Group C support race
Discussion
Funnily enough my partner in crime Clapham993 has gone eerily quiet over the last few days since ‘our’ generous offer was put forward! Normally we make our way down to the Chinese on Mulsanne about 10pm to 11pm time so I reckon about 8pm ought to allow enough time for quaffing and chatting with fellow Pistonheaders. Vario being separated from his Le Mans Chinese is not a pretty thing.
Whilst on the topic of the Chinese I was trying to explain what it’s like to the lady of my life and although I would be so bold as to suggest I’m rarely lost for the right word articulating this is next to impossible, it’s just so utterly fantastic. Whilst taking this trip down memory lane I remember the first time Clapham993 and I ventured there back in 88 (god help us we were only 18) and for the very first time seeing the XJR’s, Saubers et al at full chat. We were there when the WM Peugeot (the Mulsanne bomber) hit 252mph no wonder we keep going back!
Do I detect that the consensus thinks we are going to have to provide the drinks? Gentleman, once again the XJR Turbo’s were essentially sprint cars, that after all is why they were never run at the Sarthe circuit, thus with a higher down force chassis than the V12’s coupled to 850bhp will make them quicker that the tuned up Golf’s that will take pole for the main event.
XJR, faster than the Golf
Whilst on the topic of the Chinese I was trying to explain what it’s like to the lady of my life and although I would be so bold as to suggest I’m rarely lost for the right word articulating this is next to impossible, it’s just so utterly fantastic. Whilst taking this trip down memory lane I remember the first time Clapham993 and I ventured there back in 88 (god help us we were only 18) and for the very first time seeing the XJR’s, Saubers et al at full chat. We were there when the WM Peugeot (the Mulsanne bomber) hit 252mph no wonder we keep going back!
Do I detect that the consensus thinks we are going to have to provide the drinks? Gentleman, once again the XJR Turbo’s were essentially sprint cars, that after all is why they were never run at the Sarthe circuit, thus with a higher down force chassis than the V12’s coupled to 850bhp will make them quicker that the tuned up Golf’s that will take pole for the main event.
XJR, faster than the Golf
Cue old git remiscing time - Ah the good old days before high fences and gendarmes at Hunardieres when they let you stand right next to the armco to watch the cars go by and '88 was one of the best years.
Talking of sitting on the armco, I'm with you on this one however, because the main protagonist in the "they haven't got a hope" camp - Mark B won't be around - I will be representing his interests although when it comes to buying bottles of champers I'll drag Charles Crawley along as he clearly has a lot more money than I do.
Talking of sitting on the armco, I'm with you on this one however, because the main protagonist in the "they haven't got a hope" camp - Mark B won't be around - I will be representing his interests although when it comes to buying bottles of champers I'll drag Charles Crawley along as he clearly has a lot more money than I do.
Bobo W said:
Cue old git remiscing time - Ah the good old days before high fences and gendarmes at Hunardieres when they let you stand right next to the armco to watch the cars go by and '88 was one of the best years.
Talking of sitting on the armco, I'm with you on this one however, because the main protagonist in the "they haven't got a hope" camp - Mark B won't be around - I will be representing his interests although when it comes to buying bottles of champers I'll drag Charles Crawley along as he clearly has a lot more money than I do.
Have to say I'm gutted to have missed the earlier, less regulated, "safer" years... Though it was fun a few years ago sneaking around in the fields behind the Mulsanne...
I'll be more than happy to join ya for a bot or two... Though I'm not planning on being particularly flush with cash, due to car purchases...
On that note, I've decided to be sensible... ish... I've not got the time to decide between a Cerb and an Esprit before Le Mans, so I'm going to buy a Chimaera, as was my original plan and spend this year enjoying that and deciding between the two others for next year... I'm leaning more Cerb right now, but I'm bound to lean the other way at some point... Decisive, me?
