Buying a used hybrid. Scary?
Discussion
The selection of 3+ year old cars with electric/fossil fuel hybrid power trains is growing pretty steadily now.
Am I alone in being somewhat wary of them as a used car proposition?
Whether you fancy a big barge Lexus or a 'sensible' Toyota Auris (just a couple of examples) how hardy is the electric bit?
Are they ok, at 3 years, but not at 5? Or at 7? Or is mileage, rather than age a key factor?
Just an open question really. Fear of the unknown etc.
Am I alone in being somewhat wary of them as a used car proposition?
Whether you fancy a big barge Lexus or a 'sensible' Toyota Auris (just a couple of examples) how hardy is the electric bit?
Are they ok, at 3 years, but not at 5? Or at 7? Or is mileage, rather than age a key factor?
Just an open question really. Fear of the unknown etc.
Depends if you want to be a pioneer or not. The potential for biggish bills could be quite high a few years down the line. At the moment it's a big step into the unknown.
Mercedes discontinued the W212 E300 hybrid due to reliability issues so I wouldn't be tempted to buy one of those.
Edited to say Mercedes haven't yet replaced the E300 hybrid.
Mercedes discontinued the W212 E300 hybrid due to reliability issues so I wouldn't be tempted to buy one of those.
Edited to say Mercedes haven't yet replaced the E300 hybrid.
Edited by Monkeylegend on Sunday 9th October 09:58
I think the exact same rules apply as with regular cars. A Toyota hybrid will probably be trouble free, a Citroen hybrid less so 
I'm sure I've seen somewhere that the Prius is one of the most reliable cars sold in the US, and ALL the new cars in Sri Lanka were hybrids so I think the Japanese systems must be pretty robust.
I'm sure I've seen somewhere that the Prius is one of the most reliable cars sold in the US, and ALL the new cars in Sri Lanka were hybrids so I think the Japanese systems must be pretty robust.
The Prius has been around for 15 years: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1078138_toyota...
"The first, and most reassuring thing you should know about these battery packs, is that replacement is a rare occurrence. Toyota told us that the engineers consider the NiMH batteries in Prius and other Toyota hybrids to be a life-of-the-car component. It could be several owners and hundreds of thousands of miles down the line before the pack requires replacement, at which point the car itself may well be past its prime.
That's backed up by stories like the 300,000-mile Ford Escape hybrid taxis, and Consumer Reports recently tested a 215,000-mile 2003 Prius and found its performance had barely diminished. In the latter, the only component that had needed replacement was a fan belt, at 127,000 miles."
"The first, and most reassuring thing you should know about these battery packs, is that replacement is a rare occurrence. Toyota told us that the engineers consider the NiMH batteries in Prius and other Toyota hybrids to be a life-of-the-car component. It could be several owners and hundreds of thousands of miles down the line before the pack requires replacement, at which point the car itself may well be past its prime.
That's backed up by stories like the 300,000-mile Ford Escape hybrid taxis, and Consumer Reports recently tested a 215,000-mile 2003 Prius and found its performance had barely diminished. In the latter, the only component that had needed replacement was a fan belt, at 127,000 miles."
Toyota have been making the Prius for what, 15 years now?
I don't go out my way looking, and I'm not sure they'd necessarily be on Pistonheads but you don't seem to read too many horror stories about Toyota and Lexus hybrid failures.
I'd be much more wary of the newer efforts from the likes of BMW and Mercedes and others, happy to admit it's probably ignorance but Toyota seem to have basically got a 15 or so year head start on them as best as I can tell.
I don't go out my way looking, and I'm not sure they'd necessarily be on Pistonheads but you don't seem to read too many horror stories about Toyota and Lexus hybrid failures.
I'd be much more wary of the newer efforts from the likes of BMW and Mercedes and others, happy to admit it's probably ignorance but Toyota seem to have basically got a 15 or so year head start on them as best as I can tell.
I recently purchased a Lexus GS 450 h from a dealer and it comes with a fifteen year warranty on the battery pack, so long as the car is serviced by Lexus annually. I also received a three year unlimited mileage warranty excluding glass, tyres and standard battery for £900. Whats not to like? Three years time I shall probably have moved onto something else, with trouble free motoring and 25,000 more miles driven.
belleair302 said:
I recently purchased a Lexus GS 450 h from a dealer and it comes with a fifteen year warranty on the battery pack, so long as the car is serviced by Lexus annually. I also received a three year unlimited mileage warranty excluding glass, tyres and standard battery for £900. Whats not to like? Three years time I shall probably have moved onto something else, with trouble free motoring and 25,000 more miles driven.
Does the dealer service actually do anything to the battery pack to maintain its life? I fancy not.Horse for courses, but a £900 warranty and enforced main dealer servicing wouldn't appeal to me for a moment. Having said that, I guess I'm more likely to be in the market for 5 year old cars, which are generally out of main dealer scope.
jamei303 said:
The Prius has been around for 15 years: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1078138_toyota...
