Returning used car within 30-days
Discussion
Good to know I'm not alone in thinking all of this. As mentioned, I was happy to give the dealership the benefit of the doubt but unfortunately they don't appear to appreciate those efforts and aren't being very helpful in response.
I've responded to the dealer stating I still want a full refund within 5-days. If they want to add hassle to the whole situation by going to ADR/small claims court, so be it as I'm protected fully by CRA.
It seems they may go with that, so I'm reading up and getting further advice for small claims procedures.
Thanks again all, will keep you updated.
I've responded to the dealer stating I still want a full refund within 5-days. If they want to add hassle to the whole situation by going to ADR/small claims court, so be it as I'm protected fully by CRA.
It seems they may go with that, so I'm reading up and getting further advice for small claims procedures.
Thanks again all, will keep you updated.
Apologies for the delayed update for those interested, it's been a busy few weeks..!
Last week it reached the 14-days and the dealership were still insistent on rejecting my claims and saying they will take it further with ADR. We had a discussion and I gave them 2 options which I would only be happy with, either:
- Full refund
- A full inspection with a genuine VW garage, airbags checked and replaced fully with a complete safety report made for my peace of mind - All paid for.
They've gone with the second option which I imagined they would and one I'm genuinely happy with. It came out of the VW garage today and has cost them just shy of £800.
Remove and reinstall roof lining - 3 hours at £100.00 per hour = £300.00 +vat
Wiring repair to both front curtain airbags due to being cut and tapped together - 1.2 hours at £100 per hour + 4 heat shrinks @ £4.00 each = £136.00 + vat
Repair wiring to n/s sunvisor as has been cut – 0.40 hours at £100.00 per hour +£40.00 plus vat
Remove and refit n/s curtain airbag – 1.2 hours at £100.00 per hour = £120.00 + vat
This is all going to be put in writing from the dealership and on top of that, I can now purchase VW extended warranty which I'm pleased about - especially having not had the tensioner replaced. I realise not everyone will have the same faith in main dealerships as I do, but in my opinion, if they've given it a good inspection I'm happy to trust it's safe to drive.
I'm picking the car up tomorrow so hope all of this is coming to a close, but will be reminding them about the 6-month right to return should I find anything else iffy..
Thanks again for all advice folks, really appreciate it!
Last week it reached the 14-days and the dealership were still insistent on rejecting my claims and saying they will take it further with ADR. We had a discussion and I gave them 2 options which I would only be happy with, either:
- Full refund
- A full inspection with a genuine VW garage, airbags checked and replaced fully with a complete safety report made for my peace of mind - All paid for.
They've gone with the second option which I imagined they would and one I'm genuinely happy with. It came out of the VW garage today and has cost them just shy of £800.
Remove and reinstall roof lining - 3 hours at £100.00 per hour = £300.00 +vat
Wiring repair to both front curtain airbags due to being cut and tapped together - 1.2 hours at £100 per hour + 4 heat shrinks @ £4.00 each = £136.00 + vat
Repair wiring to n/s sunvisor as has been cut – 0.40 hours at £100.00 per hour +£40.00 plus vat
Remove and refit n/s curtain airbag – 1.2 hours at £100.00 per hour = £120.00 + vat
This is all going to be put in writing from the dealership and on top of that, I can now purchase VW extended warranty which I'm pleased about - especially having not had the tensioner replaced. I realise not everyone will have the same faith in main dealerships as I do, but in my opinion, if they've given it a good inspection I'm happy to trust it's safe to drive.
I'm picking the car up tomorrow so hope all of this is coming to a close, but will be reminding them about the 6-month right to return should I find anything else iffy..
Thanks again for all advice folks, really appreciate it!
Good work I think that’s a reasonable outcome with out a lot of hassle. I’m shocked they took the gamble to let the main dealer do it - who knows what could have been found! Do you know if the front main airbags were triggered and if so are they genuine replacements? I assume the dealer checked this.
It looks a nice car
It looks a nice car
OP - did the VW garage have the scope to do a full inspection, including jig alignment? did they even have the tools required?
It sounds like they just fixed what you found.... which doesn't give you any information about the remainder of the repair and how well (or otherwise) that was performed.
It sounds like they just fixed what you found.... which doesn't give you any information about the remainder of the repair and how well (or otherwise) that was performed.
I think the OP did very well here.
Playing devils advocate I'm not as convinced as some this would have been a clear cut win on a return had the dealer refused.
A product only has to be "of a standard a reasonable person would expect" and, assuming this car was sold well below the price of a non-Cat D equivalent the seller could argue the buyer has absolutely no right to expect anything even close to the standard of a regular equivalent, i.e. it is cheap, it is Cat D, any buyer should expect there to be a catch somewhere and it be, hmmmm, a bit s
t.
