Should I buy a Metro to teach my kids spannering?
Discussion
I learnt spannering in the late 90s/early 2000s on a 1940s Ferguson tractor, a 1960s Morris Minor and a 1970s Land Rover. Having also owned a 1987 Metro I'd say that they're perfectly good for teaching the basics of car maintenance and work, even if some of the specific bits (carburettors, Hydragas) isn't directly applicable. It's all about learning the functions and principles in the first place. The Metro is just about climbing out of the bottom of its depreciation curve now, too, so if you bought a tidy example and kept it around for a while and did a little bit of tidying up and maintenance you could probably sell it for more than you would buy it for.
The only thing is that, as 'characterful' as Metros are they aren't everyone's cup of tea to drive, and you could find slightly more modern and more conventional superminis for less money. And if you bought an Austin Metro rather than a Rover Metro you'd probably end up teaching more welding and rust-removal than spannering.
Not quite. The reason they need pumping up occasionally is that the nitrogen in the gas part gradually diffuses through the internal diaphragm, so you need to bring the 'hydra' part up to the correct pressure to rebalance the system. Except that every time you do that you stiffen the springing/damping rates slightly because the gas/fluid ratio in the displacers has changed. After five or six pump-ups the car will start driving like a shopping trolley on cobblestones, then eventually there will be so little gas that the diaphragm contacts the rivet in the centre of the gas dome and gets a puncture.
Metros (and other Hydragas cars) can handle and ride very nicely when all the displacers are in good condition but they have a service life like any other suspension component, and they are much simpler to change than a steel spring/damper setup. The problem is that Dunlop stopped making new displacers in 2002 so the stock is essentially expired, and even the brand new units have a shelf life so you can buy new-old stock, in-box displacers and they'll still make your car handle badly. There are homespun ways of regassing the displacers which will probably become more widely available as tbe surviving Metros/MGFs start appreciating in value.
The only thing is that, as 'characterful' as Metros are they aren't everyone's cup of tea to drive, and you could find slightly more modern and more conventional superminis for less money. And if you bought an Austin Metro rather than a Rover Metro you'd probably end up teaching more welding and rust-removal than spannering.
hornmeister said:
LuS1fer said:
The Metro has complicated and expensive hydragas suspension so I would by something more traditional.
Pretty good system though. You just needed to get it pumped up at a service every couple of years. Cost a tenner each time. Got to be better than replacing parts.Metros (and other Hydragas cars) can handle and ride very nicely when all the displacers are in good condition but they have a service life like any other suspension component, and they are much simpler to change than a steel spring/damper setup. The problem is that Dunlop stopped making new displacers in 2002 so the stock is essentially expired, and even the brand new units have a shelf life so you can buy new-old stock, in-box displacers and they'll still make your car handle badly. There are homespun ways of regassing the displacers which will probably become more widely available as tbe surviving Metros/MGFs start appreciating in value.
austinsmirk said:
my memory does tell me they were chuffing awful back in the day, brand new.
It was OK to begin with but soon started to fall apart when it was raced round the North Circular with the engine blowing up after a year and a bit.
But it was the body rust that shocked me the most, went to try and flog it to the secondhand car dealers down Romford Road and one bloke just pointed at the sills, laughed and asked if I lived at the seaside.
Oddly, despite what I said earlier, I actually had an old Metro MG when I was 15 that I acquired with the dreams of fixing it up in readiness for my 17th... no idea why as I didn't particularly like them but I guess I was young and foolish. What I did teach me was that they're pretty horrible cars, badly made, complex in the wrong places and prehistoric in others.
It got scrapped and it wasn't until I was 18, driving and bought a Cavalier GSi that I really took a vested interest in the oil bits and learning how it all worked and that was a fantastic car to work on... very simple, logical engine layout and design, well made, cheap and more importantly once I'd finished tinkering, it was a pretty superb piece of kit to drive around in plus four mates fitted and my Mum was happy that I had a decent amount of metal around me just in case the worst happened.
