Modern 4x4 are quite rubbish?

[LasseV]

Hi!

I'm looking for a compact sized suv for proper use. I was surprised how utterly un-usable new cars are.. This is little bit of general rant too. I'm not looking for a proper off roader, more like winter beater, dog carrier and good car for very bad roads.

Few things are must haves for me:
- Highly and easily adjustable cargo space
- Compact size
- Fairly comfortable
- Good ground clearance and good bad road manners
- Economical

Nice to have but not must:
- Good 4x4 system

I have looked a lot of small suvs and almost every model is rubbish. They have a too small cargo space/rear hatch, ground clearance is too low and they are quite bad to drive in gravel etc. I wonder why these cars are so popular, i mean like Toyota CH-R, Q1-Q3, Mitsubishi ASX etc etc.

I did find a few good ones, namely Suzuki Vitara/S-Cross, Dacia Duster and Citroen C3 Aircross. C3 Aircross was a big surprise for me, it is comfortable, has a good ground clearance and there is a plenty of usable room. Very clever car. It doesn't have a 4x4 but that doen't matter that much, good ground clearance is much more important to have.

What are other highly usable options? New Suzuki Jimny?

[anonymous-user]

If all you want is a normal car with an extra couple of inches ground clearance then look at things like the Volvo V40 Cross Country, or the Dacia Stepway models. No need for a fashion victim fake 4x4 look.

[Challo]

LasseV said:

Hi!

I'm looking for a compact sized suv for proper use. I was surprised how utterly un-usable new cars are.. This is little bit of general rant too. I'm not looking for a proper off roader, more like winter beater, dog carrier and good car for very bad roads.

Few things are must haves for me:
- Highly and easily adjustable cargo space
- Compact size
- Fairly comfortable
- Good ground clearance and good bad road manners
- Economical

Nice to have but not must:
- Good 4x4 system

I have looked a lot of small suvs and almost every model is rubbish. They have a too small cargo space/rear hatch, ground clearance is too low and they are quite bad to drive in gravel etc. I wonder why these cars are so popular, i mean like Toyota CH-R, Q1-Q3, Mitsubishi ASX etc etc.

I did find a few good ones, namely Suzuki Vitara/S-Cross, Dacia Duster and Citroen C3 Aircross. C3 Aircross was a big surprise for me, it is comfortable, has a good ground clearance and there is a plenty of usable room. Very clever car. It doesn't have a 4x4 but that doen't matter that much, good ground clearance is much more important to have.

What are other highly usable options? New Suzuki Jimny?

The smaller SUV's are popular because they are not 4x4. These are similar in size to hatchbacks, but raised up. This makes the visibility better for the driver, easier to get kids in and out of seats etc.

[LasseV]

dme123 said:

If all you want is a normal car with an extra couple of inches ground clearance then look at things like the Volvo V40 Cross Country, or the Dacia Stepway models. No need for a fashion victim fake 4x4 look.

I like v40 xc quite a lot but it has way too small cargo space. It is tiny. Dacia Stepway is a good shout and i have never thought that...

[Pica-Pica]

Not clear what you want, OP. Title says 4x4, then you say SUV.

[troika]

You need a Subaru. I had a Land Cruiser for years, my Forester has only 20mm less ground clearance. Superb, permanent AWD system. Put A/T’s on it and it’s brilliant accross the fields, deep snow etc. Averaged 42mpg over 50K miles. Can’t go wrong really unless you need something bigger, then it’s a Land Cruiser.

[Pistonheader101]

Range rover discovery

[TheInternet]

Octavia Scout?
CR-V?
Yeti?
Older ones of all these available for not so much cash.

Edited by TheInternet on Saturday 21st July 14:22

[CJ1]

Subaru Forester?

[loskie]

twin cab pick up 4x4

[creampuff]

Pica-Pica said:

Not clear what you want, OP. Title says 4x4, then you say SUV.

Yep, they are not the same. SUV implies something with could only manage at best slightly rough dirt roads. 4x4 implies something which can manage very, very bad roads or offload.

This means a 4x4 should have high ground clearance, a low range transfer case and a centre differential lock. Try a Land Rover or a Ford Ranger if you want that. Try a Range Rover or a Grand Cherokee if you want that in a more luxurious package.

[DaveGrohl]

Hmmm, some of you seem to have missed the bit about compact size.

I was asked today what I would recommend by an older lady who was finding her Rav4 a bit too big in her advancing years but defo wanted 4x4 capability for country roads in winter. I wouldn't have said a Rav4 was in any way big so I was struggling to come up with a recommendation, hence why I am interested in this thread.

Edited by DaveGrohl on Sunday 22 July 23:27

[Pica-Pica]

creampuff said:

Pica-Pica said:

Not clear what you want, OP. Title says 4x4, then you say SUV.

Yep, they are not the same. SUV implies something with could only manage at best slightly rough dirt roads. 4x4 implies something which can manage very, very bad roads or offload.

This means a 4x4 should have high ground clearance, a low range transfer case and a centre differential lock. Try a Land Rover or a Ford Ranger if you want that. Try a Range Rover or a Grand Cherokee if you want that in a more luxurious package.