Most Cat D cars unless the car is old and worth £1500 and gets written off for a scratched bumper (happens a lot and can be good buys) are botched together on the cheap. They have to be, otherwise the figures do not add up. The car can't be sold for the full price so there isn't the margin to do a proper repair. If the repair could be done properly to make the figures add up.......the insurance company wouldn't have written it off.
A good, specialist lawyer, working for the dealer could probably have had this won for them or at the very least some sort of compromise which would have been a lot less than £800 at a main dealer.
Playing devils advocate I'm not as convinced as some this would have been a clear cut win on a return had the dealer refused.
A product only has to be "of a standard a reasonable person would expect" and, assuming this car was sold well below the price of a non-Cat D equivalent the seller could argue the buyer has absolutely no right to expect anything even close to the standard of a regular equivalent, i.e. it is cheap, it is Cat D, any buyer should expect there to be a catch somewhere and it be, hmmmm, a bit s
t.Most Cat D cars unless the car is old and worth £1500 and gets written off for a scratched bumper (happens a lot and can be good buys) are botched together on the cheap. They have to be, otherwise the figures do not add up. The car can't be sold for the full price so there isn't the margin to do a proper repair. If the repair could be done properly to make the figures add up.......the insurance company wouldn't have written it off.
A good, specialist lawyer, working for the dealer could probably have had this won for them or at the very least some sort of compromise which would have been a lot less than £800 at a main dealer.
MrJingles705 said:
OP - did the VW garage have the scope to do a full inspection, including jig alignment? did they even have the tools required?
It sounds like they just fixed what you found.... which doesn't give you any information about the remainder of the repair and how well (or otherwise) that was performed.
Being harsh if you can't live with the possibility that deep down your car might be a bit banana shaped you shouldn't be buying written off cars the insurance company decided were not worth repairing. It sounds like they just fixed what you found.... which doesn't give you any information about the remainder of the repair and how well (or otherwise) that was performed.
A couple of points:
1) Cat D or not, price well below market or not, the car has to be road-legal to be sold - The MOT rules state that any airbag fitted as original equipment must be present and not defective; the car wouldn't have been able to pass an MOT test unless the warning light or loom was modified (or it was coded out of the ECU). The dealer may not have been aware of course, but that doesn't change the fact that once they became aware they had to rectify.
2) Just because it was Cat C/D doesn't mean it can't be put right.... this isn't some minor issue with door alignment or trim squeak and there is no reason for a car to come out of repair with a misaligned chassis.
For what it's worth though I agree that if you don't know what you are looking at you shouldn't be buying crash repaired cars.... too easy to get ripped off (as the OP did, bargain price or not).
1) Cat D or not, price well below market or not, the car has to be road-legal to be sold - The MOT rules state that any airbag fitted as original equipment must be present and not defective; the car wouldn't have been able to pass an MOT test unless the warning light or loom was modified (or it was coded out of the ECU). The dealer may not have been aware of course, but that doesn't change the fact that once they became aware they had to rectify.
2) Just because it was Cat C/D doesn't mean it can't be put right.... this isn't some minor issue with door alignment or trim squeak and there is no reason for a car to come out of repair with a misaligned chassis.
For what it's worth though I agree that if you don't know what you are looking at you shouldn't be buying crash repaired cars.... too easy to get ripped off (as the OP did, bargain price or not).
Well, it's been a short while but thought I'd update those who are interested in this increasingly frustrating situation.
4-days after VW had repaired the airbags (courtesy of the dealership), the airbag light came on the dash. I called the dealership and told them I would take it to VW personally, but should there be any extra costs - they would be getting billed.
The car went in this morning to VW (earliest possibility). After 5hrs I get a call off their master tech telling me he has bad news..
Long story short, the repair is as most of you likely expected, a complete bodge job.
Some of the wiring has been repaired with small transistors; one being the passenger seatbelt which was connected to the curtain airbag. He tells me he's never seen anything so bad and advised against driving it. He said if I'd have been in an accident in the last few months, none would have deployed.
To fix this, it would cost £831 but he tells me there'll likely be other areas that will need looking at. The dealership are stating VW should cover it under warranty and they now have nothing to do with the car. VW didn't appreciate that and so have been very kind and given me lots of photos, inspections and info on the initial health check which they advised.
It turns out that VW advised the dealer there may be issues with the wiring elsewhere in the car, but the dealer stated they didn't need that looking into.
Urgent matters were also brought to their attention when collecting the vehicle; lots of clips & seals broken as well as undertrays missing. The biggest 2 however being a gearbox reseal as it's leaking oil as well as an engine oil leak. Both of these were brought to their attention, they advised they didn't want to proceed with any of them.
