Lease something semi-quick or buy older and faster?

[nunpuncher]

I've done the maths on lease v buy used many many times and its possible to convincingly lean the figures slightly in any direction you want. There's often very little in it unless you decide to go for a used car that has known high running costs or a potential expense bomb in the engine bay and you factor that in to the equation.

I started leasing as I felt I was on borrowed time after running several used cars with potentially scary bills and managing to dodge the bullet. The current crop of cheaply leasable fast hatches have the same if not better performance than many 10 - 15 year old BMW, Audi, Merc and even some Porsches. However, after doing a few of these hatches now I've decided I'm going to try a bit of cheap fun, maybe an r53 Cooper S. The trouble is that all the leased fast hatches I've had have still left me wanting and often led to me picking up another car to get a bit of feel and character.

It all depends on need though. I only do about 20 miles a week and have other transport. I'd like something that inspired me to take it for a drive for the hell of it. M135i, Golf R and Cupra 290 have all failed to do that so even when on a super cheap lease they're not really worth it for me.

[nunpuncher]

I've done the maths on lease v buy used many many times and its possible to convincingly lean the figures slightly in any direction you want. There's often very little in it unless you decide to go for a used car that has known high running costs or a potential expense bomb in the engine bay and you factor that in to the equation.

I started leasing as I felt I was on borrowed time after running several used cars with potentially scary bills and managing to dodge the bullet. The current crop of cheaply leasable fast hatches have the same if not better performance than many 10 - 15 year old BMW, Audi, Merc and even some Porsches. However, after doing a few of these hatches now I've decided I'm going to try a bit of cheap fun, maybe an r53 Cooper S. The trouble is that all the leased fast hatches I've had have still left me wanting and often led to me picking up another car to get a bit of feel and character.

It all depends on need though. I only do about 20 miles a week and have other transport. I'd like something that inspired me to take it for a drive for the hell of it. M135i, Golf R and Cupra 290 have all failed to do that so even when on a super cheap lease they're not really worth it for me.

[culpz]

nunpuncher said:

I've done the maths on lease v buy used many many times and its possible to convincingly lean the figures slightly in any direction you want. There's often very little in it unless you decide to go for a used car that has known high running costs or a potential expense bomb in the engine bay and you factor that in to the equation.

I started leasing as I felt I was on borrowed time after running several used cars with potentially scary bills and managing to dodge the bullet. The current crop of cheaply leasable fast hatches have the same if not better performance than many 10 - 15 year old BMW, Audi, Merc and even some Porsches. However, after doing a few of these hatches now I've decided I'm going to try a bit of cheap fun, maybe an r53 Cooper S. The trouble is that all the leased fast hatches I've had have still left me wanting and often led to me picking up another car to get a bit of feel and character.

It all depends on need though. I only do about 20 miles a week and have other transport. I'd like something that inspired me to take it for a drive for the hell of it. M135i, Golf R and Cupra 290 have all failed to do that so even when on a super cheap lease they're not really worth it for me.

There's nothing like a touch of man maths, eh?

I think this may be my last lease. I did say that last time but, knowing how much i was going back and forth with it this time around (which i've never done before), i kinda know i wanna buy something and start saving a bit more money. I suppose it's always the fear of the unknown with used cars.

I do agree with you. Newer cars defiantly don't have quite as much character as some of the older stuff, but i do like having a decent sat nav and an automatic gearbox. My latest car i do really enjoy, but it's definitely a bit numb. Saying that, the majority of my driving isn't massively fun either!

I keep looking at the R53 Cooper S aswell, in rare automatic 'guise. I always fancied a Clio 172/182, but the stiff manual gearbox does put me off and having the DSG has made my commute so much more pleasurable. I'm also used to FI engines and that supercharger whine sounds so addictive.

I've still got 2 years to decide anyway, so no rush

[The Voice]

I used to run an M135i on my car allowance. Was on PCP.

A couple of years ago, when the BMW went back, I decided to buy an FN2 Type R. Cost me £4500.

I’m still running it now. Car allowance has paid for it in full, and now each month my full car allowance value over pays my mortgage. It’s saving me literally thousands in mortgage interest and is taking years off the term.

The Honda hasn’t cost me anything in 25k miles other than routine servicing, 2 x MOTs and 2 x tyres. Best of all, it hasn’t really depreciated and is probably worth close to what I paid for it!

It’s a fun car, which I enjoy driving. Yes, not as flash as a new bmw, but it’s really not bad.

Everyone’s different, but this has (so far) worked for me

[Brett99]

Brett99 said:

Efbe said:

culpz said:

That's pedantry at it's finest right there. So, what you're essentially saying is that brand new cars don't exist?

I've just shown, you. OP has just shown you. £6800 over 2 years for brand new compared to a 15-20k bank loan for the 3 year old car. If the latter is "laughing to the bank", then you must have some serious number issues.

The reason that you're doing the old new vs old debate is that you're categorically stating that new cars aren't real.

if you want those specific numbers, then...
So I range vwfs last week to see how much extending my 2 year lease by an additional 6 months would be. £118 a month is the answer!!

I don’t agree with your calculations. Continuing my example of paying £6800 for a golf gti dsg nav over 2 yrs...
Cost of car new is circa £27.5k
Avg price of 2 year old version of same car advertised car on Auto Trader with FSH is

Person 1 leases a brand new car for £350 a month.
Person 2 takes a loan for £16.5k and buy a 3 year old car. pay back £350 a month for 5 years. (10% Loan... for a 2.5% loan, get a car worth £20k and walk away with 15k)
After 5 years car might sell for £12k.

