Diesels - are they a risky buy?
Discussion
Some of you may have read that a few weeks back i was considering moving from my 2 litre ultra A4 s line to a S5 or 435d or 440i bmw.
BMW are practically giving the 435d away and the performance is similar to the S5 but a lightly better economy. I realise part of this deal is a desire to shift 4 series before they announce the new one summer next year, but my concern is whether Diesels are the way to go at the minute.
They seem to be the dirty word right now and if i were to get into a 4 year deal (though i never keep a car that long), it could really bite me on the arse.
FInally - what would you guys recommend car wise. Was put off the S5 for fear of it being robbed, partly from some comments in the S5 thread on here.
BMW are practically giving the 435d away and the performance is similar to the S5 but a lightly better economy. I realise part of this deal is a desire to shift 4 series before they announce the new one summer next year, but my concern is whether Diesels are the way to go at the minute.
They seem to be the dirty word right now and if i were to get into a 4 year deal (though i never keep a car that long), it could really bite me on the arse.
FInally - what would you guys recommend car wise. Was put off the S5 for fear of it being robbed, partly from some comments in the S5 thread on here.
Shiv_P said:
The S5 has a nice sounding V6 petrol. If the 435d offers only slightly better economy then I would get the S5. It also has a far nicer interior
Oh i agree, but given the deals on the table you are talking at the bmw being £100 a month cheaper. the 440i would be cheaper too. I agree on the interior and as an android user I would find moving away from Audi to BMW that bit more annoying, however it seems a lot of car for the prices they are looking at. For example a 435d with a far bit of added extras was quoted to me as £2k up front and £440 pcm on a 10k deal. The S5 would be £100 more and a few extra quid on the deposit (again with some added extras).My thinking was the 435d gives that performance but probably is a bit less likely to get pinched, and with the money saving....
The bigger question is whether diesels are a risk, given the political climate at the minute.
When you talk about risky, do you mean in terns of residual value?
The figures you quoted imply that the car is on a PCP and one of the advantages of that is that in the event of the a*se falling out of the used car market you are protected by the Guaranteed Future Value ( if you keep it that long ) or the ability to do a Voluntary Termination once the conditions have been met ( if you don't keep it that long ) .
So don't try and overthink it or second guess the future market, just get the car that you really fancy, whichever that is.
The figures you quoted imply that the car is on a PCP and one of the advantages of that is that in the event of the a*se falling out of the used car market you are protected by the Guaranteed Future Value ( if you keep it that long ) or the ability to do a Voluntary Termination once the conditions have been met ( if you don't keep it that long ) .
So don't try and overthink it or second guess the future market, just get the car that you really fancy, whichever that is.
Wooda80 said:
When you talk about risky, do you mean in terns of residual value?
The figures you quoted imply that the car is on a PCP and one of the advantages of that is that in the event of the a*se falling out of the used car market you are protected by the Guaranteed Future Value ( if you keep it that long ) or the ability to do a Voluntary Termination once the conditions have been met ( if you don't keep it that long ) .
So don't try and overthink it or second guess the future market, just get the car that you really fancy, whichever that is.
Thats a fair point, I suppose my bigger concern would be if they start throwing the price of diesel up disproportionately to that of petrol.The figures you quoted imply that the car is on a PCP and one of the advantages of that is that in the event of the a*se falling out of the used car market you are protected by the Guaranteed Future Value ( if you keep it that long ) or the ability to do a Voluntary Termination once the conditions have been met ( if you don't keep it that long ) .
So don't try and overthink it or second guess the future market, just get the car that you really fancy, whichever that is.
euphoricmess said:
Wooda80 said:
When you talk about risky, do you mean in terns of residual value?
The figures you quoted imply that the car is on a PCP and one of the advantages of that is that in the event of the a*se falling out of the used car market you are protected by the Guaranteed Future Value ( if you keep it that long ) or the ability to do a Voluntary Termination once the conditions have been met ( if you don't keep it that long ) .
So don't try and overthink it or second guess the future market, just get the car that you really fancy, whichever that is.
Thats a fair point, I suppose my bigger concern would be if they start throwing the price of diesel up disproportionately to that of petrol.The figures you quoted imply that the car is on a PCP and one of the advantages of that is that in the event of the a*se falling out of the used car market you are protected by the Guaranteed Future Value ( if you keep it that long ) or the ability to do a Voluntary Termination once the conditions have been met ( if you don't keep it that long ) .
So don't try and overthink it or second guess the future market, just get the car that you really fancy, whichever that is.
Id expect more of the same tbh
I have no worries about my two diesels & when the time comes to replace them I'll buy diesel again because myself & the OH do enough miles that even with the 8p difference in fuel they workout the better car when it comes to petrol vs diesel.
Also remember the price difference is set by the petrol companies not the government (diesel is cheaper to make than petrol so the only reason for the price difference is profiteering) the government has already stated it will base it's policy on emission levels not on the type of fuel.
If you can afford it then the S5/440i are better cars if you can find a D3 then they're better than everything listed but it's all relative, like everyone on here you should buy the cars that suits your needs, not the car other people consider good/bad.
Also remember the price difference is set by the petrol companies not the government (diesel is cheaper to make than petrol so the only reason for the price difference is profiteering) the government has already stated it will base it's policy on emission levels not on the type of fuel.
