Discussion
Good morning,
I am after some advice for a friend of mine.
He is changing jobs and will be commuting (motorway) for approx 150 miles per day which works out as 30 - 35k per year.
He needs to pay for his own car and fuel so looking for something suitable.
We have both always driven big engined petrol barges (he has an XJR and 4.0 XJ40 and I have an E500 as examples) so not really up to speed with the economical motorway hack.
I have suggested the criteria are:
- diesel (poss LPG)
- reliability
- comfort and refinement
He is looking at a 2015 Volvo S80 D4 for around £12 - 13k which is undoubtedly a great car. However, I have suggested something for half the price that is essentially disposable over the 5 years or so that he runs it for.
Suggestions:
Mondeo - good cars but he has had one before and not sold on it.
Insignia - does not like build quality.
Passat / Passat CC - tried and tested engine and a good package.
Skoda Superb - as above.
Other possibles:
Volvo - older model with the D5 engine which at least has 5 cylinders so less dull.
BMW E60 - not as economical but well suited.
Mercedes - an E or C class with the straight 6 or V6 in.
I am sure there are loads of options with a tried and tested 4 cylinder diesel the most sensible, if least inspiring, choice!
Any thoughts from those in a similar position?
I am after some advice for a friend of mine.
He is changing jobs and will be commuting (motorway) for approx 150 miles per day which works out as 30 - 35k per year.
He needs to pay for his own car and fuel so looking for something suitable.
We have both always driven big engined petrol barges (he has an XJR and 4.0 XJ40 and I have an E500 as examples) so not really up to speed with the economical motorway hack.
I have suggested the criteria are:
- diesel (poss LPG)
- reliability
- comfort and refinement
He is looking at a 2015 Volvo S80 D4 for around £12 - 13k which is undoubtedly a great car. However, I have suggested something for half the price that is essentially disposable over the 5 years or so that he runs it for.
Suggestions:
Mondeo - good cars but he has had one before and not sold on it.
Insignia - does not like build quality.
Passat / Passat CC - tried and tested engine and a good package.
Skoda Superb - as above.
Other possibles:
Volvo - older model with the D5 engine which at least has 5 cylinders so less dull.
BMW E60 - not as economical but well suited.
Mercedes - an E or C class with the straight 6 or V6 in.
I am sure there are loads of options with a tried and tested 4 cylinder diesel the most sensible, if least inspiring, choice!
Any thoughts from those in a similar position?
I agree with you that a cheaper car is a better idea - it lets him have a war chest if something goes wrong, and saves trashing the value doing so many miles.
The S80 is a great car with the D5 engine, very comfortable seats and a good winter car.
I have a W211 with the straight-six diesel and it's a fantastic car, the engine is a real highlight, I get over 40mpg even using every drop of the performance on a 35 mile A-road commute, motorway trips at 80+ are an easy 45mpg.
Perhaps worth considering the W220 with the same engine - performance will be a little less brisk, the economy will be marginally worse, but it'll be a more comfortable and relaxing place to do those kind of miles which is (imo) key.
The S80 is a great car with the D5 engine, very comfortable seats and a good winter car.
I have a W211 with the straight-six diesel and it's a fantastic car, the engine is a real highlight, I get over 40mpg even using every drop of the performance on a 35 mile A-road commute, motorway trips at 80+ are an easy 45mpg.
Perhaps worth considering the W220 with the same engine - performance will be a little less brisk, the economy will be marginally worse, but it'll be a more comfortable and relaxing place to do those kind of miles which is (imo) key.
It does sound strange dosen’t it!
The back story, without giving too much away, is that he is leaving the Armed Forces to be able to spend more time at home and a commute is an acceptable way to achieve.
He needs a job and was offered one by Amazon at a suitable level commensurate with his current position.
No idea what he can claim etc and, as with these things, he may not stay with the company forever so I think a cheaper car is good as his situation may change when he does not need the same car requirements.
The back story, without giving too much away, is that he is leaving the Armed Forces to be able to spend more time at home and a commute is an acceptable way to achieve.
He needs a job and was offered one by Amazon at a suitable level commensurate with his current position.
No idea what he can claim etc and, as with these things, he may not stay with the company forever so I think a cheaper car is good as his situation may change when he does not need the same car requirements.
