Returning used car within 30-days
Discussion
jsims1 said:
I see now what you mean and it has certainly been cut out to save costs, how they have managed to keep the light from coming on the dash though is anybodies guess!
After re-reading your original post I don't think it is misleading at all, it does actually make sense so that was a mistake on my part. I don't blame you for not having any faith in the repair job at all, Something like that is just downright dangerous.
Also as another poster mentioned it does look as though the passenger side mirror is missing in that picture, I also have a MK6 Golf GTi and have just stood at a similar angle infront of mine and the mirror is not hidden by the rest of the bodywork. Maybe there is more that they are hiding.
Thanks mate - I hadn't noticed the passenger mirror before, think you're right. All I was told was 'wing and bonnet damage'. The more I see/hear, the more I'm seeing it just as a really bodge repair job and I'm annoyed with myself I didn't look into it more. With the fact it was from a dealership and he told me it was just damage to the panels, I assumed all was ok. Lesson learnt!After re-reading your original post I don't think it is misleading at all, it does actually make sense so that was a mistake on my part. I don't blame you for not having any faith in the repair job at all, Something like that is just downright dangerous.
Also as another poster mentioned it does look as though the passenger side mirror is missing in that picture, I also have a MK6 Golf GTi and have just stood at a similar angle infront of mine and the mirror is not hidden by the rest of the bodywork. Maybe there is more that they are hiding.
Still not heard from the dealer but the car is with them and I won't be touching it again. I'll give them 7-days before sending a letter reiterating my demand for a refund. Hopefully they'll be speaking to the chap they sold it on behalf of to tell him to take it back.
johnnyBv8 said:
Have you got your money back yet, OP?
Unfortunately not.I returned the car last Monday 23rd. No update until last night when I received an email from them.
Dealer said:
Without prejudice
Dear mr XXX
Regarding your golf gti registration [XXXXXXX]
We have plugged your car into diagnostics and found no faults, only stored information regarding air bag deployment at time of accident.
We have also spoken to independent mot centre who carried out mot, car was fully passed at time of mot.
We have spoken to previous owner and reported car had no issues.
We also spoke to valeters who cleaned the car, who advise trims were loose when cleaning and tried to secure.
Has You have said in your email, we had no idea other than it was a cat” D”, and now that the airbags were deployed at time of accident.
We believe we done nothing wrong and reject your explanation as to why you wish to return based on loss of faith.
We however have investigated costs to replace the air bags if this is of interest to you approx £70 each +£50 to fit each.
We can offer in goodwill to find these for you at your cost but we will pay to fit,
If you are unhappy with this citizens advice/trading standards suggest we both go to A.D.R. ie alternative dispute resolution. Which we are happy to do.
Please arrange to pick up the car at your earliest convenience, if you do decide to go through ADR,
YOUR SINCERELY
Dear mr XXX
Regarding your golf gti registration [XXXXXXX]
We have plugged your car into diagnostics and found no faults, only stored information regarding air bag deployment at time of accident.
We have also spoken to independent mot centre who carried out mot, car was fully passed at time of mot.
We have spoken to previous owner and reported car had no issues.
We also spoke to valeters who cleaned the car, who advise trims were loose when cleaning and tried to secure.
Has You have said in your email, we had no idea other than it was a cat” D”, and now that the airbags were deployed at time of accident.
We believe we done nothing wrong and reject your explanation as to why you wish to return based on loss of faith.
We however have investigated costs to replace the air bags if this is of interest to you approx £70 each +£50 to fit each.
We can offer in goodwill to find these for you at your cost but we will pay to fit,
If you are unhappy with this citizens advice/trading standards suggest we both go to A.D.R. ie alternative dispute resolution. Which we are happy to do.
Please arrange to pick up the car at your earliest convenience, if you do decide to go through ADR,
YOUR SINCERELY
Whilst I'm still confident of getting a refund, it just appears it's going to be a bit more of a hassle unfortunately.
I'm going to get further legal advice and speak to CAB later, but if anyone has any suggestions, it'd be appreciated.
Thanks
As always - big thanks for the advice all.
Can anybody advise whether taking/using the car back in the meantime would go against me? Whilst I'm keen to wash my hands of it, I'm still paying insurance on the car as well as having to fork out extra insurance as a named driver on another car (A 1.4 beetle no less!).
