Should I buy a Metro to teach my kids spannering?

[dave_s13]

I spent most of today doing the cam belt, water pump, ancillary belt, thermostat, coolant, oil, oils filter and air filter on a 53 plate Clio I bought a couple of weeks ago for £280.

Apart from cocking up the timing belt tension a bit (I'll be slackening that off tomorrow) it was pretty simple. I have VTd my salary Sacrifice lease car to save a few quid so this will be my daily commuter. If it doesn't blow up now I've fked about with it 😀

My kids are a bit young but what I did on this today would've been a great project for me to do with my dad age 17. Sadly never had that kind of dad so had to figure it out myself.

[lord trumpton]

LuS1fer said:

The Metro has complicated and expensive hydragas suspension so I would by something more traditional.

Also A-series is ancient but great and the K-series has head gasket issues.

Personally, I would have no hesitation in buying the last model Fiat Panda - cheap parts on ebay, simple to fix and it will be (relatively) cheap to insure.
They seem to be able to rack up the miles.

I bought my daughter one as her first car after having several as hire cars in foreign climes.

Edited by LuS1fer on Friday 23 March 15:52

I love the Panda - that looks really cool in the blue!

We've had a 100hp in the family since new and just can't part with it

[colin_p]

bitwrx said:

Peugeot 106, Citroen AX, Saxo may be good. Dead easy to work on, don't rust badly (although most cars that age will have a bit), and great fun to drive, even the slow ones. If you get an old one you'll even have things like carbs and distributors and ht leads that throw up the odd fault diagnosis challenge, while still being very reliable.
(Experience based on running a 954cc 4 speed base spec S1 106 for 4 years while at uni.)

They'd also be good for long distance trials and nav rallies that youngsters can join in on as navigators.

ETA not quite a classic, but then neither is a metro.

Agreed.

I've recently bought my son a Pug 206 as his first car. About as basic as it gets mechanically.

Despite all the media hate about Pugs and French cars generally, I absolutely love it, a genuinely great little car that harks back to the good 'ole days when cars gave a sensation of speed, feedback and were easy to work on.

Long may the hate continue as small French hatches are a best kept secret.

[manmaths]

wow, lots of helpful replies here!

I should have mentioned that the boys are currently 6, 5 and 0 years old respectively and that the two of them that can talk have never knowingly expressed an interest in owning, working on, being a passenger in, or one day driving a Metro...thankfully. But they do like cars which is great and I'd like to nurture that.

My interest in the Metro is based on a sort of anti-cool vibe that I like, and the fact that I've owned an Austin Mini in the past, as well as an MG (ZS180). But I've never driven one / worked on one - so no emotional attachment - just saw they were cheap - as someone mentioned at the bottom of the value curve.

But your tales of woe are putting me off. I do remember reading about difficulties sorting nackered hydragas systems (think it was an article in CCW). I had forgotten about that. Can you convert to a conventional spring and shock set up? Ok, ok - I'll forget about the Metro.

The idea would be to spend time working on it together, not really with the intention of them driving it - in fact probably definitely never driving it as I'd like them to be remain alive for an extended period of time. Why my parents bought a 1896 mini city for my brother and I to share in the early 2000's is beyond me (from a general safety point of view especially now that I have kids). Jeekers by the time the boys pass their test cars will probably all be fully electric and might not need steering wheels!

On the spannering or welding comment - spannering, definitely spannering. I don't have a welder and can't weld - though would like to learn.

Anyhow all very good suggestions chaps and many other good ideas out there most of which I have not considered. Ideally smaller would be better practically, with the garage / driveway etc.

Puma - yes quite like these
MX5 - yes would consider - esp the eunos
172 - don't like clios but would for a 172/182
Fiesta - mmm not sure
Spitfire - NSIS? Maybe biting off more than I could chew. But yes.
Micra - One of my least favourite cars of all time. A bit of sick came up when I looked at the K11 someone linked. But 1998 with 55k miles for £995 aint bad!
V70/850 - theres a nice V70 a few miles for me for £1k. Tempting. Although its so nice I would want to daily it immediately.
Panda - never would have considered this. interesting.
Saxo - always wanted a VTS when I was 17 and cruising was still a thing. While listening to DJ Jean The Launch
106 - Same as above but with GTI
AX - had an epic drive in one of these in Scotland in a heavy snow storm. Nearly killed me and my brother. Like them.
Demio - had to google this. It looks like something you would be buried in.
Cavalier - old man had one. yes 100%. I used to have a Sierra when I was at Uni. Really should have just kept that.
C1 / Aygo / Jazz / Yaris - no, no, no and no
Corsa - just never liked them. with a calibra red top would be cool though
Jimny / GV- left field curve ball. need to look into that - they are strangely cool
Polo - no, unless Polo C (the boxy one). One for sale close to me for £1500 looks mint. Mother used to have one


Food for thought!