I'm doing 120 miles a day at the moment, and thus have the opportunity to try all the fleet on this run. Current winner is an Alfa 159 2.4 Estate. Lovely place to be when driving, does about 40 mpg at a realistic motorway speed (does nearly 50 mpg on the average speed restricted sections...), I really want for nothing more. You can get diesel ones for buttons at the moment and this is the sweet spot for using them.
Alternatives I have tried:
Alfa 156 JTD 10v - similar MPG, more fun on B roads, less fun on the motorway. Needs a 6th gear. But given that I got mine for £300, I'm not complaining.
Alfa 166 3.2 - even better than the 159 in terms of comfort, unfortunately £140 a week on petrol renders this occasional use only.
Before anyone bangs on about Alfa reliability - the 159 is at 170K the 156 is 140K and the 166 is 157K .....
Alternatives I have tried:
Alfa 156 JTD 10v - similar MPG, more fun on B roads, less fun on the motorway. Needs a 6th gear. But given that I got mine for £300, I'm not complaining.
Alfa 166 3.2 - even better than the 159 in terms of comfort, unfortunately £140 a week on petrol renders this occasional use only.
Before anyone bangs on about Alfa reliability - the 159 is at 170K the 156 is 140K and the 166 is 157K .....
Edited by rxe on Wednesday 19th September 11:07
30k miles a year is a lot and 25p per mile if claimable doesn't go far when you're looking at premium brands.
If he will be reliant on the vehicle I'd be looking at a 1.5-2 year old i40.
3 years warranty remaining with no mileage limit
comfortable
economical
decent looking
low servicing and repair cost main dealers
not exactly exciting but you cant have everything.
edit:
off the wall but providing mileage doesnt fluctuate too much, could a ex demo leaf not be an option? laround 200 miles range and minimal servicing/fuel costs
If he will be reliant on the vehicle I'd be looking at a 1.5-2 year old i40.
3 years warranty remaining with no mileage limit
comfortable
economical
decent looking
low servicing and repair cost main dealers
not exactly exciting but you cant have everything.
edit:
off the wall but providing mileage doesnt fluctuate too much, could a ex demo leaf not be an option? laround 200 miles range and minimal servicing/fuel costs
Edited by andburg on Wednesday 19th September 11:20
When these threads pop up, it always without fail gravitates to German cars. I just don't understand that.
You are paying a premium for a badge. If it is essentially a disposable car, then you want to pay as little up front as possible whilst still fulfilling your criteria. For example buying a Passat over a Suberb makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, you have just wasted £xxxx in paying more money for the same car, or arguably a poorer specced one.
Ask your friend who else will be travelling with him. If it's 90% of the time going to be nobody, why is he buying a big family car like a Superb, Volvo, etc?
What are the priorities? Comfortable and fuel efficient without breaking the bank I'm guessing. Something that will do 35k a year with just routine maintenance and being worth only a few hundred at the end of it all?
Start looking at Volvo V40s/Focus/Toyota Auris/MINI/Citroen C3/4/Peugeot 308/Hyundai i30 etc,
All very capable of 150 miles a day, all cheap to buy and run, all comfortable.
You are paying a premium for a badge. If it is essentially a disposable car, then you want to pay as little up front as possible whilst still fulfilling your criteria. For example buying a Passat over a Suberb makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, you have just wasted £xxxx in paying more money for the same car, or arguably a poorer specced one.
Ask your friend who else will be travelling with him. If it's 90% of the time going to be nobody, why is he buying a big family car like a Superb, Volvo, etc?
What are the priorities? Comfortable and fuel efficient without breaking the bank I'm guessing. Something that will do 35k a year with just routine maintenance and being worth only a few hundred at the end of it all?
Start looking at Volvo V40s/Focus/Toyota Auris/MINI/Citroen C3/4/Peugeot 308/Hyundai i30 etc,
All very capable of 150 miles a day, all cheap to buy and run, all comfortable.
my motorway hack is a '12 E91 3er, good car to run and good car to maintain, if looked after they are pretty bullet proof, and don't give me the jib about the chocolate timing chains, they don't break unless they are abused (i.e not changing oil regulary) - I do circa 30k a year in this, and have done for the past 3 years, pretty solid car.
M-Sport seats and Cruise, in the non chavvy SE guise (what other specs/ICE does one need)??
