Best Lease Car Deals Available? (Vol 4)

[Blown2CV]

TomScrut said:

Blown2CV said:

don't think it's that it's not selling well - just that the premium manufacturers all want to be the one that's seen as the best... and you do that by pushing numbers.

But it is an obscure model, if they just wanted numbers surely it would be C220ds they would be pushing?

christ on a bike talking about missing the point there... presumably you don't watch the news either.

Off topic, but worth explaining briefly. Diesel was already dying, but after the NOX emissions 'revelation' (i.e. the government has finally twigged on to what had always been the case) it is officially dead. No manufacturer really wants to flood UK streets with diesel cars. The point has always been that manufacturers are always on the lookout for hooks which they can boost PHEV and electrics off the back of, and diesel just keeps offering these up. So, they want to get huge numbers of these new type of cars out there because they knowing the mooing masses will assume that because they see a lot of them and barry down the street keeps going on about how good his is, they'll assume they are what they should be buying too. On top of that I am sure each manufacturer would like to be the one that finally 'breaks' PHEV and electrics into the proper suburban housing estate driveways mainstream.

[Fast Bug]

The tide is slowly turning on diesel. Quite a few of my fleet customers are now taking plug in hybrids after not having petrol for many years. One of my customers has taken diesel off his fleet altogther, he takes both plug ins and non hybrids. C350e is doing well, as is E350e. I've even had a run of GLE500e

I'm hoping the new A Class will have a plug in option, it'll be madness if they don't

[TomScrut]

Blown2CV said:

christ on a bike talking about missing the point there... presumably you don't watch the news either.

Off topic, but worth explaining briefly. Diesel was already dying, but after the NOX emissions 'revelation' (i.e. the government has finally twigged on to what had always been the case) it is officially dead. No manufacturer really wants to flood UK streets with diesel cars. The point has always been that manufacturers are always on the lookout for hooks which they can boost PHEV and electrics off the back of, and diesel just keeps offering these up. So, they want to get huge numbers of these new type of cars out there because they knowing the mooing masses will assume that because they see a lot of them and barry down the street keeps going on about how good his is, they'll assume they are what they should be buying too. On top of that I am sure each manufacturer would like to be the one that finally 'breaks' PHEV and electrics into the proper suburban housing estate driveways mainstream.

I'm well aware of the issues with diesel thanks. I don't need to watch the news for that as it directly affects my work. But the fact still remains that there will be more people on the lookout for a C class diesel than a hybrid one, maybe I came up with a bad example, I could have said C200 petrol, my point was more that the hybrid one has been targeted specifically (so wanting to increase its sales specifically) rather than just wanting to push numbers for which it would make more sense to push the models with the biggest market.

[TomScrut]

Fast Bug said:

The tide is slowly turning on diesel. Quite a few of my fleet customers are now taking plug in hybrids after not having petrol for many years. One of my customers has taken diesel off his fleet altogther, he takes both plug ins and non hybrids. C350e is doing well, as is E350e. I've even had a run of GLE500e

I'm hoping the new A Class will have a plug in option, it'll be madness if they don't

I think it will remain the primary choice for high mileage motorway users until PHEVs get to the point they are bettering diesels for mpg when the battery is being sustained by the car, or when the government are beating the hell out of diesel with tax nationwide making it no longer viable. I would imagine there are a fairly large amount of people who don't go to the bigger cities very often yet still do big miles (justifying a diesel), which is where they are on about introducing the charges first. But I can certainly see why fleets are changing especially if cities are involved in the daily use.

[AstonZagato]

I'm about to buy my first PHEV. The wife does about 30 miles per day. All around Cambridge (one of the first cities to apply for the right to charge diesels). She does some longer journeys too so full electric might be impractical.

To be honest, I'm not sure I'll ever buy another solely-ICE car again (assuming that my DBS is a keeper).