Charles, I had a 4.5 Cerb. Which I took to the Sarthe three years ago when it P’d all weekend, not a problem in itself one might say apart from getting wet feet every time I hit a puddle. Oh silly me, I nearly forgot, the drivers window jammed open in Rouen on the way to the race thus making for a hugely enjoyable weekend. The offending beast was dumped back at the dealers 8.30am sharp on the Tuesday after we returned, I never drove it again. Take heed
vario-rob said:
Charles, I had a 4.5 Cerb. Which I took to the Sarthe three years ago when it P’d all weekend, not a problem in itself one might say apart from getting wet feet every time I hit a puddle. Oh silly me, I nearly forgot, the drivers window jammed open in Rouen on the way to the race thus making for a hugely enjoyable weekend. The offending beast was dumped back at the dealers 8.30am sharp on the Tuesday after we returned, I never drove it again. Take heed
That's fair enough... And heed taken... I think that something like that's possible with any of the cars I'm looking at... Comes with the territory... Small volume sportscar = possible issues... I'm not too worried though, as it's purely a fun car for me... I have no *need* for a car for work or whatever... I could get something like a Porsche with its better reputation for reliability, but they do nothing for me...
Thanks for the heads-up though!
Edited to add: So... You'll probably be bringing the Porsche that I've just noticed in your profile... Lovely...
>> Edited by charlescrawley on Friday 30th April 01:26
Guys, I thought I ought to come back into the fray, although you lot are really p***ing me off, I want to be at Le Sarthe sooo much... but hey ho.
Vario - best way to describe the Mulsanne, the cars go by faster than you can turn your head....... Does that make sense? I always used to describe it this way, you turn you head as fast as you can to watch the cars and they still go past faster....
Charles, you may want to have a word with our friend Mr Keeler (Goofy Bully) he has a 500 Chimeara for sale......... Bobo/Charles this of course may come as a shock, but again baby's get in the way of boys toys... He's getting another Scooby!!
I still stand by my statement, the Golfs will be quicker..... Remember the Bentley did more distance last year than ever achieved before... mind you they also only spent 23 minutes in the pits which let's face it was a pit stop length back in the early 90's late 80's.....
Vario - best way to describe the Mulsanne, the cars go by faster than you can turn your head....... Does that make sense? I always used to describe it this way, you turn you head as fast as you can to watch the cars and they still go past faster....
Charles, you may want to have a word with our friend Mr Keeler (Goofy Bully) he has a 500 Chimeara for sale......... Bobo/Charles this of course may come as a shock, but again baby's get in the way of boys toys... He's getting another Scooby!!
I still stand by my statement, the Golfs will be quicker..... Remember the Bentley did more distance last year than ever achieved before... mind you they also only spent 23 minutes in the pits which let's face it was a pit stop length back in the early 90's late 80's.....
Charles, Porsche at le Mans or TVR at Le Mans, the Porsche is going to le mans
Before you commit to offerings from Blackpool if you’ve never driven a 911 do invest a little of your time just to make sure. I’m guessing that if your budget bolts you into a Chim or a Cerb then you really are looking at very good 964’s or early 993’s. Funnily enough I’ve never been one for the old Porsche image thing either but Clpaham993 and I drove out respective steeds far harder and longer than you would ever get out of a the big Trevor’s to last years race.
Going down from Calais to Rouen we averaged over 1.3 (nudged a little over 1.7 as well) and that really does take some doing, in fact we beet a Zonda and Diablo purely because they needed fuelling so often. Different threads of the same rope ultimately but as clearly you love your cars do at least give one a go if you’ve never driven one.
Mark, I think your thoughts may have unpicked your own argument as the Group C race! With it only be an hour in duration the Don Law prepared Jag in the hands of Win Percy (I think) with bags of Sarthe experience will prevail. The car was never really designed to compete at the Sarthe as it was essentially a sprint car or never went for more than 1000km, thus the shrewd loot remains on the Group C interloper all 850 bhp of it.
Boring Golf derivate: Nil
850 bhp Browns Lane bomber: One
Rule Britannia
Before you commit to offerings from Blackpool if you’ve never driven a 911 do invest a little of your time just to make sure. I’m guessing that if your budget bolts you into a Chim or a Cerb then you really are looking at very good 964’s or early 993’s. Funnily enough I’ve never been one for the old Porsche image thing either but Clpaham993 and I drove out respective steeds far harder and longer than you would ever get out of a the big Trevor’s to last years race.
Going down from Calais to Rouen we averaged over 1.3 (nudged a little over 1.7 as well) and that really does take some doing, in fact we beet a Zonda and Diablo purely because they needed fuelling so often. Different threads of the same rope ultimately but as clearly you love your cars do at least give one a go if you’ve never driven one.
Mark, I think your thoughts may have unpicked your own argument as the Group C race! With it only be an hour in duration the Don Law prepared Jag in the hands of Win Percy (I think) with bags of Sarthe experience will prevail. The car was never really designed to compete at the Sarthe as it was essentially a sprint car or never went for more than 1000km, thus the shrewd loot remains on the Group C interloper all 850 bhp of it.
Boring Golf derivate: Nil
850 bhp Browns Lane bomber: One
Rule Britannia
vario-rob said:
Mark, I think your thoughts may have unpicked your own argument as the Group C race! With it only be an hour in duration the Don Law prepared Jag in the hands of Win Percy (I think) with bags of Sarthe experience will prevail. The car was never really designed to compete at the Sarthe as it was essentially a sprint car or never went for more than 1000km, thus the shrewd loot remains on the Group C interloper all 850 bhp of it.
Boring Golf derivate: Nil
850 bhp Browns Lane bomber: One
Rule Britannia
I would love to see Win in the car, he regularly drove a friends D Type and C Type, in fact he won all his races at the previous Classic Le Mans in the (ex Hawthorn I think) D Type, and a hell of a site to see too, especially drifting through indianopolis on the approach to Arnage. I even think he reported to have the car drifting through the Mulsanne kink at over 160!
He unfortuantely won't be in the XJR though as he is paralised from the waist down.... Apparently there is a possibility of him being at the Goodwood Revival in a Mark II Jag which is being modified to suit. My father went to Browns Lane for a charity do for him, met the likes of Tom Walkinshaw, Martin brundle, Mark Blundell etc who all raced with and against Win...
I still stand by my original statement, the VeeDub will be quicker, the Veloqcx team running the UK cars is made up of a lot of Team Bentley personnel and have a huge amount of knowledge of LM, I am confident the Group C's won't be quicker, although I will supply the boys (Bobo and Charles) with some Champers cash should you be right!
Sorry Mark, I had no idea Win had suffered so. I still recall the 88 visit watching the names you mention going about what they do best of such things are life long loves made.
As I sit here grazing, hanging above my desk is a couple of framed ACO prints of both the XJR winning cars I acquired from H&H’s last auction at Stoneleigh park, very proud of them I am as well!
Whilst on the Jag topic I popped up to Snetterton last summer (being only about 20 minutes away on some very nice B roads) as I had one of those rather idle summer Sundays and inadvertently wandered in on a historic group C race, very nice to. I was treated to the Aston EMKA (sp) and an early Group 44 Jag as well as various Tiga’s Argo’s Spice and such like which all made for a very acceptable Sunday in south Norfolk. And for the risk of sounding boring sport scar racing really isn’t what it was.
In my opinion I was fortunate (of a fashion) to watch the race which signaled its demise at Silverstone when me and my old chap were invited by Jaguar to watch the 1000k’s in 92. This being the year of the 3.5 litre ‘Atmo’ Jag, a more crushing drive I have never witnessed. Brundle had a technical glitch and was left to play catch up for the afternoon. If I recall there was a very young Shumi driving the flat 12 Merc that afternoon, he didn’t get a sniff It was plain to see that however enjoyable the cost would simply render the series to expensive, shame wouldn’t you say?
Whilst on the topic of costs, if the Tiv alternative is under 20k you can still get a very good 964 for this sort of lolly
As I sit here grazing, hanging above my desk is a couple of framed ACO prints of both the XJR winning cars I acquired from H&H’s last auction at Stoneleigh park, very proud of them I am as well!
Whilst on the Jag topic I popped up to Snetterton last summer (being only about 20 minutes away on some very nice B roads) as I had one of those rather idle summer Sundays and inadvertently wandered in on a historic group C race, very nice to. I was treated to the Aston EMKA (sp) and an early Group 44 Jag as well as various Tiga’s Argo’s Spice and such like which all made for a very acceptable Sunday in south Norfolk. And for the risk of sounding boring sport scar racing really isn’t what it was.
In my opinion I was fortunate (of a fashion) to watch the race which signaled its demise at Silverstone when me and my old chap were invited by Jaguar to watch the 1000k’s in 92. This being the year of the 3.5 litre ‘Atmo’ Jag, a more crushing drive I have never witnessed. Brundle had a technical glitch and was left to play catch up for the afternoon. If I recall there was a very young Shumi driving the flat 12 Merc that afternoon, he didn’t get a sniff
It was plain to see that however enjoyable the cost would simply render the series to expensive, shame wouldn’t you say? Whilst on the topic of costs, if the Tiv alternative is under 20k you can still get a very good 964 for this sort of lolly
Indeed - Win will not be driving at Le Mans, although we should not decry the other drivers (Law, Pearson et al) who are genuinely quick. However, tyres and brakes have moved on a long way since the Group C days. It is this,in conjuntion with the massive benefits of large professional teams that will (unfortunately) ensure that the VW`s will beat any Jagwar.
Vario-Rob, you sound like a man I should meet.... I hope you will be able to make the Classic LM I am sure we will be able to chat Jaguars for a fair while. I will be going with my father in his Series 1 E Type and we are both serious Jag nuts....
The era you are talking about, I went to see the 1000k's race at Brands, the year the Merc was punted off big style at the exit of clearways.... being a young wipper snapper at the time, I never knew I would turn to Le Mans like I did. I first went to LM 11 years ago with Bobo W and CharlesCrawley joined our group about 5 years ago.
I was trying to work our where you live, but if you are around I will be at Goodwood this BH Monday. There is a Jag E Type track day, I know Win and Pearman were there last year and the year before. Henry Pearman had a gorgeous white FHC E Type racer that was freaking quick, sounded great too.
On a slight aside, the Red/White Lotus Europa that frequents the Houx Annexe roundabout was sold by Eagle Racing which is now Henry Peaman's company.........
My first venture into motorsport was a driving test where I came second to Henry Pearman's Pirelli Marathon winning E Type....
The era you are talking about, I went to see the 1000k's race at Brands, the year the Merc was punted off big style at the exit of clearways.... being a young wipper snapper at the time, I never knew I would turn to Le Mans like I did. I first went to LM 11 years ago with Bobo W and CharlesCrawley joined our group about 5 years ago.
I was trying to work our where you live, but if you are around I will be at Goodwood this BH Monday. There is a Jag E Type track day, I know Win and Pearman were there last year and the year before. Henry Pearman had a gorgeous white FHC E Type racer that was freaking quick, sounded great too.
On a slight aside, the Red/White Lotus Europa that frequents the Houx Annexe roundabout was sold by Eagle Racing which is now Henry Peaman's company.........
My first venture into motorsport was a driving test where I came second to Henry Pearman's Pirelli Marathon winning E Type....
The trip down memory lane is an interesting one and probably deserves a separate thread as I imagine for quite a few people here, those early experiences were sowing the seeds at least from a motor racing perspective, as to why we continue to make the pilgrammage to Le Mans every year.
On a personal note living close the Brands Hatch enabled me to see all manner of motorsport although the initial main area of interest was F1. Our trips to the grand prix during the 80's (in fact I attended all the GP's, GP of Europe's and Race of Champions during this period) was very much the blueprint for what we do now albeit now we travel in nicer cars.
The interst in sportscars was borne out of going to the 6 hour races (latterly 1000k) from the mid 80's onwards. LM was always the goal, my brother having regularly reported the joys during his trips a decade earlier but I suppose it was the emerging presence of Jaguars at Lm first with Group 44 and then TWR that initiated the first trip in 1987. I went down by train on my tod and with no Radio LM it was an interesting experience !
In the intervening years my main mode of transport has been a Jaguar mk II which provided sedate progress but seemed very much in keeping with the surroundings.
Good times had by all.
On a personal note living close the Brands Hatch enabled me to see all manner of motorsport although the initial main area of interest was F1. Our trips to the grand prix during the 80's (in fact I attended all the GP's, GP of Europe's and Race of Champions during this period) was very much the blueprint for what we do now albeit now we travel in nicer cars.
The interst in sportscars was borne out of going to the 6 hour races (latterly 1000k) from the mid 80's onwards. LM was always the goal, my brother having regularly reported the joys during his trips a decade earlier but I suppose it was the emerging presence of Jaguars at Lm first with Group 44 and then TWR that initiated the first trip in 1987. I went down by train on my tod and with no Radio LM it was an interesting experience !
In the intervening years my main mode of transport has been a Jaguar mk II which provided sedate progress but seemed very much in keeping with the surroundings.
Good times had by all.
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