But, a Toyota Avensis D4D Estate would be a good choice I think, and would happily have another one.
M-Sport seats and Cruise, in the non chavvy SE guise (what other specs/ICE does one need)??
But, a Toyota Avensis D4D Estate would be a good choice I think, and would happily have another one.
Edited by DailyHack on Wednesday 19th September 12:43
Tyre Smoke said:
When these threads pop up, it always without fail gravitates to German cars. I just don't understand that.
You are paying a premium for a badge. If it is essentially a disposable car, then you want to pay as little up front as possible whilst still fulfilling your criteria. For example buying a Passat over a Suberb makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, you have just wasted £xxxx in paying more money for the same car, or arguably a poorer specced one.
Ask your friend who else will be travelling with him. If it's 90% of the time going to be nobody, why is he buying a big family car like a Superb, Volvo, etc?
What are the priorities? Comfortable and fuel efficient without breaking the bank I'm guessing. Something that will do 35k a year with just routine maintenance and being worth only a few hundred at the end of it all?
Start looking at Volvo V40s/Focus/Toyota Auris/MINI/Citroen C3/4/Peugeot 308/Hyundai i30 etc,
All very capable of 150 miles a day, all cheap to buy and run, all comfortable.
The reason I would recommend a German car for Motorway work is because they tend to make bigger engined diesels a four cylinder petrol or diesel are adequate but if you can have a 3.0d it's smoothness is a benefit you will notice over 30-35k.You are paying a premium for a badge. If it is essentially a disposable car, then you want to pay as little up front as possible whilst still fulfilling your criteria. For example buying a Passat over a Suberb makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, you have just wasted £xxxx in paying more money for the same car, or arguably a poorer specced one.
Ask your friend who else will be travelling with him. If it's 90% of the time going to be nobody, why is he buying a big family car like a Superb, Volvo, etc?
What are the priorities? Comfortable and fuel efficient without breaking the bank I'm guessing. Something that will do 35k a year with just routine maintenance and being worth only a few hundred at the end of it all?
Start looking at Volvo V40s/Focus/Toyota Auris/MINI/Citroen C3/4/Peugeot 308/Hyundai i30 etc,
All very capable of 150 miles a day, all cheap to buy and run, all comfortable.
There are some good exceptions & I'll list them below also the OP's friend is used to big engined V8's so a 3.0d is an option that will make the OP feel like they've taken as big a step back.
In your friends position I'd be looking to buy one of the cars below because your friend could run one for 4 years & he has a reliable car.
Also with those kind of miles spending around 14k makes sense because you can land a good low mileage car (which you can in some cases extend the Manufacturers Warranty) & then run it into the ground & hopefully you get a very reliable car in the process.
Non German alternatives:
Infiniti M Premium S/GT
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Jaguar XJ
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
XF S Portfolio
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
S Premium Luxury
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Volvo S80 D5 SE Lux
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
2.0d Options:
508 GT SW
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Infiniti Q50 Sport
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
The German option I would go for:
Mercedes E320/350cdi
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
From the above the Infiniti M is well worth a look, if it was my money then that's where I'd be looking but the Jag's are hard to ignore.
Look for a Citroen C5 with a HDI engine. The older model (DC/DE) had a facelift in 2005 that made the looks more palatable. It is supremly comfortable, the diesel engines are amongst the best in the industry and they can be had dirt cheap. The reliability is a lot better then you would expect.
The newer model from 2009 on actually looks good, and continues the tradition of incredible comfort (hydropneumatic suspension was an option on this model, but well worth the price).
Most other cars (exept an S-Klasse) are in the stone age when it comes to a comfort comparison ith the C5. These cars draw on a half a century long tradition of purusing a comfortable ride.
Your mate will thank you after the first week commuting in one of these barges
The newer model from 2009 on actually looks good, and continues the tradition of incredible comfort (hydropneumatic suspension was an option on this model, but well worth the price).
Most other cars (exept an S-Klasse) are in the stone age when it comes to a comfort comparison ith the C5. These cars draw on a half a century long tradition of purusing a comfortable ride.
Your mate will thank you after the first week commuting in one of these barges
ZX10R NIN said:
Tyre Smoke said:
When these threads pop up, it always without fail gravitates to German cars. I just don't understand that.