So whilst I'm not saying buy a Cavalier, I am saying that unless your kids REALLY want a Metro then don't force that on them... there's countless other cheap, simple and more modern cars that are better to work on and much better to drive around in from both child and parent perspective.
It got scrapped and it wasn't until I was 18, driving and bought a Cavalier GSi that I really took a vested interest in the oil bits and learning how it all worked and that was a fantastic car to work on... very simple, logical engine layout and design, well made, cheap and more importantly once I'd finished tinkering, it was a pretty superb piece of kit to drive around in plus four mates fitted and my Mum was happy that I had a decent amount of metal around me just in case the worst happened.
So whilst I'm not saying buy a Cavalier, I am saying that unless your kids REALLY want a Metro then don't force that on them... there's countless other cheap, simple and more modern cars that are better to work on and much better to drive around in from both child and parent perspective.
captain_cynic said:
PixelpeepS3 said:
ahhh is there any thread on pistonheads that can't be simply answered with 'MX-5' ?! 
MX-5 may actually be the answer here.They're mechanically simple. Also reliable so it might be hard to find one that needs work.
And it's a lot more exciting for the boys than a small hatchback.
captain_cynic said:
PixelpeepS3 said:
ahhh is there any thread on pistonheads that can't be simply answered with 'MX-5' ?!
MX-5 may actually be the answer here.They're mechanically simple. Also reliable so it might be hard to find one that needs work.
Rubbish car to start out with. In most cases something cheap will either be really rusty or reliable enough not to need much, e.g. K11 Micra.
Metro is a rubbish start if it still has hydragas suspension.
SpeckledJim said:
captain_cynic said:
PixelpeepS3 said:
ahhh is there any thread on pistonheads that can't be simply answered with 'MX-5' ?!
MX-5 may actually be the answer here.They're mechanically simple. Also reliable so it might be hard to find one that needs work.
SpeckledJim said:
And it's a lot more exciting for the boys than a small hatchback.
Exciting in the way insurers won't like.I'd go for a Mk1 fiesta 1.1 or similar and slowly modify it along the way, will be worth something when done & easy to work on, along this lines & maybe compete with them one day 
http://www.fiesta-mk1.co.uk/magazine_articles/maga...
http://www.fiesta-mk1.co.uk/magazine_articles/maga...
The first step is basic concepts and using tools correctly, so the tech in the vehicle is not that important.
I'd suggest that car 1 is the nearest eBay "spares or repairs" that may have some value if it was working/12 months MOT. So something like Micra/Ka/Fiesta/Corsa/Polo. Fix it, flog it and share any profit.
Then talk about a specific car for job 2.
My son and I ended up with a Vauxhall Agila; no class, no cred but cheap bits and insurance. A basic code reader is under £50 and there is enough tech to be relevant.
I'd suggest that car 1 is the nearest eBay "spares or repairs" that may have some value if it was working/12 months MOT. So something like Micra/Ka/Fiesta/Corsa/Polo. Fix it, flog it and share any profit.
Then talk about a specific car for job 2.
My son and I ended up with a Vauxhall Agila; no class, no cred but cheap bits and insurance. A basic code reader is under £50 and there is enough tech to be relevant.
No too old , too rotten and not great when new!
Great idea but choose something more modern
Plus I wouldn't want my kids in a metro to have a crash ....Ouch
Even if you spent every hour working on a metro and replaced every part it would still break down !
Panda/micra/civic would be my choice
Great idea but choose something more modern
Plus I wouldn't want my kids in a metro to have a crash ....Ouch
Even if you spent every hour working on a metro and replaced every part it would still break down !
Panda/micra/civic would be my choice
strain said:
plenty of cars that are a bit better which you could actually enjoy?
Puma, MX5, 172/182, could probably get a cheap fiesta ST focus St170 in there?
Could have a look at a cheap off roader Jimny?