Whilst I was happy to live with a bit of driving frustration for 2 weeks, if this is going to be ongoing for a while, I can't be doing without a car and not in a position to buy another... !
Can anybody advise whether taking/using the car back in the meantime would go against me? Whilst I'm keen to wash my hands of it, I'm still paying insurance on the car as well as having to fork out extra insurance as a named driver on another car (A 1.4 beetle no less!).
Whilst I was happy to live with a bit of driving frustration for 2 weeks, if this is going to be ongoing for a while, I can't be doing without a car and not in a position to buy another... !
jsims1 said:
I think they're taking the absolute piss asking you to pay for the airbags, they've clearly stated that they know they were deployed PRIOR to you taking ownership and now expect you to pay to rectify?!
Exactly. I'm confident if it goes to small claims/tribunal it'll go in my favour but it's just living with it all in the meantime.coldel said:
The dealer is trying it on, the CRA 2015 states
"the ‘goods’ (i.e. – the car) must be “of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and free from any defect"
Clearly with air bags missing the car is not fit for purpose, not satisfactory quality and not free from defect so it actually fails on all three conditions.
Look at section 20 here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/part/1...
The dealer has failed to fulfill the contract of purchase by supplying a car that fails the above three conditions, you rejected it within 30 days and as such by law are allowed a refund. In their own letter they state that they found the air bags missing and need replacing so they have via this email admitted that they are in fail of three conditions above selling you a car not of sufficient quality, not fit for purpose and not free from defect.
The following is all irrelevant:
"We have plugged your car into diagnostics and found no faults, only stored information regarding air bag deployment at time of accident.
We have also spoken to independent mot centre who carried out mot, car was fully passed at time of mot.
We have spoken to previous owner and reported car had no issues.
We also spoke to valeters who cleaned the car, who advise trims were loose when cleaning and tried to secure."
As you are returning the car as the air bags were missing, as is your consumer right.
The following is also irrelevant and in contradiction of the CRA 2015
"Has You have said in your email, we had no idea other than it was a cat” D”, and now that the airbags were deployed at time of accident.
We believe we done nothing wrong and reject your explanation as to why you wish to return based on loss of faith.
We however have investigated costs to replace the air bags if this is of interest to you approx £70 each +£50 to fit each.
We can offer in goodwill to find these for you at your cost but we will pay to fit,"
If you were asking for the car to be repaired so it passes the three conditions it fails they should be paying anyway.
The small claims form can be done online in no time at all, you can follow it up and chase and push it through.
Awesome, thanks Coldel! If you're ever up in Lancashire, let me know so I can buy you a beer!"the ‘goods’ (i.e. – the car) must be “of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and free from any defect"
Clearly with air bags missing the car is not fit for purpose, not satisfactory quality and not free from defect so it actually fails on all three conditions.
Look at section 20 here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/part/1...
The dealer has failed to fulfill the contract of purchase by supplying a car that fails the above three conditions, you rejected it within 30 days and as such by law are allowed a refund. In their own letter they state that they found the air bags missing and need replacing so they have via this email admitted that they are in fail of three conditions above selling you a car not of sufficient quality, not fit for purpose and not free from defect.
The following is all irrelevant:
"We have plugged your car into diagnostics and found no faults, only stored information regarding air bag deployment at time of accident.
We have also spoken to independent mot centre who carried out mot, car was fully passed at time of mot.
We have spoken to previous owner and reported car had no issues.
We also spoke to valeters who cleaned the car, who advise trims were loose when cleaning and tried to secure."
As you are returning the car as the air bags were missing, as is your consumer right.
The following is also irrelevant and in contradiction of the CRA 2015
"Has You have said in your email, we had no idea other than it was a cat” D”, and now that the airbags were deployed at time of accident.
We believe we done nothing wrong and reject your explanation as to why you wish to return based on loss of faith.
We however have investigated costs to replace the air bags if this is of interest to you approx £70 each +£50 to fit each.
We can offer in goodwill to find these for you at your cost but we will pay to fit,"
If you were asking for the car to be repaired so it passes the three conditions it fails they should be paying anyway.
The small claims form can be done online in no time at all, you can follow it up and chase and push it through.
I'll respond to them now. Not going to bother being nice any more. It might not be their fault, but it's certainly their issue and not mine.
Will keep you updated.
Good to know I'm not alone in thinking all of this. As mentioned, I was happy to give the dealership the benefit of the doubt but unfortunately they don't appear to appreciate those efforts and aren't being very helpful in response.