You are paying a premium for a badge. If it is essentially a disposable car, then you want to pay as little up front as possible whilst still fulfilling your criteria. For example buying a Passat over a Suberb makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, you have just wasted £xxxx in paying more money for the same car, or arguably a poorer specced one.
Ask your friend who else will be travelling with him. If it's 90% of the time going to be nobody, why is he buying a big family car like a Superb, Volvo, etc?
What are the priorities? Comfortable and fuel efficient without breaking the bank I'm guessing. Something that will do 35k a year with just routine maintenance and being worth only a few hundred at the end of it all?
Start looking at Volvo V40s/Focus/Toyota Auris/MINI/Citroen C3/4/Peugeot 308/Hyundai i30 etc,
All very capable of 150 miles a day, all cheap to buy and run, all comfortable.
The reason I would recommend a German car for Motorway work is because they tend to make bigger engined diesels a four cylinder petrol or diesel are adequate but if you can have a 3.0d it's smoothness is a benefit you will notice over 30-35k.You are paying a premium for a badge. If it is essentially a disposable car, then you want to pay as little up front as possible whilst still fulfilling your criteria. For example buying a Passat over a Suberb makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, you have just wasted £xxxx in paying more money for the same car, or arguably a poorer specced one.
Ask your friend who else will be travelling with him. If it's 90% of the time going to be nobody, why is he buying a big family car like a Superb, Volvo, etc?
What are the priorities? Comfortable and fuel efficient without breaking the bank I'm guessing. Something that will do 35k a year with just routine maintenance and being worth only a few hundred at the end of it all?
Start looking at Volvo V40s/Focus/Toyota Auris/MINI/Citroen C3/4/Peugeot 308/Hyundai i30 etc,
All very capable of 150 miles a day, all cheap to buy and run, all comfortable.
There are some good exceptions & I'll list them below also the OP's friend is used to big engined V8's so a 3.0d is an option that will make the OP feel like they've taken as big a step back.
In your friends position I'd be looking to buy one of the cars below because your friend could run one for 4 years & he has a reliable car.
Also with those kind of miles spending around 14k makes sense because you can land a good low mileage car (which you can in some cases extend the Manufacturers Warranty) & then run it into the ground & hopefully you get a very reliable car in the process.
Non German alternatives:
Infiniti M Premium S/GT
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Jaguar XJ
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
XF S Portfolio
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
S Premium Luxury
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Volvo S80 D5 SE Lux
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
2.0d Options:
508 GT SW
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Infiniti Q50 Sport
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
The German option I would go for:
Mercedes E320/350cdi
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
From the above the Infiniti M is well worth a look, if it was my money then that's where I'd be looking but the Jag's are hard to ignore.
If it's just a commuter it doesn't need to be a status symbol. I don't get why a lot of cabbies buy an E Class Merc as a taxi. Much bigger initial outlay, higher finance payments, potentially higher maintenance costs, no increase in revenue - the meter is fixed by the council, you cannot legally charge a premium over meter rate. So it's just a status symbol. Personally, I'd rather keep my costs down and maximise my profit.
This sort of equates to the OP mate, keep your costs as low as possible (start with a vehicle that has done the majority of it's depreciation) then go for comfort and economy. You really don't want to be working to pay for the cost of getting to work any more than you have to.
If you can ignore all the old Ford switch gear, remove the chrome tat and fix the exhaust hanger, this could be (and would likely be my choice) a pretty decent way to commute for for a bag of sand (that 1000 pounds right?)
S-Type Jag 3.0 LPG
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
S-Type Jag 3.0 LPG
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Tyre Smoke said:
Disagree. I drive a V8 petrol Range Rover as my personal car. I also drive a lot of taxis every day, covering in excesss of 50k miles a year. The most important thing is comfort and economy. A big German diesel will just leech money in depreciation and fuel unlike a (good example in your post) Peugeot 508 which will be frugal on fuel and is extremely comfortable.
If it's just a commuter it doesn't need to be a status symbol. I don't get why a lot of cabbies buy an E Class Merc as a taxi. Much bigger initial outlay, higher finance payments, potentially higher maintenance costs, no increase in revenue - the meter is fixed by the council, you cannot legally charge a premium over meter rate. So it's just a status symbol. Personally, I'd rather keep my costs down and maximise my profit.
