B-road attacking coupe in reasonable budget?
Discussion
coldel said:
Not much between an HR 350z and a 370z. Interior is improved, the car feels a bit newer and refined, but if you want something to chuck about on the weekend an HR (later 350z) is what you should go for and save the money. Unless of course you like the styling more of the 370z. Do check for oil gallery gaskets though on the HR upwards, common problem that will cost north of £800 to fix if it goes wrong.
This is the impression I had by looking at the specs and reviews. As for the style I'm split really. I like the 350Z better from some angles and the 370Z from others. I definitely hate the headlights and taillights on the 370Z. They are my biggest problem with the 370Z styling. So since the lights would be difficult to change I can probably say I prefer the 350Z styling.
Thanks for the oil gallery gaskets tip.
RobM77 said:
That's exactly it. Both are great cars, but with obvious flaws. For me, agility and control response are my top two things in a car, and I was never going to change the 350Z's clumsy throttle, leaden steering and big kerbweight. If you can forgive it of those things, there's not really anything else wrong. I have yet to drive a 350Z. But I get the impression some of this so called laziness some are talking about could probably be remedied or at least made much better. Maybe by increasing bhp output and a suspension tune up? More bhp doesn't really make a car lighter but having more power will definitely make it more responsive. And I have the impression it may be underdamped, as many cars from the time were. That may make you feel the weight more? So a suspension tune up could make a goodf difference. Since the throttle problem can be addressed as coldel says, this could cure 99% of the problems with the 350Z ?
Like I said the 350Z seems to have more options for mods and addressing problems. Since there are more of them around, pretty much anything you may want to do somebody else has probably already done it and there is probably a guide.
I'm not sure how bad the leaden steering problem you mentioned in the 350Z is. But the Z4 steering, at least the one i drove was horrible. So I guess they are even there.
Edited by ZackM on Friday 21st September 13:02
coldel said:
You can fix the throttle with a few mods i.e. Uprev mapping or similar which is circa £350 for an install. Steering is unfortunately what it is as it is a GT car. kerb weight can be addressed, a chap pulled all the sound deadening out of the boot on his car and around the rear arches and knocked something like 40kgs off. With a few mods you can get a pretty well set up car - obviously tyres and geo make all the difference so don't scrimp on those.
I was starting to wonder what could be done to cut weight. Removing the sound deadening is an interesting idea. 40Kg off is a good amount. Isn't that basically what the 370Z is lighter than the 350Z? But what effect did it have inside the cabin? Too loud? Removing the sound deadening from inside the cabin would most likely make it too loud. But I wonder what effect removing the sound deadening of the boot on his car and around the rear arches had.On a side note, removing weight from the rear of a RWD car is not exactly where I would want to remove weight from. But maybe transferring the battery to the trunk could help off set some of that.
Does it come with electric seats? I wonder if ditching that, electric mirrors and a few other things would add to much weight savings. There are a few things that I don't really need. Electric seats and mirrors are some of them. You adjust it one time and then leave it.
Edited by ZackM on Friday 21st September 13:10
ZackM said:
Sure. Personal preference plays a big role.
I have yet to drive a 350Z. But I get the impression some of this so called laziness some are talking about could probably be remedied or at least made much better. Maybe by increasing bhp output and a suspension tune up? More bhp doesn't really make a car lighter but having more power will definitely make it more responsive. And I have the impression it may be underdamped, as many cars from the time were. That may make you feel the weight more? So a suspension tune up could make a goodf difference. Since the throttle problem can be addressed as coldel says, this could cure 99% of the problems with the 350Z ?
Like I said the 350Z seems to have more options for mods and addressing problems. Since there are more of them around, pretty much anything you may want to do somebody else has probably already done it and there is probably a guide.
I'm not sure how bad the leaden steering problem you mentioned in the 350Z is. But the Z4 steering, at least the one i drove was horrible. So I guess they are even there.