I've responded to the dealer stating I still want a full refund within 5-days. If they want to add hassle to the whole situation by going to ADR/small claims court, so be it as I'm protected fully by CRA.
It seems they may go with that, so I'm reading up and getting further advice for small claims procedures.
Thanks again all, will keep you updated.
I've responded to the dealer stating I still want a full refund within 5-days. If they want to add hassle to the whole situation by going to ADR/small claims court, so be it as I'm protected fully by CRA.
It seems they may go with that, so I'm reading up and getting further advice for small claims procedures.
Thanks again all, will keep you updated.
Apologies for the delayed update for those interested, it's been a busy few weeks..!
Last week it reached the 14-days and the dealership were still insistent on rejecting my claims and saying they will take it further with ADR. We had a discussion and I gave them 2 options which I would only be happy with, either:
- Full refund
- A full inspection with a genuine VW garage, airbags checked and replaced fully with a complete safety report made for my peace of mind - All paid for.
They've gone with the second option which I imagined they would and one I'm genuinely happy with. It came out of the VW garage today and has cost them just shy of £800.
Remove and reinstall roof lining - 3 hours at £100.00 per hour = £300.00 +vat
Wiring repair to both front curtain airbags due to being cut and tapped together - 1.2 hours at £100 per hour + 4 heat shrinks @ £4.00 each = £136.00 + vat
Repair wiring to n/s sunvisor as has been cut – 0.40 hours at £100.00 per hour +£40.00 plus vat
Remove and refit n/s curtain airbag – 1.2 hours at £100.00 per hour = £120.00 + vat
This is all going to be put in writing from the dealership and on top of that, I can now purchase VW extended warranty which I'm pleased about - especially having not had the tensioner replaced. I realise not everyone will have the same faith in main dealerships as I do, but in my opinion, if they've given it a good inspection I'm happy to trust it's safe to drive.
I'm picking the car up tomorrow so hope all of this is coming to a close, but will be reminding them about the 6-month right to return should I find anything else iffy..
Thanks again for all advice folks, really appreciate it!
Last week it reached the 14-days and the dealership were still insistent on rejecting my claims and saying they will take it further with ADR. We had a discussion and I gave them 2 options which I would only be happy with, either:
- Full refund
- A full inspection with a genuine VW garage, airbags checked and replaced fully with a complete safety report made for my peace of mind - All paid for.
They've gone with the second option which I imagined they would and one I'm genuinely happy with. It came out of the VW garage today and has cost them just shy of £800.
Remove and reinstall roof lining - 3 hours at £100.00 per hour = £300.00 +vat
Wiring repair to both front curtain airbags due to being cut and tapped together - 1.2 hours at £100 per hour + 4 heat shrinks @ £4.00 each = £136.00 + vat
Repair wiring to n/s sunvisor as has been cut – 0.40 hours at £100.00 per hour +£40.00 plus vat
Remove and refit n/s curtain airbag – 1.2 hours at £100.00 per hour = £120.00 + vat
This is all going to be put in writing from the dealership and on top of that, I can now purchase VW extended warranty which I'm pleased about - especially having not had the tensioner replaced. I realise not everyone will have the same faith in main dealerships as I do, but in my opinion, if they've given it a good inspection I'm happy to trust it's safe to drive.
I'm picking the car up tomorrow so hope all of this is coming to a close, but will be reminding them about the 6-month right to return should I find anything else iffy..
Thanks again for all advice folks, really appreciate it!
Well, it's been a short while but thought I'd update those who are interested in this increasingly frustrating situation.
4-days after VW had repaired the airbags (courtesy of the dealership), the airbag light came on the dash. I called the dealership and told them I would take it to VW personally, but should there be any extra costs - they would be getting billed.
The car went in this morning to VW (earliest possibility). After 5hrs I get a call off their master tech telling me he has bad news..
Long story short, the repair is as most of you likely expected, a complete bodge job.
Some of the wiring has been repaired with small transistors; one being the passenger seatbelt which was connected to the curtain airbag. He tells me he's never seen anything so bad and advised against driving it. He said if I'd have been in an accident in the last few months, none would have deployed.
To fix this, it would cost £831 but he tells me there'll likely be other areas that will need looking at. The dealership are stating VW should cover it under warranty and they now have nothing to do with the car. VW didn't appreciate that and so have been very kind and given me lots of photos, inspections and info on the initial health check which they advised.