This sort of equates to the OP mate, keep your costs as low as possible (start with a vehicle that has done the majority of it's depreciation) then go for comfort and economy. You really don't want to be working to pay for the cost of getting to work any more than you have to.
If it's just a commuter it doesn't need to be a status symbol. I don't get why a lot of cabbies buy an E Class Merc as a taxi. Much bigger initial outlay, higher finance payments, potentially higher maintenance costs, no increase in revenue - the meter is fixed by the council, you cannot legally charge a premium over meter rate. So it's just a status symbol. Personally, I'd rather keep my costs down and maximise my profit.
This sort of equates to the OP mate, keep your costs as low as possible (start with a vehicle that has done the majority of it's depreciation) then go for comfort and economy. You really don't want to be working to pay for the cost of getting to work any more than you have to.
Tyre Smoke said:
Disagree. I drive a V8 petrol Range Rover as my personal car. I also drive a lot of taxis every day, covering in excesss of 50k miles a year. The most important thing is comfort and economy. A big German diesel will just leech money in depreciation and fuel unlike a (good example in your post) Peugeot 508 which will be frugal on fuel and is extremely comfortable.
If it's just a commuter it doesn't need to be a status symbol. I don't get why a lot of cabbies buy an E Class Merc as a taxi. Much bigger initial outlay, higher finance payments, potentially higher maintenance costs, no increase in revenue - the meter is fixed by the council, you cannot legally charge a premium over meter rate. So it's just a status symbol. Personally, I'd rather keep my costs down and maximise my profit.
This sort of equates to the OP mate, keep your costs as low as possible (start with a vehicle that has done the majority of it's depreciation) then go for comfort and economy. You really don't want to be working to pay for the cost of getting to work any more than you have to.
Driving a car for taxi purposes is different to driving 35k also the Mercedes I listed were similar in price & mileage to everything else listed. If it's just a commuter it doesn't need to be a status symbol. I don't get why a lot of cabbies buy an E Class Merc as a taxi. Much bigger initial outlay, higher finance payments, potentially higher maintenance costs, no increase in revenue - the meter is fixed by the council, you cannot legally charge a premium over meter rate. So it's just a status symbol. Personally, I'd rather keep my costs down and maximise my profit.
This sort of equates to the OP mate, keep your costs as low as possible (start with a vehicle that has done the majority of it's depreciation) then go for comfort and economy. You really don't want to be working to pay for the cost of getting to work any more than you have to.
As I also said in the OP's position those Infiniti M's are well worth looking into as was everything else, so over to you Junglie does your friend have any opinions on the suggestions so far?
Morning chaps,
I think they have convinced him to look in the cheaper £5 - 6k bracket and throw it away after 5 years.
I have suggested the Mercedes as I have had the same 3.0 V6 cdi engine in a C class and loved it.
I think the additional fuel cost of any 5 or 6 cylinder diesel, enjoying the torque and refinement, outweighs the horror of 4 cylinder ownership even if economy is better!
I think they have convinced him to look in the cheaper £5 - 6k bracket and throw it away after 5 years.
I have suggested the Mercedes as I have had the same 3.0 V6 cdi engine in a C class and loved it.
I think the additional fuel cost of any 5 or 6 cylinder diesel, enjoying the torque and refinement, outweighs the horror of 4 cylinder ownership even if economy is better!
junglie said:
Morning chaps,
I think they have convinced him to look in the cheaper £5 - 6k bracket and throw it away after 5 years.
I have suggested the Mercedes as I have had the same 3.0 V6 cdi engine in a C class and loved it.
I think the additional fuel cost of any 5 or 6 cylinder diesel, enjoying the torque and refinement, outweighs the horror of 4 cylinder ownership even if economy is better!
My Mazda6 diesel 2.2 is a great motorway hack. Actually about to put it up for sale as I am now working from home. Would recommend one for long hours on the mway - cheap, efficient, decent space and handles a bit better than a VAG bulld.I think they have convinced him to look in the cheaper £5 - 6k bracket and throw it away after 5 years.
I have suggested the Mercedes as I have had the same 3.0 V6 cdi engine in a C class and loved it.
I think the additional fuel cost of any 5 or 6 cylinder diesel, enjoying the torque and refinement, outweighs the horror of 4 cylinder ownership even if economy is better!
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