[Blown2CV]

TomScrut said:

Fast Bug said:

The tide is slowly turning on diesel. Quite a few of my fleet customers are now taking plug in hybrids after not having petrol for many years. One of my customers has taken diesel off his fleet altogther, he takes both plug ins and non hybrids. C350e is doing well, as is E350e. I've even had a run of GLE500e

I'm hoping the new A Class will have a plug in option, it'll be madness if they don't

I think it will remain the primary choice for high mileage motorway users until PHEVs get to the point they are bettering diesels for mpg when the battery is being sustained by the car, or when the government are beating the hell out of diesel with tax nationwide making it no longer viable. I would imagine there are a fairly large amount of people who don't go to the bigger cities very often yet still do big miles (justifying a diesel), which is where they are on about introducing the charges first. But I can certainly see why fleets are changing especially if cities are involved in the daily use.

again missing the point. There are a vast number of diesel drivers who don't do big miles - they just assume it's the best thing for them because they've been told it is or because they have only done one part of the required maths and ignored the rest. We all have that boring work colleague or neighbour who look at our PHer cars and then insist on telling us at length how many MPG theirs does, when we know they travel 10 mins there and back to work and occasional trips to the shops. The sort of people who will happily spend £20k on a new 2.0 diesel because "it's cheaper to run" or "old cars are unreliable" or whatever. If they actually did the real maths they'd find out that they aren't saving anything and are likely net worse off than running an older car or shock horror a petrol one.

I am not saying diesels will immediately disappear from the roads, but if the manufacturers start removing deals from these cars because they don't make economic sense for MOST drivers then they become the edge case niche choice, really only for photocopier salesmen and truckers.

[TomScrut]

Blown2CV said:

again missing the point. There are a vast number of diesel drivers who don't do big miles - they just assume it's the best thing for them because they've been told it is or because they have only done one part of the required maths and ignored the rest. We all have that boring work colleague or neighbour who look at our PHer cars and then insist on telling us at length how many MPG theirs does, when we know they travel 10 mins there and back to work and occasional trips to the shops. The sort of people who will happily spend £20k on a new 2.0 diesel because "it's cheaper to run" or "old cars are unreliable" or whatever. If they actually did the real maths they'd find out that they aren't saving anything and are likely net worse off than running an older car or shock horror a petrol one.

I am not saying diesels will immediately disappear from the roads, but if the manufacturers start removing deals from these cars because they don't make economic sense for MOST drivers then they become the edge case niche choice, really only for photocopier salesmen and truckers.

No, you are missing my point, or simply ignoring it. My post does specifically stipulate high mileage motorway users yet you want to talk about low mileage users who I have deliberately not commented on as there is no point in them having a diesel a lot of the time and so hopefully those people's cars will not be diesel for long, and I agree with the points you make above yet they have no bearing on the post you are replying to.

[Helicopter123]

Some interesting comments on diesel.

If manufacturers end up with temporary excess diesel capacity or production that they cannot sell, expect these to end up on the lease market, with cheap deals to get rid. Conversely, should demand move to PHEV and little supply, these deals will vanish.

[Fast Bug]

The days of manufacturers having fields full of cars has long gone. Sure there are vehicles in pipeline, but manufacturers can react a lot quicker these days to changes in demand.

Like I say the tide is slowly turning, it won't be a dramatic swing overnight. A friend of mine works with a lot of different manufacturers, and they all have plug ins planned for future models. It'll take a few years before diesel is outnumbered by phev, but I can see it happening for sure

[TomScrut]

Fast Bug said:

The days of manufacturers having fields full of cars has long gone. Sure there are vehicles in pipeline, but manufacturers can react a lot quicker these days to changes in demand.

Like I say the tide is slowly turning, it won't be a dramatic swing overnight. A friend of mine works with a lot of different manufacturers, and they all have plug ins planned for future models. It'll take a few years before diesel is outnumbered by phev, but I can see it happening for sure

It will happen unless something else comes along in the meantime, such as fully electric with practical charging times at a decent price with space for a family. The Tesla 3 may fit this bill. Hybrids have the issue of having to have two drivetrains (or two power sources for a shared drivetrain) and that to me means they are too much of a compromise to have serious longevity (as in say 30 years time).

[Markee68]

The big problem with hybrids is that you are lugging around batteries when in ICE mode and lugging around an ICE when in battery mode (not to mention a potentially full tank of fuel).

All electric cars take too long to charge in proportion to the distance you add by charging.

The future is in hydrogen fuel cells, just you wait and see....

Autocar are running a couple (Honda and Hyundai) on long term test.

[Sheepshanks]

Fast Bug said:

The days of manufacturers having fields full of cars has long gone. Sure there are vehicles in pipeline, but manufacturers can react a lot quicker these days to changes in demand.

Like I say the tide is slowly turning, it won't be a dramatic swing overnight. A friend of mine works with a lot of different manufacturers, and they all have plug ins planned for future models. It'll take a few years before diesel is outnumbered by phev, but I can see it happening for sure

March was the highest number of diesel registrations ever. April's figures are going to be interesting.

