Diesel and 4x4s....
Discussion
Looking at the slightly uncertain future of diesel, where is this going to leave 4x4s and SUV vehicles.
There's another thread running for thoughts on how the future is going to look for the devils fuel. But I'm currently looking at buying a used 7 seat 4x4. At least 95% of that market is diesel.
I suspect this is partially due to the usual diesel reasons such as running costs and the like. But also arguable diesel driving characteristics suit heavy 4x4s.. lots of low down shove to shift the 2 ton+ machine.
If you consider how many 4x4 and SUV type vehicles you are... how many of those owners could afford to run them if they had a 4.0 V8 under the bonnet. I can't see these new small capacity petrol turbo units being much cop in a big Shogun type truck.
So how's this one going to pan out? And what would you do? I have the need and the lifestyle for an XC90/Pathfinder type vehicle, which would be a keeper for lots of years, but am slightly nervous about committing to diesel and getting bent over.
Thoughts?
There's another thread running for thoughts on how the future is going to look for the devils fuel. But I'm currently looking at buying a used 7 seat 4x4. At least 95% of that market is diesel.
I suspect this is partially due to the usual diesel reasons such as running costs and the like. But also arguable diesel driving characteristics suit heavy 4x4s.. lots of low down shove to shift the 2 ton+ machine.
If you consider how many 4x4 and SUV type vehicles you are... how many of those owners could afford to run them if they had a 4.0 V8 under the bonnet. I can't see these new small capacity petrol turbo units being much cop in a big Shogun type truck.
So how's this one going to pan out? And what would you do? I have the need and the lifestyle for an XC90/Pathfinder type vehicle, which would be a keeper for lots of years, but am slightly nervous about committing to diesel and getting bent over.
Thoughts?
JLR do not seem impressed at all with the way things are going
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/jaguar/99374/jaguar-l...
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/jaguar/99374/jaguar-l...
wiliferus said:
Looking at the slightly uncertain future of diesel, where is this going to leave 4x4s and SUV vehicles.
There's another thread running for thoughts on how the future is going to look for the devils fuel. But I'm currently looking at buying a used 7 seat 4x4. At least 95% of that market is diesel.
I suspect this is partially due to the usual diesel reasons such as running costs and the like. But also arguable diesel driving characteristics suit heavy 4x4s.. lots of low down shove to shift the 2 ton+ machine.
If you consider how many 4x4 and SUV type vehicles you are... how many of those owners could afford to run them if they had a 4.0 V8 under the bonnet. I can't see these new small capacity petrol turbo units being much cop in a big Shogun type truck.
So how's this one going to pan out? And what would you do? I have the need and the lifestyle for an XC90/Pathfinder type vehicle, which would be a keeper for lots of years, but am slightly nervous about committing to diesel and getting bent over.
Thoughts?
Surely VAG are doing petrol seven seater 4x4s with the likes of the Kodiaq?There's another thread running for thoughts on how the future is going to look for the devils fuel. But I'm currently looking at buying a used 7 seat 4x4. At least 95% of that market is diesel.
I suspect this is partially due to the usual diesel reasons such as running costs and the like. But also arguable diesel driving characteristics suit heavy 4x4s.. lots of low down shove to shift the 2 ton+ machine.
If you consider how many 4x4 and SUV type vehicles you are... how many of those owners could afford to run them if they had a 4.0 V8 under the bonnet. I can't see these new small capacity petrol turbo units being much cop in a big Shogun type truck.
So how's this one going to pan out? And what would you do? I have the need and the lifestyle for an XC90/Pathfinder type vehicle, which would be a keeper for lots of years, but am slightly nervous about committing to diesel and getting bent over.
Thoughts?
Also, arent there some hybrid 4x4s about. Cant be a difficult next step if there arent.
I do think diesels will be with us in relative abundance for the next decade or so anyway.
And boat engines. Been offshore today.