It turns out that VW advised the dealer there may be issues with the wiring elsewhere in the car, but the dealer stated they didn't need that looking into.
Urgent matters were also brought to their attention when collecting the vehicle; lots of clips & seals broken as well as undertrays missing. The biggest 2 however being a gearbox reseal as it's leaking oil as well as an engine oil leak. Both of these were brought to their attention, they advised they didn't want to proceed with any of them.
They never told me any of this, instead just provided me with the invoice telling me it's all safe and good to drive. He even told me VW stated 'it's like a brand new car now'!
This has told me all I need to know about them now. I should have stuck to my guns initially and got a full refund, but hey - hindsight.
I'm now meeting a solicitor tomorrow and will be providing all of this evidence, including 2 videos from the VW head tech. The car is clearly not safe to drive and with them blatantly hiding major information from me, I'm hoping it will be an easy case in my favour...
I'll keep this thread updated, but if I can offer any advice for people like me, who isn't a mechanic and contemplating buying a CatD car... Stay. Well. Away.
4-days after VW had repaired the airbags (courtesy of the dealership), the airbag light came on the dash. I called the dealership and told them I would take it to VW personally, but should there be any extra costs - they would be getting billed.
The car went in this morning to VW (earliest possibility). After 5hrs I get a call off their master tech telling me he has bad news..
Long story short, the repair is as most of you likely expected, a complete bodge job.
Some of the wiring has been repaired with small transistors; one being the passenger seatbelt which was connected to the curtain airbag. He tells me he's never seen anything so bad and advised against driving it. He said if I'd have been in an accident in the last few months, none would have deployed.
To fix this, it would cost £831 but he tells me there'll likely be other areas that will need looking at. The dealership are stating VW should cover it under warranty and they now have nothing to do with the car. VW didn't appreciate that and so have been very kind and given me lots of photos, inspections and info on the initial health check which they advised.
It turns out that VW advised the dealer there may be issues with the wiring elsewhere in the car, but the dealer stated they didn't need that looking into.
Urgent matters were also brought to their attention when collecting the vehicle; lots of clips & seals broken as well as undertrays missing. The biggest 2 however being a gearbox reseal as it's leaking oil as well as an engine oil leak. Both of these were brought to their attention, they advised they didn't want to proceed with any of them.
They never told me any of this, instead just provided me with the invoice telling me it's all safe and good to drive. He even told me VW stated 'it's like a brand new car now'!
This has told me all I need to know about them now. I should have stuck to my guns initially and got a full refund, but hey - hindsight.
I'm now meeting a solicitor tomorrow and will be providing all of this evidence, including 2 videos from the VW head tech. The car is clearly not safe to drive and with them blatantly hiding major information from me, I'm hoping it will be an easy case in my favour...
I'll keep this thread updated, but if I can offer any advice for people like me, who isn't a mechanic and contemplating buying a CatD car... Stay. Well. Away.
lord trumpton said:
Unreal. I can't believe what a total hash that is!
Just to clarify something...The car went into VW to have the airbag issue sorted and then the supplying dealer handed it back right?
After this latest fault VW had it again and found the bodges? Surely these bodges should have been picked up by VW at its first appointment?
Yeah, it seems the fault developed since. They've given me diagnostics from both visits which shows that the fault wasn't there initially. Just to clarify something...The car went into VW to have the airbag issue sorted and then the supplying dealer handed it back right?
After this latest fault VW had it again and found the bodges? Surely these bodges should have been picked up by VW at its first appointment?
They did find a fault with the passenger seatbelt clip on the first visit (amongst everything else) and suggested it be repaired as it was a safety issue but the dealership refused the cost and hid it from me.
On top of that, they rejected and didn't tell me about:
Interior light switch for exterior lights broken, requires new, 0.1
Requires roof lining, front door seals been glued together. 4.0
both rear panels and b pillar trims adrift, requires strip to see if new clips are needed.
Gearbox reseal required 9.0
engine oil leaks, requires diag 1.0
Dealership apparently told VW it would be done independently, however on todays visit - it shows nothing has been done.
Hash is one way of putting it.
Well, it's been a long, long drawn out process but I'm happy to finally update this thread and say I've received a full refund for the car! Fortunately it didn't have to go to court in the end; the downside being I wasn't able to claim for any expenses. That said, I'm just pleased this whole debacle is over with.