They never told me any of this, instead just provided me with the invoice telling me it's all safe and good to drive. He even told me VW stated 'it's like a brand new car now'!
This has told me all I need to know about them now. I should have stuck to my guns initially and got a full refund, but hey - hindsight.
I'm now meeting a solicitor tomorrow and will be providing all of this evidence, including 2 videos from the VW head tech. The car is clearly not safe to drive and with them blatantly hiding major information from me, I'm hoping it will be an easy case in my favour...
I'll keep this thread updated, but if I can offer any advice for people like me, who isn't a mechanic and contemplating buying a CatD car... Stay. Well. Away.
4-days after VW had repaired the airbags (courtesy of the dealership), the airbag light came on the dash. I called the dealership and told them I would take it to VW personally, but should there be any extra costs - they would be getting billed.
The car went in this morning to VW (earliest possibility). After 5hrs I get a call off their master tech telling me he has bad news..
Long story short, the repair is as most of you likely expected, a complete bodge job.
Some of the wiring has been repaired with small transistors; one being the passenger seatbelt which was connected to the curtain airbag. He tells me he's never seen anything so bad and advised against driving it. He said if I'd have been in an accident in the last few months, none would have deployed.
To fix this, it would cost £831 but he tells me there'll likely be other areas that will need looking at. The dealership are stating VW should cover it under warranty and they now have nothing to do with the car. VW didn't appreciate that and so have been very kind and given me lots of photos, inspections and info on the initial health check which they advised.
It turns out that VW advised the dealer there may be issues with the wiring elsewhere in the car, but the dealer stated they didn't need that looking into.
Urgent matters were also brought to their attention when collecting the vehicle; lots of clips & seals broken as well as undertrays missing. The biggest 2 however being a gearbox reseal as it's leaking oil as well as an engine oil leak. Both of these were brought to their attention, they advised they didn't want to proceed with any of them.
They never told me any of this, instead just provided me with the invoice telling me it's all safe and good to drive. He even told me VW stated 'it's like a brand new car now'!
This has told me all I need to know about them now. I should have stuck to my guns initially and got a full refund, but hey - hindsight.
I'm now meeting a solicitor tomorrow and will be providing all of this evidence, including 2 videos from the VW head tech. The car is clearly not safe to drive and with them blatantly hiding major information from me, I'm hoping it will be an easy case in my favour...
I'll keep this thread updated, but if I can offer any advice for people like me, who isn't a mechanic and contemplating buying a CatD car... Stay. Well. Away.
Unreal. I can't believe what a total hash that is!
Just to clarify something...The car went into VW to have the airbag issue sorted and then the supplying dealer handed it back right?
After this latest fault VW had it again and found the bodges? Surely these bodges should have been picked up by VW at its first appointment?
Just to clarify something...The car went into VW to have the airbag issue sorted and then the supplying dealer handed it back right?
After this latest fault VW had it again and found the bodges? Surely these bodges should have been picked up by VW at its first appointment?
lord trumpton said:
Unreal. I can't believe what a total hash that is!
Just to clarify something...The car went into VW to have the airbag issue sorted and then the supplying dealer handed it back right?
After this latest fault VW had it again and found the bodges? Surely these bodges should have been picked up by VW at its first appointment?
Yeah, it seems the fault developed since. They've given me diagnostics from both visits which shows that the fault wasn't there initially. Just to clarify something...The car went into VW to have the airbag issue sorted and then the supplying dealer handed it back right?
After this latest fault VW had it again and found the bodges? Surely these bodges should have been picked up by VW at its first appointment?
They did find a fault with the passenger seatbelt clip on the first visit (amongst everything else) and suggested it be repaired as it was a safety issue but the dealership refused the cost and hid it from me.
On top of that, they rejected and didn't tell me about:
Interior light switch for exterior lights broken, requires new, 0.1
Requires roof lining, front door seals been glued together. 4.0
both rear panels and b pillar trims adrift, requires strip to see if new clips are needed.
Gearbox reseal required 9.0
engine oil leaks, requires diag 1.0
Dealership apparently told VW it would be done independently, however on todays visit - it shows nothing has been done.
Hash is one way of putting it.
Sorry to hear of your woes OP, best of luck.Well, it's been a long, long drawn out process but I'm happy to finally update this thread and say I've received a full refund for the car! Fortunately it didn't have to go to court in the end; the downside being I wasn't able to claim for any expenses. That said, I'm just pleased this whole debacle is over with.
In the end I had to hire a solicitor who assisted in pushing this all through. The garage were still reluctant to refund when the solicitor got in contact. They wouldn't budge initially, stating they wanted to go through an ADR and have the car inspected by an independent party which in the end was done at their cost. They came down, looked over the car and reported it was in a bad way and more importantly, wasn't a road legal or safe car to drive. The chap pointed out quite a few points which my inexperienced eyes didn't spot; he stated it looked like it had been in a major accident and had been rebuilt - pretty badly.