No. 4x4 means simply, 4 hub ends, and all 4 capable of being driven. Nothing necessarily to do with height or off-road capability.
Compare Lamborghini Murciélago with HMMWV





Although SAE J1952_201804 prefers the term AWD, then sub-categories, but does not appear to limit definition to ground clearance. Just saying.

Edited by Pica-Pica on Sunday 22 July 23:52

[sparkythecat]

DaveGrohl said:

Hmmm, some of you seem to have missed the bit about compact size.

I was asked today what I would recommend by an older lady who was finding her Rav4 a bit too big in her advancing years but defo wanted 4x4 capability for country roads in winter. I wouldn't have said a Rav4 was in any way big so I was struggling to come up with a recommendation, hence why I am interested in this thread.

Edited by DaveGrohl on Sunday 22 July 23:27

Suzuki Jimny is the smallest 4x4. Despite its size, its a very capable vehicle

[Slushbox]

DaveGrohl said:

Hmmm, some of you seem to have missed the bit about compact size.

I was asked today what I would recommend by an older lady who was finding her Rav4 a bit too big in her advancing years but defo wanted 4x4 capability for country roads in winter. I wouldn't have said a Rav4 was in any way big so I was struggling to come up with a recommendation, hence why I am interested in this thread.

Edited by DaveGrohl on Sunday 22 July 23:27

There's a stack of all-wheel drive small cars around from the Fiat Panda to the new Suzuki Ignis,SX4/Cross and Jimny, then Dacia Duster, Renault Koleos etc.

If older lady wants true 4x4 with a transfer box and low ratios then that's a different market segment.

[DaveGrohl]

Her and her husband are farmers (only slightly "retired") in Scotland and need 4wd for snow conditions mostly. The sort of cars I'm interested in and have knowledge of are somewhat different!! Even though I'm a farmer lol. That's a few good suggestions, I'll look into them, thanks.

My immediate thoughts were maybe a Skoda with 4x4, quality cars without being silly prices. Also some sort of Suzuki. Then I drew a blank.

Edited by DaveGrohl on Monday 23 July 08:01

[LimaDelta]

LasseV said:

Hi!

I'm looking for a compact sized suv for proper use. I was surprised how utterly un-usable new cars are.. This is little bit of general rant too. I'm not looking for a proper off roader, more like winter beater, dog carrier and good car for very bad roads.

Few things are must haves for me:
- Highly and easily adjustable cargo space
- Compact size
- Fairly comfortable
- Good ground clearance and good bad road manners
- Economical

Nice to have but not must:
- Good 4x4 system

I have looked a lot of small suvs and almost every model is rubbish. They have a too small cargo space/rear hatch, ground clearance is too low and they are quite bad to drive in gravel etc. I wonder why these cars are so popular, i mean like Toyota CH-R, Q1-Q3, Mitsubishi ASX etc etc.

I did find a few good ones, namely Suzuki Vitara/S-Cross, Dacia Duster and Citroen C3 Aircross. C3 Aircross was a big surprise for me, it is comfortable, has a good ground clearance and there is a plenty of usable room. Very clever car. It doesn't have a 4x4 but that doen't matter that much, good ground clearance is much more important to have.

What are other highly usable options? New Suzuki Jimny?

How compact? Take a look at Subaru. Proper 4x4 transmission, reliable, nicely built unpretentious workhorses. The XV is pretty small, but even the Forester isn't huge by modern standards. I have the Outback which is about A6 sized. Only issue you may have is with the fuel economy, but that is just part of the 4x4 trade-off.

[mrbarnett]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the super all-rounder the Fiat Panda 4x4. The latest version is available in 'Cross' trim, which has some genuine off-road ability, yet it has the efficient little twin-air engine. Other than that, it's as easy to live with and practical as a regular Panda (so very easy indeed).

This is the previous generation 4x4, but to illustrate just how good it is against a 'proper' 4x4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvjSp8wk3wA

[robinh73]

mrbarnett said:

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the super all-rounder the Fiat Panda 4x4. The latest version is available in 'Cross' trim, which has some genuine off-road ability, yet it has the efficient little twin-air engine. Other than that, it's as easy to live with and practical as a regular Panda (so very easy indeed).

This is the previous generation 4x4, but to illustrate just how good it is against a 'proper' 4x4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvjSp8wk3wA

Am on the lookout for a Panda 4x4 too as they are just superb. A friend has a 2007 one with the 1.3 petrol engine. I could not believe how nicely it drove for a small 4x4 and off road it was just fantastic. A proper bit of kit and sought after too.

[RSTurboPaul]

robinh73 said:

mrbarnett said:

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the super all-rounder the Fiat Panda 4x4. The latest version is available in 'Cross' trim, which has some genuine off-road ability, yet it has the efficient little twin-air engine. Other than that, it's as easy to live with and practical as a regular Panda (so very easy indeed).

This is the previous generation 4x4, but to illustrate just how good it is against a 'proper' 4x4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvjSp8wk3wA

Am on the lookout for a Panda 4x4 too as they are just superb. A friend has a 2007 one with the 1.3 petrol engine. I could not believe how nicely it drove for a small 4x4 and off road it was just fantastic. A proper bit of kit and sought after too.

I think it would be an interesting experiment to swap the 100hp engine into the 4x4 variant, and potentially the suspension although the latter might ruin some winter usability...