Edited by manmaths on Friday 23 March 19:58

[TooMany2cvs]

manmaths said:

I should have mentioned that the boys are currently 6, 5 and 0 years old respectively

So the very first driving lesson is 11yrs away...?!?

I bought my own first car at 15, took it apart, spread it all over my parents' garden for a few years, and generally fked it right up. My 18th present was getting the local garage to sort my cockups out sufficiently to get it an MOT. I've since learnt how to tighten bolts up.

[LuS1fer]

Sadly, kids today are really not into spannering.
My boys are 12 and 8. the older one loves cars or the idea of cars but although I do all my own work, he's simply not interested in anything other than his X-Box.
I mentioned to him about inheriting his sister's Panda at 17 and he scorned the very idea, it isn't cool, Daddio...
My mate's son similarly "had to have" a tarted up Corsa - VXR looks, tiny engine... it's all about how it looks, we are spawning a shallow generation of coiffeured eyebrow shapers..

But even though my son is only 5 years away, we are already looking at "dying technology" and the whole concept of "car ownership".
My sister's kids both started with lease cars - a BMW 1 series and a Merc A-Class but a few months into the Merc lease, he decided he wanted to go to Australia instead.

You might be better off teaching him how to repair vacuum cleaners, he may need that sort of knowledge.

[MorganP104]

PixelpeepS3 said:

ahhh is there any thread on pistonheads that can't be simply answered with 'MX-5' ?!

Funny you should say that...

My brother had the pretty much the same thought as the OP - get a project car, to work on with his eldest son (his youngest boy is still a toddler. )

He went out and bought an old MX-5, which he's looking to build into an MEV Exocet, which is one of these:



In a genius move, all the parts removed from the MX-5 that aren't required for the Exocet build have been flogged on eBay, netting my brother a modest profit.

A profit that will be wiped out once he buys the Exocet bits, but every little helps!

[caelite]

manmaths said:

wow, lots of helpful replies here!

I should have mentioned that the boys are currently 6, 5 and 0 years old respectively and that the two of them that can talk have never knowingly expressed an interest in owning, working on, being a passenger in, or one day driving a Metro...thankfully.

That is... most likely for the better. . That being said I was about to come back and recommend maybe an old Metro GTi/GTa as a little, 90hp, potentially apprieciating classic. Nearly fell off my chair when I saw what they are selling for now. (>£8k)

manmaths said:

Jimny / GV- left field curve ball. need to look into that - they are strangely cool

Indeed. Lots you can do on them fairly easily too. Just starting mine, so fair I've:
-Added rear privacy glass
-Fitted a set of Recaros from an Ignis sport
-Full engine service (Filters, coolant, oil)

Planned on the immediate future I will be
-Replacing the alloys with 'lower spec' steels, refurbed in black
-Replacing shocks and springs with a 50mm lift kit
-Larger set of AT tyres (26" to 28")
-Service the diff & gearbox oils
-Scrub down and understeal some little crusty bits on the underside
-Finally finish the little odds and ends I intended (fix aerial and some trim pieces)

They build them like old Jeeps, everything comes a part simply and easily, they are most certainly not 'sporty' so cheap to insure, even when modified. Find a local pay and play and you could most likely give your sons some lessons offroad in it too, far more options available in a 4x4 than a small hatch.

[manmaths]

Chainsaw Rebuild said:

As someone mentioned above - what about a classic tractor? No complex electronics, they are cool, if your garden is big enough you could use it for something useful.

Or what about MX bikes - simpleish and you can ride them from a young age.

Funny you should mention but they are also tractor mad. My wifes family are into restoring and showing vintage tractors - DBs, Fordson Dexta etc
Just dont have the land or appropriate road network to make use of one. But they are great fun and still very cheap to pick up.

