worthwhile modernization at the circuit.
I suppose introducing proper customer cars could have expanded things, but modern LMP1 hasn’t really seen any customer capabilities.
Was it all sustainable is a different question. But they came and put everything into their effort. We saw some great battles with Peugeot, Toyota, Porsche.
Like Porsche, it’s a shame the axe was brought down so suddenly. That left a bitter taste.
LM240 said:
LMP1 has been amazing to watch when there have been genuine battles going on. The machines were incredible. But I could cope without that type of car and instead have something like Porsche GT1’s, Mercedes GTR’s as the top tier.
What, you mean some sort of regulations to have a top class based on the current crop of hybrid hypercars, like the A-M Valkyrie...?We need competition - several large budgets.
The Valkyrie may be ideal, but AM don't have the budget. There were several manufacturers keen on Hypercar, but most have lost interest, leaving the ACO in the sh!t. What a disgrace
Strangely, LMP2 has become very popular, probably due to smaller but more equal budgets. There was concern that Audi's budget was so large, nobody was going to risk that sort of money just to come second. Henri Pescarolo said that their budget was over ten times his, but he still managed second. And if you're spending Audi's budget, most manufacturers would prefer Formula One, even though you're not going to win straight away.
And with this dam virus, and the slump in car sales and everything else, there'll be few budgets for 20/21
The Valkyrie may be ideal, but AM don't have the budget. There were several manufacturers keen on Hypercar, but most have lost interest, leaving the ACO in the sh!t. What a disgrace
Strangely, LMP2 has become very popular, probably due to smaller but more equal budgets. There was concern that Audi's budget was so large, nobody was going to risk that sort of money just to come second. Henri Pescarolo said that their budget was over ten times his, but he still managed second. And if you're spending Audi's budget, most manufacturers would prefer Formula One, even though you're not going to win straight away.
And with this dam virus, and the slump in car sales and everything else, there'll be few budgets for 20/21
LawrieC said:
And if you're spending Audi's budget, most manufacturers would prefer Formula One, even though you're not going to win straight away.
You'll get more exposure from running mid-pack in F1 than winning Le Mans. It may be blasphemy to many, but I'd hazard a guess its true. As big as Le Mans is, or we think it is - it gets nowhere near the coverage your average F1 race gets. Maybe if the WEC/ Le Mans got far better mainstream media exposure, more manufacturers might think it worth spending on a programme?
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