I grew up with my dad owning a string of rover 114's and although they done nothing for me and I have often thought about buying one to restore, I just couldn't imagine owning one
1.6 Grand Vitara SWB of the same era. Similar basic mechanicals but there's a bit of a scene tax on the Jimny from offroader types. (this is why I have a GV, a Jimny of the same age and mileage was near on twice the price for basically the same car.)Puma, MX5, 172/182, could probably get a cheap fiesta ST focus St170 in there?
Could have a look at a cheap off roader Jimny?
I grew up with my dad owning a string of rover 114's and although they done nothing for me and I have often thought about buying one to restore, I just couldn't imagine owning one
Mk 4/5 Ford Fiesta Vauxhall Corsa mk 2 Fiat Punto
Any of these are good to learn spannering / cheap parts and not too heavy to jack up onto axel stands.
Go to a scrapyard / breakers and ask about recent MOT failures they've had in
You'll get a car for a few hundred and pay to have it transported to your driveway.
Spend the rest on 2nd hand parts and have fun re-commissioning the car.
You can learn chassis repairs / rust proofing / body repairs / paint repairs and correction, plus all the mechanical stuff.
I grew up without a dad, and I would have loved having someone teach me about cars and spannering.
(everything I've learn't is self taught / trial and error).
nb: if you don't like the idea of a scrapyard, there are plenty of accident repair / insurance write off yards.
Insurance companies write off older cars even for the slightest of bumps/scrapes these days.
Any of these are good to learn spannering / cheap parts and not too heavy to jack up onto axel stands.
Go to a scrapyard / breakers and ask about recent MOT failures they've had in
You'll get a car for a few hundred and pay to have it transported to your driveway.
Spend the rest on 2nd hand parts and have fun re-commissioning the car.
You can learn chassis repairs / rust proofing / body repairs / paint repairs and correction, plus all the mechanical stuff.
I grew up without a dad, and I would have loved having someone teach me about cars and spannering.
(everything I've learn't is self taught / trial and error).
nb: if you don't like the idea of a scrapyard, there are plenty of accident repair / insurance write off yards.
Insurance companies write off older cars even for the slightest of bumps/scrapes these days.
We had a Metro from new. My late MIL bought it & on her death it passed to my wife & then onto both sons as their first car.
The hydragas suspension is a PITA if you need to work on it & needs specialist kit to pump it back up.
It finally went to the great scrapyard in the sky when I decided it simply wasn't worth my time to do any more welding on it - corrosion is an issue.
We then had 3 Peugeot 205 1.4GRs & very good they were too. Easy to work on, tough as old boots, handled well & surprisingly quick.
The hydragas suspension is a PITA if you need to work on it & needs specialist kit to pump it back up.
It finally went to the great scrapyard in the sky when I decided it simply wasn't worth my time to do any more welding on it - corrosion is an issue.
We then had 3 Peugeot 205 1.4GRs & very good they were too. Easy to work on, tough as old boots, handled well & surprisingly quick.
Edited by paintman on Friday 23 March 18:23
Personally I'd recommend a cheaper mx5, or as an above poster pointed out, a Jimny. If you can weld yourself both of these cars can be picked up VERY cheap with a few holes in them (Mx5 more than the Jim). Not only are replacement parts cheap for both, but aftermarket parts are also buttons with great availability, personally for me nothing makes me love my cars more than applying my own tastes to them and seeing the results in how they drive.
MX5, or Jim, or the other cheap warm hatch options other posters recommended (bit heavier on insurance) also fill the enthusiast niche of being better for something other than just going to the shops.
Also make a great pair for a weekend cruiser and winter beater, if I don't say so myself.
MX5, or Jim, or the other cheap warm hatch options other posters recommended (bit heavier on insurance) also fill the enthusiast niche of being better for something other than just going to the shops.
Also make a great pair for a weekend cruiser and winter beater, if I don't say so myself.
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