You will have straight off the bat on an HR around 290-300bhp you don't really need any more. If you want to chase bhp on the zed you are going down an expensive road, will cost you circa £2k to eeeek out another 10bhp-20bhp. The remap makes the car much more responsive, and a lightened flywheel will help. Quite a few cars on forums have had a lot of the work done i.e. freeflowing exhaust, sports cats, remap etc. so would be best to go for that rather than buy stock and make all the changes yourself. I have yet to drive a 350Z. But I get the impression some of this so called laziness some are talking about could probably be remedied or at least made much better. Maybe by increasing bhp output and a suspension tune up? More bhp doesn't really make a car lighter but having more power will definitely make it more responsive. And I have the impression it may be underdamped, as many cars from the time were. That may make you feel the weight more? So a suspension tune up could make a goodf difference. Since the throttle problem can be addressed as coldel says, this could cure 99% of the problems with the 350Z ?
Like I said the 350Z seems to have more options for mods and addressing problems. Since there are more of them around, pretty much anything you may want to do somebody else has probably already done it and there is probably a guide.
I'm not sure how bad the leaden steering problem you mentioned in the 350Z is. But the Z4 steering, at least the one i drove was horrible. So I guess they are even there.
Edited by ZackM on Friday 21st September 13:02
Suspension and tyres make a huge difference, coilovers are a good option and all the main brands are available i.e. Tein BC etc.
At the end of the day its a 3.5litre V6 GT car with a naturally aspirated 300bhp that carries a little bit too much weight but for the money it's a very good option.
ZackM said:
I was starting to wonder what could be done to cut weight. Removing the sound deadening is an interesting idea. 40Kg off is a good amount. Isn't that basically what the 370Z is lighter than the 350Z? But what effect did it have inside the cabin? Too loud? Removing the sound deadening from inside the cabin would most likely make it too loud. But I wonder what effect removing the sound deadening of the boot on his car and around the rear arches had.
On a side note, removing weight from the rear of a RWD car is not exactly where I would want to remove weight from. But maybe transferring the battery to the trunk could help off set some of that.
Does it come with electric seats? I wonder if ditching that, electric mirrors and a few other things would add to much weight savings. There are a few things that I don't really need. Electric seats and mirrors are some of them. You adjust it one time and then leave it.
reducing the weight by 3% isn't going to make a noticeable improvement to the performance, but will make it unbearable to live with day to day!On a side note, removing weight from the rear of a RWD car is not exactly where I would want to remove weight from. But maybe transferring the battery to the trunk could help off set some of that.
Does it come with electric seats? I wonder if ditching that, electric mirrors and a few other things would add to much weight savings. There are a few things that I don't really need. Electric seats and mirrors are some of them. You adjust it one time and then leave it.
Edited by ZackM on Friday 21st September 13:10
You'd be better of only ever half filling the tank and going to the petrol station more often
Lightweight wheels would probably be worthwhile though...
ZackM said:
RobM77 said:
That's exactly it. Both are great cars, but with obvious flaws. For me, agility and control response are my top two things in a car, and I was never going to change the 350Z's clumsy throttle, leaden steering and big kerbweight. If you can forgive it of those things, there's not really anything else wrong. I have yet to drive a 350Z. But I get the impression some of this so called laziness some are talking about could probably be remedied or at least made much better. Maybe by increasing bhp output and a suspension tune up? More bhp doesn't really make a car lighter but having more power will definitely make it more responsive. And I have the impression it may be underdamped, as many cars from the time were. That may make you feel the weight more? So a suspension tune up could make a goodf difference. Since the throttle problem can be addressed as coldel says, this could cure 99% of the problems with the 350Z ?
Like I said the 350Z seems to have more options for mods and addressing problems. Since there are more of them around, pretty much anything you may want to do somebody else has probably already done it and there is probably a guide.
I'm not sure how bad the leaden steering problem you mentioned in the 350Z is. But the Z4 steering, at least the one i drove was horrible. So I guess they are even there.
Edited by ZackM on Friday 21st September 13:02
ZackM said:
Southern Germany at the moment. As I said budget is about the price of a 350Z. So 10-15K.
What are “B roads” like in Southern Germany?Is that 10-15k in Euros? Or £ sterling?
350z’s start at £4-5k in the U.K. And you are going to struggle to find a sub 10 year old rwd performance coupe for similar money as an alternative.
Plenty of choice if you alter your parameters though.
I like the look of the 370z. But personally have little interest in the 350z. There are simply more fun or better cars for the money. Even at the £4-6k mark in the U.K.
When new there wasn’t much in the U.K./Euro market pitched at the 350z price point, so they had a different appeal as a new vehicle. Although in places like the US they were marketed against things like V8 Mustang GT’s.
They aren’t bad cars though and if you stubbornly only want a tin top posing car with a bit of go. They probably represent very good vfm.
300bhp/ton said:
What are “B roads” like in Southern Germany?
Is that 10-15k in Euros? Or £ sterling?
350z’s start at £4-5k in the U.K. And you are going to struggle to find a sub 10 year old rwd performance coupe for similar money as an alternative.
Plenty of choice if you alter your parameters though.
I like the look of the 370z. But personally have little interest in the 350z. There are simply more fun or better cars for the money. Even at the £4-6k mark in the U.K.
When new there wasn’t much in the U.K./Euro market pitched at the 350z price point, so they had a different appeal as a new vehicle. Although in places like the US they were marketed against things like V8 Mustang GT’s.
They aren’t bad cars though and if you stubbornly only want a tin top posing car with a bit of go. They probably represent very good vfm.
What would you put in the 4-6k category out of interest (genuine interest as I may well sell my celica gt4 next year and wondering what I could buy next, have already owned an R33 Skyline, 350z and VX220 so wondering what else I could get. I don't really want a common four pot turbo hatch or a civic or the like. Wondering what you would put in at 4-6k? Is that 10-15k in Euros? Or £ sterling?
350z’s start at £4-5k in the U.K. And you are going to struggle to find a sub 10 year old rwd performance coupe for similar money as an alternative.
Plenty of choice if you alter your parameters though.
I like the look of the 370z. But personally have little interest in the 350z. There are simply more fun or better cars for the money. Even at the £4-6k mark in the U.K.
When new there wasn’t much in the U.K./Euro market pitched at the 350z price point, so they had a different appeal as a new vehicle. Although in places like the US they were marketed against things like V8 Mustang GT’s.
They aren’t bad cars though and if you stubbornly only want a tin top posing car with a bit of go. They probably represent very good vfm.
underphil said:
reducing the weight by 3% isn't going to make a noticeable improvement to the performance, but will make it unbearable to live with day to day!
You'd be better of only ever half filling the tank and going to the petrol station more often
Lightweight wheels would probably be worthwhile though...
Makes sense.You'd be better of only ever half filling the tank and going to the petrol station more often
Lightweight wheels would probably be worthwhile though...
But about your remark about making it unbearable to live with day to day. Is that in reference to the removal of trunk sound deadening from the boot or the electric mirrors and seats? If the later I wouldn't miss them at all. If the former, this is why I asked what impact it had in the cabin.
About the wheels, can you really shave off good weight there, apart from going carbon fiber wheels?
Don't often comment on these type of threads but do have experience of these types of car, Puma, TT, Cayman now getting m240i. When we bought the Mk2 TT we looked at the RX8, the TT and the Nissan. Discounted the RX8 because of the issues around fuel consumption & hot starting. So came down to the TT & 350Z.
Yes there are the different handling characteristics but what swung us to the TT was the dirty great beam across the boot space in the Nissan which meant it became functionally bonkers. We had a salesman trying to say you could get 2 golf bags in there if you knew how. Not much use if you want to put a box though in and have no intention of playing golf!
Just remember that you won't be driving on the edge of the envelope all of the time and that what seem mundane points in the heat of purchase and the driving experience can rapidly take the shine off. Puma boot filling with water each time you open it in the rain, lack of external boot release on TT making it possible to lock yourself out, exciting roar of the Cayman becoming headache inducing noise after 2 hour commute etc...
Yes there are the different handling characteristics but what swung us to the TT was the dirty great beam across the boot space in the Nissan which meant it became functionally bonkers. We had a salesman trying to say you could get 2 golf bags in there if you knew how. Not much use if you want to put a box though in and have no intention of playing golf!
Just remember that you won't be driving on the edge of the envelope all of the time and that what seem mundane points in the heat of purchase and the driving experience can rapidly take the shine off. Puma boot filling with water each time you open it in the rain, lack of external boot release on TT making it possible to lock yourself out, exciting roar of the Cayman becoming headache inducing noise after 2 hour commute etc...
RobM77 said:
Performance is fine as standard, and the suspension setup is already decent. I was referring to weight in terms of ride and handling, which is not something you can do anything about sadly. Nissan have done a very good job already.
Now you are confusing me a bit. In your other post you complimented the handling. 
ZackM said:
Makes sense.
But about your remark about making it unbearable to live with day to day. Is that in reference to the removal of trunk sound deadening from the boot or the electric mirrors and seats? If the later I wouldn't miss them at all. If the former, this is why I asked what impact it had in the cabin.
About the wheels, can you really shave off good weight there, apart from going carbon fiber wheels?
The standard 6 spoke wheels on the basic 350z are heavy as sin, the five spoke Rays are much lighter and you are looking for unsprung weight to improve the handling of the car. The Rays are amazing value given they come as standard on some Zeds and are forged lightweight wheels!But about your remark about making it unbearable to live with day to day. Is that in reference to the removal of trunk sound deadening from the boot or the electric mirrors and seats? If the later I wouldn't miss them at all. If the former, this is why I asked what impact it had in the cabin.
About the wheels, can you really shave off good weight there, apart from going carbon fiber wheels?
300bhp/ton said:
What are “B roads” like in Southern Germany?
Is that 10-15k in Euros? Or £ sterling?
350z’s start at £4-5k in the U.K. And you are going to struggle to find a sub 10 year old rwd performance coupe for similar money as an alternative.
Plenty of choice if you alter your parameters though.
I like the look of the 370z. But personally have little interest in the 350z. There are simply more fun or better cars for the money. Even at the £4-6k mark in the U.K.
When new there wasn’t much in the U.K./Euro market pitched at the 350z price point, so they had a different appeal as a new vehicle. Although in places like the US they were marketed against things like V8 Mustang GT’s.
They aren’t bad cars though and if you stubbornly only want a tin top posing car with a bit of go. They probably represent very good vfm.
Well, if I remember correctly, B roads here are a bit better than in the UK. Quite fun to drive on them really.Is that 10-15k in Euros? Or £ sterling?
350z’s start at £4-5k in the U.K. And you are going to struggle to find a sub 10 year old rwd performance coupe for similar money as an alternative.
Plenty of choice if you alter your parameters though.
I like the look of the 370z. But personally have little interest in the 350z. There are simply more fun or better cars for the money. Even at the £4-6k mark in the U.K.
When new there wasn’t much in the U.K./Euro market pitched at the 350z price point, so they had a different appeal as a new vehicle. Although in places like the US they were marketed against things like V8 Mustang GT’s.
They aren’t bad cars though and if you stubbornly only want a tin top posing car with a bit of go. They probably represent very good vfm.
I was talking Euros.
I think anywhere one would struggle to find a sub 10 year old rwd performance coupe for similar money as an alternative. But it's hard to alter the parameters much. I don't want FWD or even AWD. I don't want automatic and I don't want a hot-hatch or 2 door saloon.
By the way, you lost me here: "if you stubbornly only want a tin top posing car". What's a tin top posing car?
P.S. It's great to see the thread has a new life and useful discussions are taking place.
Keep them coming! Christmassss said:
I have never been that impressed with the 350z. It never felt that 'sporty'
If it was me and my money with your requirements, I would get an RX7 or a 200sx(ignoring the 6 cylinder thing, unless you bang an RB26 in there) with HSD coilovers.
I had a 1990 RX7 turbo. Fun car for the time. But I don't want another Wenkel. And what 200SX? S13? Here the 200SX is that, if I'm not wrong. In the U.S. is the 240SX. But that never really did anything for me. Besides it's much older than I would like too. So that is a better sports car than the 350Z?If it was me and my money with your requirements, I would get an RX7 or a 200sx(ignoring the 6 cylinder thing, unless you bang an RB26 in there) with HSD coilovers.
ZackM said:
RobM77 said:
Performance is fine as standard, and the suspension setup is already decent. I was referring to weight in terms of ride and handling, which is not something you can do anything about sadly. Nissan have done a very good job already.
Now you are confusing me a bit. In your other post you complimented the handling. The positives and negatives of any car are usually broadly agreed on amongst people. What's personal is how you match those up with your preferences. Only you can find the answer to that by test driving one.
Bone Rat said:
Don't often comment on these type of threads but do have experience of these types of car, Puma, TT, Cayman now getting m240i. When we bought the Mk2 TT we looked at the RX8, the TT and the Nissan. Discounted the RX8 because of the issues around fuel consumption & hot starting. So came down to the TT & 350Z.
Yes there are the different handling characteristics but what swung us to the TT was the dirty great beam across the boot space in the Nissan which meant it became functionally bonkers. We had a salesman trying to say you could get 2 golf bags in there if you knew how. Not much use if you want to put a box though in and have no intention of playing golf!
Just remember that you won't be driving on the edge of the envelope all of the time and that what seem mundane points in the heat of purchase and the driving experience can rapidly take the shine off. Puma boot filling with water each time you open it in the rain, lack of external boot release on TT making it possible to lock yourself out, exciting roar of the Cayman becoming headache inducing noise after 2 hour commute etc...
Interesting that you bring the trunk suspension bar up. Tiff also pointed that out as a problem. To me it doesn't bother me. It will be more like a weekend car, occasional daily driver. But I don't think I will ever need to go to the supermarket to do the weekly shopping in it. But you make a good point about what seem mundane points in the heat of purchase and the driving experience can rapidly take the shine off. Maybe I will grow to hate the trunk bar if i buy a 350Z. Who knows.Yes there are the different handling characteristics but what swung us to the TT was the dirty great beam across the boot space in the Nissan which meant it became functionally bonkers. We had a salesman trying to say you could get 2 golf bags in there if you knew how. Not much use if you want to put a box though in and have no intention of playing golf!
Just remember that you won't be driving on the edge of the envelope all of the time and that what seem mundane points in the heat of purchase and the driving experience can rapidly take the shine off. Puma boot filling with water each time you open it in the rain, lack of external boot release on TT making it possible to lock yourself out, exciting roar of the Cayman becoming headache inducing noise after 2 hour commute etc...
The TT is unfortunately FWD or AWD only. I really want RWD for this one. I have been driving FWD and 4x4 for the last several years. I'm ready for RWD fun again.
coldel said:
The standard 6 spoke wheels on the basic 350z are heavy as sin, the five spoke Rays are much lighter and you are looking for unsprung weight to improve the handling of the car. The Rays are amazing value given they come as standard on some Zeds and are forged lightweight wheels!
Are these the Rays you speak of:
Because if yes, great, as they are my favorite wheels on the 350Z. I haven't seen even an aftermarket set which looks better on it than these IMO.
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