If you can afford it then the S5/440i are better cars if you can find a D3 then they're better than everything listed but it's all relative, like everyone on here you should buy the cars that suits your needs, not the car other people consider good/bad.
ZX10R NIN said:
I have no worries about my two diesels & when the time comes to replace them I'll buy diesel again because myself & the OH do enough miles that even with the 8p difference in fuel they workout the better car when it comes to petrol vs diesel.
Also remember the price difference is set by the petrol companies not the government (diesel is cheaper to make than petrol so the only reason for the price difference is profiteering) the government has already stated it will base it's policy on emission levels not on the type of fuel.
If you can afford it then the S5/440i are better cars if you can find a D3 then they're better than everything listed but it's all relative, like everyone on here you should buy the cars that suits your needs, not the car other people consider good/bad.
You make some fair points, and of course and decision I make will be based on my needs but more data from others helps inform a decision. Also remember the price difference is set by the petrol companies not the government (diesel is cheaper to make than petrol so the only reason for the price difference is profiteering) the government has already stated it will base it's policy on emission levels not on the type of fuel.
If you can afford it then the S5/440i are better cars if you can find a D3 then they're better than everything listed but it's all relative, like everyone on here you should buy the cars that suits your needs, not the car other people consider good/bad.
Interestingly was in Audi today as had my service and chatted to the women about the sq5 Infront of us. It had been a diesel and an incredible one at that, but is not a petrol as Audi intend to phase out diesel.
euphoricmess said:
Thats a fair point, I suppose my bigger concern would be if they start throwing the price of diesel up disproportionately to that of petrol.
That's not going to happen to any great extent in the foreseeable future - apart from anything else commercial vehicles are still almost 100% deisel.I'd be slightly concerned if I had to drive into a major city as diesel cars might get banned, but even then it's usually pre Euro 6 diesels that are targetted.
Haven't Porsche also stopped diesels along with other manufacturers?
I don't think diesel cars will be banned from cities, at least not for a long time, but instead there'll probably be ever increasing fees to pay instead because we all know the Government don't really give a toss about our health, it's money. Always money. There's LEZ's being planned that will start with buses etc but will move onto cars.
I would still be confident to lease a car for the next three years, but I would't buy one purely because of the depreciation they will suffer.
I don't think diesel cars will be banned from cities, at least not for a long time, but instead there'll probably be ever increasing fees to pay instead because we all know the Government don't really give a toss about our health, it's money. Always money. There's LEZ's being planned that will start with buses etc but will move onto cars.
I would still be confident to lease a car for the next three years, but I would't buy one purely because of the depreciation they will suffer.
dmsims said:
Look at where Honda have gone with the CR-V (no diesels for the new one)
300bhp/ton said:
The original one didn't have a diesel either. Not sure it's proof of anything.
How long would it have taken you to verify that fatuous "fact", all those Diesel CR-V sellers on Autotrader are going to be disappointed 
Edited by dmsims on Monday 19th November 17:33
ZX10R NIN said:
As long as your diesel is Euro6 then you'll be fine in Citys etc as has already been stated by the government all decisions are to be emission based not fuel based.
Most Euro6 smash the limits in the real world and are disastrous for healthDiesel will be the next tobacco in terms of liability/compensation
The health risks have always been known
WLTP seems to say different but I'm happy with my cars & as I said I'll be buying diesel again as they suit my needs, there are lots of things that are more polluting cars only come top of the list if you measure Nitrates only whereas when you measure everything in the atmosphere it's a different story.
Also blaming cars when you have 20mph limits (at which point all cars are at their worst emissions wise) councils that have managed to reduce road space for private vehicles by 1/3 (in London) then add more traffic lights than you can shake a stick at as well as cutting out the rat runs & you have a recipe for poor emissions from all cars but a great excuse to blame someone else.
Councils/TFL (Tax For Londoners) rather than admit to their own failings with new road systems that cause traffic jams rather than helping the traffic flow through the towns & cities they're in charge of they'll blame car drivers & cars, whilst playing the divide & conquer movement of blaming one type of car.
So then you get people on forums sucking it up & ranting about this type of car being all bad rather than looking at the cause they just blame the effect.
Also blaming cars when you have 20mph limits (at which point all cars are at their worst emissions wise) councils that have managed to reduce road space for private vehicles by 1/3 (in London) then add more traffic lights than you can shake a stick at as well as cutting out the rat runs & you have a recipe for poor emissions from all cars but a great excuse to blame someone else.
Councils/TFL (Tax For Londoners) rather than admit to their own failings with new road systems that cause traffic jams rather than helping the traffic flow through the towns & cities they're in charge of they'll blame car drivers & cars, whilst playing the divide & conquer movement of blaming one type of car.
So then you get people on forums sucking it up & ranting about this type of car being all bad rather than looking at the cause they just blame the effect.
dmsims said:
How long would it have taken you to verify that fatuous "fact", all those Diesel CR-V sellers on Autotrader are going to be disappointed
Not really sure what you are getting at. The 1997-2001 Gen. C-RV wasn’t sold with a diesel.Edited by dmsims on Monday 19th November 17:33
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CR-V
300bhp/ton said:
dmsims said:
How long would it have taken you to verify that fatuous "fact", all those Diesel CR-V sellers on Autotrader are going to be disappointed
Not really sure what you are getting at. The 1997-2001 Gen. C-RV wasn’t sold with a diesel.Edited by dmsims on Monday 19th November 17:33
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CR-V
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