Even then, the garage refused to refund me the whole amount; insisting I should take a hit considering I'd owned it for over 3-months (they failed to recognise the majority of this time it's been parked up in a garage, and when I had been driving it with my family, it was in an unsafe vehicle with no airbag system).
They then stated I'd scuffed every alloy, cracked the rear bumper and dented a side panel. Thankfully I proved this was nonsense (thank you photo evidence!).
The whole situation has taken 4-months to resolve. It's been a rubbish time, but certainly a massive lesson! If I can pass on anything to someone in my position; a keen driver with limited mechanical know-how, it is to never buy a CatD/C/S/N/V car! I thought I had done my research and felt safe buying from a garage as opposed to privately, and even though it's come out in my favour, it's been a rubbish experience and not one I'll be wanting to go through again.
Whilst I still feel the garage weren't aware of the issues initially, the way they've dealt with this whole situation has been appalling. They're cowboys and have since proven that by putting the car back up for sale on their website with the words 'nice and clean car, great drive'. I'll be reporting them to Trading Standards.
So, now back on topic - can anybody recommend a decent daily with ~200bhp for around £10k?
In the end I had to hire a solicitor who assisted in pushing this all through. The garage were still reluctant to refund when the solicitor got in contact. They wouldn't budge initially, stating they wanted to go through an ADR and have the car inspected by an independent party which in the end was done at their cost. They came down, looked over the car and reported it was in a bad way and more importantly, wasn't a road legal or safe car to drive. The chap pointed out quite a few points which my inexperienced eyes didn't spot; he stated it looked like it had been in a major accident and had been rebuilt - pretty badly.
Even then, the garage refused to refund me the whole amount; insisting I should take a hit considering I'd owned it for over 3-months (they failed to recognise the majority of this time it's been parked up in a garage, and when I had been driving it with my family, it was in an unsafe vehicle with no airbag system).
They then stated I'd scuffed every alloy, cracked the rear bumper and dented a side panel. Thankfully I proved this was nonsense (thank you photo evidence!).
The whole situation has taken 4-months to resolve. It's been a rubbish time, but certainly a massive lesson! If I can pass on anything to someone in my position; a keen driver with limited mechanical know-how, it is to never buy a CatD/C/S/N/V car! I thought I had done my research and felt safe buying from a garage as opposed to privately, and even though it's come out in my favour, it's been a rubbish experience and not one I'll be wanting to go through again.
Whilst I still feel the garage weren't aware of the issues initially, the way they've dealt with this whole situation has been appalling. They're cowboys and have since proven that by putting the car back up for sale on their website with the words 'nice and clean car, great drive'. I'll be reporting them to Trading Standards.
So, now back on topic - can anybody recommend a decent daily with ~200bhp for around £10k?
Hifty said:
They're cowboys and have since proven that by putting the car back up for sale on their website with the words 'nice and clean car, great drive'. I'll be reporting them to Trading Standards.
Christ all mighty.I'm sorry I havnt read the entire thread so may have missed it, but I'd be very interested to know the name of the garage, if that doesn't break any website rules and also I think it would be worth posting the car reg.
Hifty said:
If I can pass on anything to someone in my position; a keen driver with limited mechanical know-how, it is to never buy a CatD/C/S/N/V car! I thought I had done my research and felt safe buying from a garage as opposed to privately,
Well done for getting a refund but this is the salient point in this tale.... If you are mechanically inexperienced/inept then knowingly buying a car with a 'history' really is asking to get tucked up by the shady side of the motor trade! DuraAce said:
Well done for getting a refund but this is the salient point in this tale.... If you are mechanically inexperienced/inept then knowingly buying a car with a 'history' really is asking to get tucked up by the shady side of the motor trade!
You're right and I've certainly learnt the hard way. I'm hoping someone in the same position as me 4-months ago comes across this and helps them see that it's not worth it.Whilst I'm not necessarily looking at buying from a VW garage for my next car, I'll be certainly doing my homework and arranging a pre-purchase inspection.
Torquey said:
Christ all mighty.
I'm sorry I havnt read the entire thread so may have missed it, but I'd be very interested to know the name of the garage, if that doesn't break any website rules and also I think it would be worth posting the car reg.
Not sure if it's against the rules.. That said, there's a not-so-nice black GTI up on eBay for £8990 with BBS-style alloys. The traders name is a bit fishy too..I'm sorry I havnt read the entire thread so may have missed it, but I'd be very interested to know the name of the garage, if that doesn't break any website rules and also I think it would be worth posting the car reg.
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