Person 1 has 3 years newer car initially, and 6 years newer car after 3 years, but loses everything they have paid in.
Person 2 walks away with 12k after 5 years, but has to put up with an older car.

New vs old is a pointless argument if you purely talk money. There is no way it can ever make sense, so I have no idea why you would try to argue it.
The only reason for getting a new car is either as a company car which works out well in tax, or because you want something brand new... which is a completely okay argument. I wouldn't buy a used phone/tv/clothes etc, though financially it would be more sensible.

Edited by Efbe on Thursday 26th April 12:08

Edited by Efbe on Thursday 26th April 12:08

I would question your figures if we use my current Golf gti lease deal cost of £6800 over two years.
Cost of car new to buy is around £27k
2 year old versions are going on Autotrader now for 20k. And they are dealers not private, so the owner would have likely sold to them for 18-19k. Lease deals include car tax, Therefore the costing around Of owning for the two year period would be around £8.5k. This example would seem to show that leasing in this case is definitely the winner over buying the car new and owning for the same two year period.

Now let’s look at your example of buying at 3 years old.
The cheapest 3 year old Golf gti (same spec as mine) is on AT for £17750. £1250 more than your example. If I then keep that car for 5 years as you suggest, I would then sell it at 8 years old for around £10k based on current 8 year old versions on AT. Therefore costing around £8k for 5 years. Not the £5k you calculated. Plus the uncertainty of maintenance, MOTs and road tax costs over 5 years. Adding up the greater initial cost and lower sale price at the end, I would be £3250 worse off than your calculations.

I agree that buying the used 3 year car would be overall the cheaper option, but would I rather personally be paying more and getting some piece of mind than driving round in an 8 year old car and all that comes with it. Therefore I think I have just answered my own original question in the post!

[Brett99]

Brett99 said:

Efbe said:

culpz said:

That's pedantry at it's finest right there. So, what you're essentially saying is that brand new cars don't exist?

I've just shown, you. OP has just shown you. £6800 over 2 years for brand new compared to a 15-20k bank loan for the 3 year old car. If the latter is "laughing to the bank", then you must have some serious number issues.

The reason that you're doing the old new vs old debate is that you're categorically stating that new cars aren't real.

if you want those specific numbers, then...
So I range vwfs last week to see how much extending my 2 year lease by an additional 6 months would be. £118 a month is the answer!!

I don’t agree with your calculations. Continuing my example of paying £6800 for a golf gti dsg nav over 2 yrs...
Cost of car new is circa £27.5k
Avg price of 2 year old version of same car advertised car on Auto Trader with FSH is

Person 1 leases a brand new car for £350 a month.
Person 2 takes a loan for £16.5k and buy a 3 year old car. pay back £350 a month for 5 years. (10% Loan... for a 2.5% loan, get a car worth £20k and walk away with 15k)
After 5 years car might sell for £12k.

Person 1 has 3 years newer car initially, and 6 years newer car after 3 years, but loses everything they have paid in.
Person 2 walks away with 12k after 5 years, but has to put up with an older car.

New vs old is a pointless argument if you purely talk money. There is no way it can ever make sense, so I have no idea why you would try to argue it.
The only reason for getting a new car is either as a company car which works out well in tax, or because you want something brand new... which is a completely okay argument. I wouldn't buy a used phone/tv/clothes etc, though financially it would be more sensible.

Edited by Efbe on Thursday 26th April 12:08

Edited by Efbe on Thursday 26th April 12:08

I would question your figures if we use my current Golf gti lease deal cost of £6800 over two years.
Cost of car new to buy is around £27k
2 year old versions are going on Autotrader now for 20k. And they are dealers not private, so the owner would have likely sold to them for 18-19k. Lease deals include car tax, Therefore the costing around Of owning for the two year period would be around £8.5k. This example would seem to show that leasing in this case is definitely the winner over buying the car new and owning for the same two year period.

Now let’s look at your example of buying at 3 years old.
The cheapest 3 year old Golf gti (same spec as mine) is on AT for £17750. £1250 more than your example. If I then keep that car for 5 years as you suggest, I would then sell it at 8 years old for around £10k based on current 8 year old versions on AT. Therefore costing around £8k for 5 years. Not the £5k you calculated. Plus the uncertainty of maintenance, MOTs and road tax costs over 5 years. Adding up the greater initial cost and lower sale price at the end, I would be £3250 worse off than your calculations.

I agree that buying the used 3 year car would be overall the cheaper option, but would I rather personally be paying more and getting some piece of mind than driving round in an 8 year old car and all that comes with it. Therefore I think I have just answered my own original question in the post!

[ayman82]

I had this same dilemma, I opted to cancel the lease and should hopefully be buying a Clio 172 in a few hours! It will be around the same as the initial payment on the S4 and I can try and save the £450 a month towards something more interesting in a couple of years time.

[Sterillium]

This thread is basically the argument that's going on in my brain 27/7...

The main problem I find is that the older, more interesting, more desirable (to me) cars are simply not "leasable". I'd love to be able to find lease options on slightly older XKRs, E63s, 650s etc, but to me it seems that leasing is all about new cars and to be able to "pay monthly" for older motors it's always going to have to be cash or a loan.