[AstonZagato]

Markee68 said:

The big problem with hybrids is that you are lugging around batteries when in ICE mode and lugging around an ICE when in battery mode (not to mention a potentially full tank of fuel).

All electric cars take too long to charge in proportion to the distance you add by charging.

The future is in hydrogen fuel cells, just you wait and see....

Autocar are running a couple (Honda and Hyundai) on long term test.

Maybe. It is very energy dense but it also is very difficult to store/transport, requiring high pressures and extremely low temperatures.

[Fast Bug]

Sheepshanks said:

Fast Bug said:

The days of manufacturers having fields full of cars has long gone. Sure there are vehicles in pipeline, but manufacturers can react a lot quicker these days to changes in demand.

Like I say the tide is slowly turning, it won't be a dramatic swing overnight. A friend of mine works with a lot of different manufacturers, and they all have plug ins planned for future models. It'll take a few years before diesel is outnumbered by phev, but I can see it happening for sure

March was the highest number of diesel registrations ever. April's figures are going to be interesting.

I'd imagine March was probably the highest number of PHEV registrations too. April will probably be down as so much got squeezed in to March to beat VED rises

[bazooka-joe]

So if sales decline over the next few months because of the pre-VED rush, will manufacturers start offering deals to get sales moving again?

[DannyW91]

Hi guys,

Looking for a bit of advice...

I've had an M135i a couple of years ago, and if I'm honest, I hated it, but I put that down to feeling unlinked to the car - I chose the auto, and always felt like I wasn't really 'driving' it. I bought an R8 after this, and scratched the itches that I had for a short period of time, but got rid of that to shove more money into my business. Since then, I've sort of lost interest in cars, and been driving around in an 8 year old A3, with 80k miles!

I fancy something a little newer but if I'm honest, I'll take more satisfaction in feeling like I have a bargain at the moment... I've just put my name down for a new Golf GTI on a lease... 3 + 23 £269pm, metallic silver white, 3 door manual + a £360 admin fee (!). Leasing is new to me really, and I think I'll be bored of the GTI after 12m or so.

Would I be better to get an M140i, my local dealer offers these at around £70 a month more through a pcp?

My other issue, I'm looking to move house this year and the mortgage advisor told me to keep my credit file as clean as possible... what will look worse on my credit file, a pcp for an M140i, or the lease for the GTI?

Please talk me into or out of either...

Thanks guys

[PenelopaPitstop]

PCP will look worse, because whole value of the car (except initial payment) will be put onto your credit file. In case of leasing, only actual debt will be on your file, for example 24 x £269.

[Sparky46]

Hello from a new one to the forum !

I've been reading over all the posts for the last several weeks and I'm looking into leasing/PCP on 2 cars, one for my wife and the other for me.
I'm very taken with the Audi S4 but I'm also interested Merc C350 and my wife likes the Merc GLC or the VW Touareg.
Just wondering what's people's thoughts on these and the best place for each car to get the best deal ?

Any help welcome ?

Cheers

[TomScrut]

Sparky46 said:

Hello from a new one to the forum !

I've been reading over all the posts for the last several weeks and I'm looking into leasing/PCP on 2 cars, one for my wife and the other for me.
I'm very taken with the Audi S4 but I'm also interested Merc C350 and my wife likes the Merc GLC or the VW Touareg.
Just wondering what's people's thoughts on these and the best place for each car to get the best deal ?

Any help welcome ?

Cheers

The S4s direct competition from Merc is the C43 not the C350 so not sure what your objectives are to be honest, especially since you have said you are also considering a Touareg and a GLC. From a financial point of view I would imagine an S4 lease being the cheapest option, unless deals are also to be done on the 350. Like for like the GLC and Touareg are dearer than the S4 on lease too. On PCP I would think they are all pretty similar other than the C350 slightly less as it is also a cheaper car on RRP. When looking for my S5 lease I worked out I didn't think I could own it for the lease cost and the Merc C43 was not in the same parish price wise on lease and the PCP deals were also far dearer. But I think you need to decide what you want.

[Markee68]

AstonZagato said:

Maybe. It is very energy dense but it also is very difficult to store/transport, requiring high pressures and extremely low temperatures.

No one is saying it's perfect yet, there are lots of issues to resolve, with one of the main ones being the huge investment in infrastructure required.

Anyway, back to leasing...