[manmaths]

caelite said:

Indeed. Lots you can do on them fairly easily too. Just starting mine, so fair I've:
-Added rear privacy glass
-Fitted a set of Recaros from an Ignis sport
-Full engine service (Filters, coolant, oil)

Planned on the immediate future I will be
-Replacing the alloys with 'lower spec' steels, refurbed in black
-Replacing shocks and springs with a 50mm lift kit
-Larger set of AT tyres (26" to 28")
-Service the diff & gearbox oils
-Scrub down and understeal some little crusty bits on the underside
-Finally finish the little odds and ends I intended (fix aerial and some trim pieces)

They build them like old Jeeps, everything comes a part simply and easily, they are most certainly not 'sporty' so cheap to insure, even when modified. Find a local pay and play and you could most likely give your sons some lessons offroad in it too, far more options available in a 4x4 than a small hatch.

Looks like there are lots for sale near me (NI).

What year is yours? The more I think about it the more it makes sense.

Yes Metro GTIs are on the up and up!

[manmaths]

LuS1fer said:

You might be better off teaching him how to repair vacuum cleaners, he may need that sort of knowledge.

I'm getting them interested in programming which will be a good knowledge base to have.

Trying to resist the game console for as long as possible! So far they are both kids who would rather be outside helping me do the weeding.

This spannering idea is really just another thing to be doing outside together.

[caelite]

manmaths said:

Looks like there are lots for sale near me (NI).

What year is yours? The more I think about it the more it makes sense.

Yes Metro GTIs are on the up and up!

Mines is a 2007, One of the first years of the first facelift. The original is '98-'05, 1st Facelift with VVT motor is '06-'12 with the final version being '12 onwards. I picked up my 1st facelift for £2.2k as I wanted the euro 4 motor, originals can be picked up for £600-1000 for OK examples. They do rust a wee bit, but no worse than anything else small and Japanese, check the boot floor where the jack sits for holes, and underneath the headlights both are common rusty points and if left unchecked result in an eventual MOT fail as rust nears the seatbelt mounts and chassis mounts. However if caught early they are supposedly an easy fix as the rust tends to start in an area which is non-structural and generally hidden.

There is a good active owners forum too, bigjimny.com great place to get some advice, also a lot of clean examples get sold on there.

[InitialDave]

What about an old Land Rover? Already classics, and in terms of learning about working on cars with something that's chunky and simple, there's not much better. Practically every part is available, and not that expensive for the series 3 I assume you'd probably be able to find in "project" condition for a grand.

Or A Morris Minor? Again, very well supported traditional "starter" classic.

I'd say buy what you like and will enjoy working on, and hopefully your kids will enjoy helping Dad with it regardless of what it is, then as they get older (if they show continued interest), I'm sure their own preferences will develop.

[manmaths]

caelite said:

Mines is a 2007, One of the first years of the first facelift. The original is '98-'05, 1st Facelift with VVT motor is '06-'12 with the final version being '12 onwards. I picked up my 1st facelift for £2.2k as I wanted the euro 4 motor, originals can be picked up for £600-1000 for OK examples. They do rust a wee bit, but no worse than anything else small and Japanese, check the boot floor where the jack sits for holes, and underneath the headlights both are common rusty points and if left unchecked result in an eventual MOT fail as rust nears the seatbelt mounts and chassis mounts. However if caught early they are supposedly an easy fix as the rust tends to start in an area which is non-structural and generally hidden.

There is a good active owners forum too, bigjimny.com great place to get some advice, also a lot of clean examples get sold on there.

Will check it out!

Quite like the original - there is one close by for £900 but with no MOT. Will remember to keep an eye our for rust in those areas if I decide to take a look.

[manmaths]

InitialDave said:

What about an old Land Rover? Already classics, and in terms of learning about working on cars with something that's chunky and simple, there's not much better. Practically every part is available, and not that expensive for the series 3 I assume you'd probably be able to find in "project" condition for a grand.

Or A Morris Minor? Again, very well supported traditional "starter" classic.

I'd say buy what you like and will enjoy working on, and hopefully your kids will enjoy helping Dad with it regardless of what it is, then as they get older (if they show continued interest), I'm sure their own preferences will develop.

Yes the old man always mentions getting one! I just assumed they were more on the expensive side but worth keeping an eye on

[Spitfire2]

996TT02 said:

I would not, a bit cramped in there. Then again what isn't except something like a Triumph Spitfire where you can sit on the front wheel and admire at least one side of the engine top to bottom and spanner away while having breakfast.

Which quite conveniently brings me to - why not do something at least worth doing, like such a Spitfire?

I'll second that nomination. But I am slightly biased. And the price for reasonable ones is on the up.