Two V12 MTU I think about 1500hp each and we have probably burnt about 1500l of diesel.
I'm not part of the boat crew, but often sit in the bridge. At about 90% load at around 25kts, the engine gauges say they are burning 220L/hr each.
No way would a move to petrol ever be made, as a petrol version would be comical consumption, and it just wouldn't be allowed on projects, due to the bang risk.
I imagine it would be the same with agriculture etc.
Two V12 MTU I think about 1500hp each and we have probably burnt about 1500l of diesel.
I'm not part of the boat crew, but often sit in the bridge. At about 90% load at around 25kts, the engine gauges say they are burning 220L/hr each.
No way would a move to petrol ever be made, as a petrol version would be comical consumption, and it just wouldn't be allowed on projects, due to the bang risk.
I imagine it would be the same with agriculture etc.
Diesels are here to stay for some time yet. Tax burden will be placed on NEW ones and slowly increased to make them unviable for private consumers. By this time, hybrid technology will be prevelent and you'll get a nice big fat torquey electric motor to power your Chelsea tractor.
Eventually diesel will be a thing of lorries and agriculture, and of course marine as pointed out in another post.
Buy your big diesel SUV today with impunity. You can keep it until it's worthless without much penalty and then make the switch to whatever is best at the time.
Eventually diesel will be a thing of lorries and agriculture, and of course marine as pointed out in another post.
Buy your big diesel SUV today with impunity. You can keep it until it's worthless without much penalty and then make the switch to whatever is best at the time.
And boat engines. Been offshore today.
Two V12 MTU I think about 1500hp each and we have probably burnt about 1500l of diesel.
I'm not part of the boat crew, but often sit in the bridge. At about 90% load at around 25kts, the engine gauges say they are burning 220L/hr each.
No way would a move to petrol ever be made, as a petrol version would be comical consumption, and it just wouldn't be allowed on projects, due to the bang risk.
I imagine it would be the same with agriculture etc.
Two V12 MTU I think about 1500hp each and we have probably burnt about 1500l of diesel.
I'm not part of the boat crew, but often sit in the bridge. At about 90% load at around 25kts, the engine gauges say they are burning 220L/hr each.
No way would a move to petrol ever be made, as a petrol version would be comical consumption, and it just wouldn't be allowed on projects, due to the bang risk.
I imagine it would be the same with agriculture etc.
morfmedia said:
In a similar situation myself,math inking Q7 /X5 at the moment, think the older xC90 look pretty dated against the newer models?
To a degree. I'm looking at a £15k budget, which lets me near some quite ropey Q7s which I think now look very dated and a tad chavy in the Mk1 generation.X5s seem achievable, they're aren't that many 7 sweaters around which means finding on in my preferred spec is a bit of a challenge.
The XC90 does seem dated but to that end you do get a lot for your money. I'm currently in a V70 D5 and I can't fault it, so the XC90 does have an appeal.
The Pathfinder is my preferred option as I love the looks but the mpg is poor in comparison to the others and unless careful you can find yourself in the £505 tax band.
I won't be buying till the summer so the diesel picture may be clearer by then.
CornishRob said:
And boat engines. Been offshore today.
Two V12 MTU I think about 1500hp each and we have probably burnt about 1500l of diesel.
I'm not part of the boat crew, but often sit in the bridge. At about 90% load at around 25kts, the engine gauges say they are burning 220L/hr each.
No way would a move to petrol ever be made, as a petrol version would be comical consumption, and it just wouldn't be allowed on projects, due to the bang risk.
There's a nice solution, sails. Two V12 MTU I think about 1500hp each and we have probably burnt about 1500l of diesel.
I'm not part of the boat crew, but often sit in the bridge. At about 90% load at around 25kts, the engine gauges say they are burning 220L/hr each.
No way would a move to petrol ever be made, as a petrol version would be comical consumption, and it just wouldn't be allowed on projects, due to the bang risk.