"The first, and most reassuring thing you should know about these battery packs, is that replacement is a rare occurrence. Toyota told us that the engineers consider the NiMH batteries in Prius and other Toyota hybrids to be a life-of-the-car component. It could be several owners and hundreds of thousands of miles down the line before the pack requires replacement, at which point the car itself may well be past its prime.
That's backed up by stories like the 300,000-mile Ford Escape hybrid taxis, and Consumer Reports recently tested a 215,000-mile 2003 Prius and found its performance had barely diminished. In the latter, the only component that had needed replacement was a fan belt, at 127,000 miles."
Also worth knowing that batteries can be refurbed for a few hundred pounds, certainly much less than say a clutch replacement on a modern car. I believe its only the very early prius traction battarey that can't be done. "The first, and most reassuring thing you should know about these battery packs, is that replacement is a rare occurrence. Toyota told us that the engineers consider the NiMH batteries in Prius and other Toyota hybrids to be a life-of-the-car component. It could be several owners and hundreds of thousands of miles down the line before the pack requires replacement, at which point the car itself may well be past its prime.
That's backed up by stories like the 300,000-mile Ford Escape hybrid taxis, and Consumer Reports recently tested a 215,000-mile 2003 Prius and found its performance had barely diminished. In the latter, the only component that had needed replacement was a fan belt, at 127,000 miles."
Prius seems to be the car of choice for my local station taxi rank, and I've asked a few times why they chose one. The answer is always reliability and econonmy.
Electrical/electronic systems are inherently more reliable than mechanical systems. Thats comes from 30 years experience of fixing and maintaining both.
Blue Oval84 said:
Most of London's private hire and Uber fleet can't be wrong. 
I'm sure we'd have heard a lot of horror stories by now if they were a big problem. Thinking about it logically, the electric powertrain should be a lot more reliable than the I/C one?
Moving parts, you're probably right... I guess it's the longevity of the battery packs I was concerned about. But there have been some useful and interesting comments/references^^ which suggest that 3-15 year old cars remain a good purchase I'm sure we'd have heard a lot of horror stories by now if they were a big problem. Thinking about it logically, the electric powertrain should be a lot more reliable than the I/C one?
Car of choice on our local Taxi rank too.
The Peugeot 406 of the 21st Century? & as Taxi's they will get a hard life
I've used them quite regularly & all I can say is they seem to go ok, the dash screen would drive me mad, they all seem to show the power distribution one!
Have noticed a lot of them have very noisy suspension though.
Major plus for you is that if you do buy one it won't be the latest incarnation. I'm not even sure it has the looks it's Mother could love!!
The Peugeot 406 of the 21st Century? & as Taxi's they will get a hard life
I've used them quite regularly & all I can say is they seem to go ok, the dash screen would drive me mad, they all seem to show the power distribution one!
Have noticed a lot of them have very noisy suspension though.
Major plus for you is that if you do buy one it won't be the latest incarnation. I'm not even sure it has the looks it's Mother could love!!
I'd have no problem buying a used Japanese hybrid. In fact, I did, in January. I bought a 2011 Honda Jazz Hybrid with 35,000 miles on it. I fancy that I'll keep it for ten years, by which point it'll be worth bugger all and I'll have had a lot of good use from it. I expect the battery will still be going strong, as there are still plenty of first generation Insights on the market.
I'd feel much the same about a Toyota or Lexus, like Honda, they've had a hybrid in the range for nearly two decades.
I'd feel much the same about a Toyota or Lexus, like Honda, they've had a hybrid in the range for nearly two decades.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Toyota have been making the Prius for what, 15 years now?
I don't go out my way looking, and I'm not sure they'd necessarily be on Pistonheads but you don't seem to read too many horror stories about Toyota and Lexus hybrid failures.
I'd be much more wary of the newer efforts from the likes of BMW and Mercedes and others, happy to admit it's probably ignorance but Toyota seem to have basically got a 15 or so year head start on them as best as I can tell.
Same here.I don't go out my way looking, and I'm not sure they'd necessarily be on Pistonheads but you don't seem to read too many horror stories about Toyota and Lexus hybrid failures.
I'd be much more wary of the newer efforts from the likes of BMW and Mercedes and others, happy to admit it's probably ignorance but Toyota seem to have basically got a 15 or so year head start on them as best as I can tell.
I'd have no problem buying a Toyota or Lexus hybrid, even with high mileage, because they are pretty much bulletproof. In many respects they are actually simpler than a non-hybrid - for example there is no transmission, no clutches, no accessory belt, no turbo, no DPF, no DMF...
Honda Insight - no problem. Again a simple and reliable design.
I wouldn't touch any of the German hybrids. Many of them seem to be quite complicated.
One way to gather evidence is to see what the minicab drivers buy. Around here (SE London) probably 80% of the minicabs are Prius.
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