In the end I had to hire a solicitor who assisted in pushing this all through. The garage were still reluctant to refund when the solicitor got in contact. They wouldn't budge initially, stating they wanted to go through an ADR and have the car inspected by an independent party which in the end was done at their cost. They came down, looked over the car and reported it was in a bad way and more importantly, wasn't a road legal or safe car to drive. The chap pointed out quite a few points which my inexperienced eyes didn't spot; he stated it looked like it had been in a major accident and had been rebuilt - pretty badly.
Even then, the garage refused to refund me the whole amount; insisting I should take a hit considering I'd owned it for over 3-months (they failed to recognise the majority of this time it's been parked up in a garage, and when I had been driving it with my family, it was in an unsafe vehicle with no airbag system).
They then stated I'd scuffed every alloy, cracked the rear bumper and dented a side panel. Thankfully I proved this was nonsense (thank you photo evidence!).
The whole situation has taken 4-months to resolve. It's been a rubbish time, but certainly a massive lesson! If I can pass on anything to someone in my position; a keen driver with limited mechanical know-how, it is to never buy a CatD/C/S/N/V car! I thought I had done my research and felt safe buying from a garage as opposed to privately, and even though it's come out in my favour, it's been a rubbish experience and not one I'll be wanting to go through again.
Whilst I still feel the garage weren't aware of the issues initially, the way they've dealt with this whole situation has been appalling. They're cowboys and have since proven that by putting the car back up for sale on their website with the words 'nice and clean car, great drive'. I'll be reporting them to Trading Standards.
So, now back on topic - can anybody recommend a decent daily with ~200bhp for around £10k?
In the end I had to hire a solicitor who assisted in pushing this all through. The garage were still reluctant to refund when the solicitor got in contact. They wouldn't budge initially, stating they wanted to go through an ADR and have the car inspected by an independent party which in the end was done at their cost. They came down, looked over the car and reported it was in a bad way and more importantly, wasn't a road legal or safe car to drive. The chap pointed out quite a few points which my inexperienced eyes didn't spot; he stated it looked like it had been in a major accident and had been rebuilt - pretty badly.
Even then, the garage refused to refund me the whole amount; insisting I should take a hit considering I'd owned it for over 3-months (they failed to recognise the majority of this time it's been parked up in a garage, and when I had been driving it with my family, it was in an unsafe vehicle with no airbag system).
They then stated I'd scuffed every alloy, cracked the rear bumper and dented a side panel. Thankfully I proved this was nonsense (thank you photo evidence!).
The whole situation has taken 4-months to resolve. It's been a rubbish time, but certainly a massive lesson! If I can pass on anything to someone in my position; a keen driver with limited mechanical know-how, it is to never buy a CatD/C/S/N/V car! I thought I had done my research and felt safe buying from a garage as opposed to privately, and even though it's come out in my favour, it's been a rubbish experience and not one I'll be wanting to go through again.
Whilst I still feel the garage weren't aware of the issues initially, the way they've dealt with this whole situation has been appalling. They're cowboys and have since proven that by putting the car back up for sale on their website with the words 'nice and clean car, great drive'. I'll be reporting them to Trading Standards.
So, now back on topic - can anybody recommend a decent daily with ~200bhp for around £10k?
DuraAce said:
Well done for getting a refund but this is the salient point in this tale.... If you are mechanically inexperienced/inept then knowingly buying a car with a 'history' really is asking to get tucked up by the shady side of the motor trade!
You're right and I've certainly learnt the hard way. I'm hoping someone in the same position as me 4-months ago comes across this and helps them see that it's not worth it.Whilst I'm not necessarily looking at buying from a VW garage for my next car, I'll be certainly doing my homework and arranging a pre-purchase inspection.
Torquey said:
Christ all mighty.
I'm sorry I havnt read the entire thread so may have missed it, but I'd be very interested to know the name of the garage, if that doesn't break any website rules and also I think it would be worth posting the car reg.
Not sure if it's against the rules.. That said, there's a not-so-nice black GTI up on eBay for £8990 with BBS-style alloys. The traders name is a bit fishy too..I'm sorry I havnt read the entire thread so may have missed it, but I'd be very interested to know the name of the garage, if that doesn't break any website rules and also I think it would be worth posting the car reg.
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