We're in a similar position to the OP. We have an older XC90 and it's a brilliant piece of kit for our family needs. It's getting a bit leggy now and we're looking to replace it. The other half wants a new shape one but it's out of budget so we'd be looking at something similar but cheaper. Not sure whether to stick with Diesel the way things are but finding an alternative that won't break the bank is hard. We're fortunate that we don't actually need the 7 seats but we have used them on occasion and it's really useful to have.
A friend of mine went down the Outlander EV route but Mrs Toon didn't like it and prefers to be higher up. I drove it and thought it was OK to drive but it didn't make me want to buy one and it's not much of a looker. As much as I hate Diesel, it really does make sense in a big heavy 4x4. Interesting times...
A friend of mine went down the Outlander EV route but Mrs Toon didn't like it and prefers to be higher up. I drove it and thought it was OK to drive but it didn't make me want to buy one and it's not much of a looker. As much as I hate Diesel, it really does make sense in a big heavy 4x4. Interesting times...
wiliferus said:
To a degree. I'm looking at a £15k budget, which lets me near some quite ropey Q7s which I think now look very dated and a tad chavy in the Mk1 generation.
X5s seem achievable, they're aren't that many 7 sweaters around which means finding on in my preferred spec is a bit of a challenge.
The XC90 does seem dated but to that end you do get a lot for your money. I'm currently in a V70 D5 and I can't fault it, so the XC90 does have an appeal.
The Pathfinder is my preferred option as I love the looks but the mpg is poor in comparison to the others and unless careful you can find yourself in the £505 tax band.
I won't be buying till the summer so the diesel picture may be clearer by then.
Personally I'd not worry at all.X5s seem achievable, they're aren't that many 7 sweaters around which means finding on in my preferred spec is a bit of a challenge.
The XC90 does seem dated but to that end you do get a lot for your money. I'm currently in a V70 D5 and I can't fault it, so the XC90 does have an appeal.
The Pathfinder is my preferred option as I love the looks but the mpg is poor in comparison to the others and unless careful you can find yourself in the £505 tax band.
I won't be buying till the summer so the diesel picture may be clearer by then.
Not being nasty or anything, but if you'd bought a £15k Pathfinder or similar a year or two ago, it was always going to massively depreciate over the next 5 years or so.
This hasn't really changed.
And the most likely outcome is going to be gradual change, rather than anything revolutionary. Do you really think the Government would overnight banned all diesel cars, or makes those that own them bankrupt?
That, and there really is no alternative to diesel for some vehicle types.
And it's also worth looking at the wider world. Smaller diesel engines are really kicking off in the USA right now, with a number of new lines of diesel powered vehicles, with brand new diesel engines being launched over the past 18 months or so. South America is taking a completely different option to hybrids and electric power too.
Now don't get me wrong, electric vehicles appeal in many ways. But the reality is, I highly doubt the infrastructure can be provided in the UK for a mass scale move to electric power. Not too mentioned the lost revenue from lack of tax on petrol & diesel engines.
The reality is, the diesel engine is unlikely to be going anywhere anytime soon.
sheepman said:
JLR do not seem impressed at all with the way things are going
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/jaguar/99374/jaguar-l...
Not surprising, they've just spent millions (make that over a billion) putting an engine factory in Wolverhampton to produce the 2.0 Diesel Ingenium engines they spent millions developing, they recently spent lots more to double it in size to build the petrol equivalent on site...they might think their ROI model could take a bit of a hit if diesels are being phased out...http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/jaguar/99374/jaguar-l...
Edited by born2bslow on Monday 8th May 12:13
Foliage said:
Electric drone lighter than air ships.
To replace a 40 tonne lorry? It would have to be a lot lighter than air...by about 40 tonnes or so.I know little about logistics, but image drones would only replace the final step from regional distribution centre to door, leaving a load of other movement still needed.
Ian
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff