B-road attacking coupe in reasonable budget?

[ZackM]

CABC said:

your OP presents a problem of conflicting requirements. the Z does not meet 2 - 4 of these either.
The Evora, MX5 fail on only one. Elise, MR2 fail on 3.

"front engine, RWD, manual transmission, 6 cyl. and up, nimble, sporty and fun drive on B-roads but good on the motorway too"

Which requirements the 350Z doesn't meet?

[ZackM]

CABC said:

def not nimble or good on m'way.
questionable on sporty and fun on b roads (kind of same thing really? i'll give it a half mark on those)

btw i want to love the Z. have driven several over a few days. sadly, i find it lacking. it's not a GT and not that sporty. i love that it exists though.
NB i have not driven a Nismo, which apparently is v.goood

OK. But see, now we are already getting into the subjective. This is your opinion. But Tiff Needell for example seems to disagree with you and so does several reviewers I found online. The other specs are more defining because they are facts. It is a proper coupe.It is 2 doors. It is a hard top. It is RWD. It is manual transmission. It is 6 cyl. The rest, as in if it's sporty enough for me or not is something I will have to decide for myself. But it checks all the factual boxes.

[ZackM]

MaxSo said:

https://m.mobile.de/auto-inserat/chevrolet-camaro-...

Thanks. But this is what I mean. Too much money for what it is in my opinion. And I just checked and it's almost 200kg heavier than a 350Z. So if weight is a problem with the 350Z this is even worse.

[ZackM]

CABC said:

true.
btw, did Tiff drive a std car or Nismo?
Reviews can be very subjective too, have you seen Monkey compare 370/GT86/Cayman?
i'm a big fan of the 86, but i'll admit to it's limitations, esp crap engine and lack of cruising comfort.
There's a lot to like about the Z.

It was the standard car. Not the Nismo.

Harris has his car prejudices as does Clarkson and the rest of us. Clarkson will basically put down anything Japanese. I'm not sure about Harris. But he seems quite biased towards German cars. Tiff is also biased towards German cars but he is very reasonable all around. But I didn't see the Harris review you mention. Maybe I should look it up.

[ZackM]

CDP said:

Vauxhall Monaro?

No LHD.

[ZackM]

CDP said:

FHC = Fixed head coupe
DHC = Drop head coupe

Just marketing terms.

Like Audi, BMW calling their 4 door saloons a coupe, just because they have a little slop at the rear.

But the issue with the Mercedes is not the drop roof. I personally don't want a drop roof. But this is not the issue with being my coupe or not. It's the way the roof is.

[ZackM]

CDP said:

What about the Hyundai Genisys Coupe?

Or a Ginetta?

A Ginetta in LHD? Never saw one and I'm sure it would cost an arm and a leg if it's within the age range etc.

Genesis is in the same boat as a 86GT I would say?

[ZackM]

CDP said:

Marketing terms technically defined in 1916 and based on practice in the carriage trade involving horses...

One of the requisites to be a coupe is being 2 doors. Today the call even 4 doors SUVs/Crossovers coupes.

Furthermore, I posted several pictures of the coupe shape I'm looking for. None of them match the Mercedes side view.

[ZackM]

DoubleD said:

Well your favourite presenter, Tiff, thinks that a Renault hot hatch is more fun than a Nissan.

He is indeed one of my favorite reviewers. I think the fact he was an actual racing driver carries a lot of weight against just car journalists and youtube reviewers.

He also seems the most fair all around. He is of course free to prefer a Renault over anything he wants.

[ZackM]

MaxSo said:

If I were you it'd definitely be a Z4 with some remedial action to improve the steering - a hydraulic conversion is possible I believe.

https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=106552

If you really don't like the looks then you really don't like it - but I reckon 90% would say a Z4C is a fantastic looking car. Maybe you just need to compromise on the looks a little and you may grow to like it.

Sounds like too much trouble for a car I don't love. I believe loving the car is very important with this type of car. Is not a practical car. It's a passion car. I really dislike the Z4. Especially the front. It's the same with all the Bangle era cars. The E63 BMW 6 has that same ugly sad face. If it was the next generation Z4 I could probably live with. But no coupes.

Unless there is a body kit to radically change the look of a E86?

[ZackM]

CDP said:

There was a Pontiac version in LHD.

You could always renovate and update an MGB-GT. New shells are available or get a decent example and add a modern 6 or 8 cylinder engine. Apparently a Lexus V8 is a couple of pounds lighter than a Rover V8, slightly smaller and will work with a Supra gearbox without needing a special ECU. Or save your money and get one with the Rover v8.

A coil over kit for the front and IRS kit for the rear would help the handling a lot but having thrown an MGB-GT very sideways around the Lotus test track the live rear end and handling generally is a lot better than you would expect.

Yes I think it was a Pontiac of something. A rebadged Monaro. But only in the U.S. If there is one here it's independently imported and probably expensive.

About the MGB-GT, even though it has nothing to do with what I want now, I like the sound of it. Maybe for another project. What is this new shell you speak of? Are people doing restomods or giving the Porsche Singer treatment to MGB-GTs or what?

[ZackM]

Joelonghair said:

Drop the RWD and you can look at an Audi TT 3.2 Quattro. Ticks most boxes.

Sorry but no. RWD is on top of the list along with manual transmission.

[ZackM]

MaxSo said:

Don't know about body kits -but fair enough about needing to love it. Just also consider the interior and how that makes you feel too as that's where you spend the time after all. The 350z interior is unliveable IMO.

I never sat in a 350Z. But from pictures I actually like the interior design more than the Z4, which I have driven. Somehow the 350Z interior reminds me of the V8 Vantage interior and other sports cars. At least visually. It's everything I want in a sports car. Looks business oriented and focused on sporty driving. The Z4 looks more like a saloon dashboard in my opinion. But I have no doubt the Z4 interior is better made and better finished.

[ZackM]

Kawasicki said:

I drove a nearly new 350z on a moderately bumpy b-road when they were released. Hmmm....it didn’t have the body control to attack b-roads. It felt out of it’s depth very quickly.

After being doing some reading and watching about the 350Z, I'm finding these reports really interesting. I guess it just depends on where you are coming from and what you are comparing it with? Surely if you are comparing it to a Lotus Exige or to a Mustang you would get different types of results?

But it's interesting that the crew from Fifth Gear had nothing but good things to say about the car. Reading some comments in this thread about the 350Z you would think they were testing a totally different car. The Fifth Gear crew had words such as "if you can look past the badge it's one of the greatest coupes of our time", "more than a match for rivals from BMW or Porsche", "the handling is a dream and steering very close to perfection". "will out accelerate the Cayman", "one of my all time ever favorite cars". Now these are people who get to drive the best cars in the world.

Maybe they just adjust their filter and don't try to expect or compare it to a Ferrari 812 Superfast? Or maybe they really like it that much. The fact is, they seem to have a different opinion to which I'm seeing in this thread. Maybe people putting the 350Z down here are comparing it to brand new sports cars? In the reviews they were comparing it to same age cars, obviously. I don't know what it is. But some opinions here are definitely different from some professionals who tested it.

Tiff himself said he adored it and there was only 2 things he didn't like. The suspension beam in the middle of the trunk and the plastic sat navi cover. But he could forgive it because of the way the car handles and looks. He also said the car proved to be one of the most enjoyable drives he had for years, while driving on California B roads. He said they got the balance just right. He also said you are almost getting 911 performance for half the price. Said the driving position was ideal.The seating is absolutely perfect and steering wheel just right. Driving it is a blast. He ended it up by saying the Germans better watch out because the 350Z is unbelievable value for money. When reviewing the 370Z later he said "Despite all the improvements the 370Z doesn't feel as frisky and as responsive as the 350Z did."

He was also honest about the bad things and criticized things. But the overall feeling is very different from what I'm reading in this thread. The reviews were all positive.

[ZackM]

SWTH said:

Thing is, you asked for a specific tool for a specific job - i.e. for hitting B-roads fast.

The 350Z is a good all-rounder, and feels good to drive. But if I wanted a B-road specialist the Z would be a long way down the list, because there is much better out there for that particular purpose.

I see where you are coming from. I really do. And it makes sense if you focus on the B-road attacking part. But if you dissect my OP it basically boils down to this:

"But I would like a proper coupe. Not a 2 door hatchback such as a Scirocco, or a 2 door saloon like most BMWs. More like a fastback type.

I would like front engine, RWD, manual transmission, 6 cyl. and up, nimble, sporty and fun drive on B-roads but good on the motorway too. "

This is the order of priority as well, clearly. Or I would have worded it differently.

So as you see attacking B-roads is in the end of the list, just before being also good on the motorway, which is the last priority.

The interesting thing about you calling the 350Z a good all-rounder is that, I was criticized for wanting conflicting things, i.e. good on B-roads and motorway. But by that I asked exactly for a good all-rounder. So when you say the Z is a good all-rounder, it kind of sounds like music for ears. Because let's face it, if the priority was just attack B-roads I would just get a S1 Elise and be done.

But there are all those other things on top which I consider more important in order to get the driving experience I'm looking for. Remember this is not to be a mode of transportation car. I already have that. it's a passion car. So the attributes I find important and the order of them matter. Or it will not be as lovely a driving experience for me. This is the reason i chose these attributes. But some seem to have a difficult time understanding that.

[ZackM]

blueg33 said:

Trying to restrain myself from annoying the op more by recommending a PDK Boxster . But to my mind attacking a B road needs something biased away from a GT car towards a sports car. But it’s not my money.

Was Tvr t350 ever made in left hand drive? I guess it would be way out of budget.

Maser 3200? Jag XK?

Not that these are B road attackers

About B-road attacking, please see my reply above.

TVR LHD not a chance, especially under budget. I do like the T350 and Sagaris though, regardless of this thread.

Maserati 3200 probably slightly over budget here. That is before considering all the maintenance. One of my OP requests was "Needs to be something on the more reliable side of things and not expensive to run ". And I guess it's even further away from attacking B-roads than the 350Z. So not a whole lot of sense in choosing it over the 350Z apart from the badge I guess.

Jag XK is automatic only.

As it stands it's looking like this:

A 350Z.

Or up the budget and get a 370Z. But I'm not seeing a whole lot of reasons to pay double for it. It's barely faster, barely more powerful and the handling is not being talked about as any huge improvements over the 350Z. Since I like the 350z styling more from most angles, I guess paying double for a 370Z for me would be dumb.

Or up the budget and live with my dislike for the Z4 coupe styling. Go through the trouble and expense of changing the steering. Maybe down the road pay through my nose to change that ugly nose. I know I will just get to the point that I will try doing something about it.

So which one clearly makes more sense from all the above? I would say 350Z.

Edited by ZackM on Wednesday 19th September 09:26

[ZackM]

DoubleD said:

You need to drive the car for yourself rather than just relying on what Tiff says. Go and find one to drive then buy it if you like it.

Absolutely. But it's easy to start with online reviews. Besides his opinion is public and he is a pro. And it's not only him saying the car is good. I also Jason and Vicky.

But yes, ultimately it will be my own opinion of the car which will decide. But if all the reviews were putting the car down I'm not sure I would be going out of my way to find one to test. Hence why I'm doing my research.

[ZackM]

MaxSo said:

"This is the order of priority as well, clearly. Or I would have worded it differently. wink

So as you see attacking B-roads is in the end of the list, just before being also good on the motorway, which is the last priority."

Maybe also just take another look at the all-caps thread title. I think it's fair enough to expect people thought a nimble car was a very high priority, if not the highest.

Go and drive a 350z and report back.

And don't be so rude when you come back.

I'm not sure what you mean by all-caps thread title. It's not showing all-caps here and I definitely didn't write it in all caps. Maybe you are looking at it on a phone and it's showing all caps? It's not though.

As for being rude, I'm really not trying to be. Don't know why I'm coming across this way. Is it because I'm debating? I thought this was the point of forums too.

[ZackM]

blueg33 said:

I often "attack" B roads in the Evora which has superb handling, agility and balance, even then I still think an Exige or Elise would be better for that job.

Tried the same B roads in my Tuscan - scary and much slower A-B

I am still struggling to reconcile the thread title, the ops revised priorities and the 350z

What revised priorities? My priorities have not changed. They are not revised. I haven't edited my OP. The priorities are the same since the start.

[ZackM]

underphil said:

Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 ticks every box that the 350Z does

It indeed kind of does. But here, although still within budget, they seem higher priced than a 350Z and that is for the ones which have lower power than the 350Z. They are also not really lighter. I also much prefer the looks of the 350Z which looks more sports car and less GT. So I would still give the edge to the 350Z.