Discussion
Want an SUV when my car dies.
Thinking about one of the cheaper range rovers or a volvo XC90 (Like the look)
But they are all only 2 litre engines.
(Older generations of the XC90 offered bigger)
I will only use it for general driving, however I may need to tow a caravan at some point.
Are the modern engines efficient enough to have sufficient grunt in 2 litres or should I look at something like a Q7 with a 3 litre engine?
Thoughts please ta
Thinking about one of the cheaper range rovers or a volvo XC90 (Like the look)
But they are all only 2 litre engines.
(Older generations of the XC90 offered bigger)
I will only use it for general driving, however I may need to tow a caravan at some point.
Are the modern engines efficient enough to have sufficient grunt in 2 litres or should I look at something like a Q7 with a 3 litre engine?
Thoughts please ta
petrol or diesel?
2 litre diesel should be all the engine you need for your uses
2 litre petrol vs weight of an SUV could be less attractive. I am not aware of any turbo petrols that might give a bit more grunt for towing I just think the diesel is the better tool for this sort of work.
2 litre diesel should be all the engine you need for your uses
2 litre petrol vs weight of an SUV could be less attractive. I am not aware of any turbo petrols that might give a bit more grunt for towing I just think the diesel is the better tool for this sort of work.
I’ve got no issues with the performance of our newish xc90. It’s plenty fast enough for what it’s used for (family duties) and will sit / accelerate at normal motorway speeds fine. Runs out of puff at much above 90ish but then i don’t need it to go that fast.
Only gripe is it sounds a bit rough a lower speeds if you boot it but I drive round that. Otherwise the car is fantastic (interior/looks/quality)
Only gripe is it sounds a bit rough a lower speeds if you boot it but I drive round that. Otherwise the car is fantastic (interior/looks/quality)
As above, pay more attention to the power and torque figures rather than the displacement. Many of the current 4 cylinder diesels in these things produce more power and torque than the older 5 and 6 cylinder engines they replaced. The downside is they are usually pretty rough so can make a premium product feel a bit crap.
I have a Disco5 with the 2.0D 237bhp engine.
I regularly tow 2.5 tonnes, and even plus family and luggage, the powertrain is more than enough. Plenty of torque, even at 1,500 rpm. Only slight negative is the clutch/gearbox often uses 2,200 ish rpm pulling away with all that weight, and the larger sixes do sound nicer in that scenario - only relevant pulling away from a standstill.
Martin.
I regularly tow 2.5 tonnes, and even plus family and luggage, the powertrain is more than enough. Plenty of torque, even at 1,500 rpm. Only slight negative is the clutch/gearbox often uses 2,200 ish rpm pulling away with all that weight, and the larger sixes do sound nicer in that scenario - only relevant pulling away from a standstill.
Martin.
Martin30 said:
I have a Disco5 with the 2.0D 237bhp engine.
I regularly tow 2.5 tonnes, and even plus family and luggage, the powertrain is more than enough. Plenty of torque, even at 1,500 rpm. Only slight negative is the clutch/gearbox often uses 2,200 ish rpm pulling away with all that weight, and the larger sixes do sound nicer in that scenario - only relevant pulling away from a standstill.
Martin.
Really? My best friend bought one of these a couple of months back (he had a Hilux previously). He comes and gets my ancient TD5 when he wants to tow his 2-horse box. He regrets getting rid of the Hilux.I regularly tow 2.5 tonnes, and even plus family and luggage, the powertrain is more than enough. Plenty of torque, even at 1,500 rpm. Only slight negative is the clutch/gearbox often uses 2,200 ish rpm pulling away with all that weight, and the larger sixes do sound nicer in that scenario - only relevant pulling away from a standstill.
Martin.
underphil said:
Spending £40-£50K on a car with a 4 cylinder diesel seems bizarre to me!
I will admit that I've pretty much always been in this camp, and I only considered the 3.0 V6 diesel when I was looking to buy the Mercedes GLC. However this type of car is(for me) very boring to drive and there isn't any reward/satisfaction from going quickly. So I do now think that the 4 cylinder diesel is probably really all you need. I guess the 3 litre diesel engine does give a better premium feel though(more smooth/a bit quieter). Although I'd still argue that it is hard to get any diesel engine to really feel premium. A V8 petrol is really the only way to achieve a proper premium feeling engine imo.
Power is power at the end of the day.
I test drove a GLC250 petrol (actually a loaner while my GL was in for servicing) and my wife has GLC350 diesel.
The big diesel has only about 30 more bhp than the lightweight petrol. The 250 was quite light and lovely and chuckable into corners but the diesel is less frenetic, out drags the 250 and feels more premium.
Oddly enough, the 350 goes further on a litre of juice but you don't have to press it quite as hard to go anywhere. The 250 is no slouch though - it has a turbo 2-litre 4-cyl with well over 200bhp.
I have the same diesel engine as my wife in my GL but with about 700Kg more, it drives like a truck. I'll give serious consideration to a petrol one next time but even with the worldwide hatred of diesels, bigger trucks do suit diesels, and big diesels at that. If I never plan to tow again, I might go for a GL63 but I'd never choose a 4-cyl engine for something X5 / ML sized or bigger. Chap at work has one of those new Q7-sized Skodas with a 1.4 4-cyl turbo. I have my doubt about that.
But for the smaller SUVs, yes why not go for a 2-litre? My wife will likely pick a petrol GLC next time - there just weren't any around for sale at the time we bought. She would be happy with the 2-litre 4-cyl too (she liked my loaner) but if we can afford it, I'll steer her into a 43.
I test drove a GLC250 petrol (actually a loaner while my GL was in for servicing) and my wife has GLC350 diesel.
The big diesel has only about 30 more bhp than the lightweight petrol. The 250 was quite light and lovely and chuckable into corners but the diesel is less frenetic, out drags the 250 and feels more premium.
Oddly enough, the 350 goes further on a litre of juice but you don't have to press it quite as hard to go anywhere. The 250 is no slouch though - it has a turbo 2-litre 4-cyl with well over 200bhp.
I have the same diesel engine as my wife in my GL but with about 700Kg more, it drives like a truck. I'll give serious consideration to a petrol one next time but even with the worldwide hatred of diesels, bigger trucks do suit diesels, and big diesels at that. If I never plan to tow again, I might go for a GL63 but I'd never choose a 4-cyl engine for something X5 / ML sized or bigger. Chap at work has one of those new Q7-sized Skodas with a 1.4 4-cyl turbo. I have my doubt about that.
But for the smaller SUVs, yes why not go for a 2-litre? My wife will likely pick a petrol GLC next time - there just weren't any around for sale at the time we bought. She would be happy with the 2-litre 4-cyl too (she liked my loaner) but if we can afford it, I'll steer her into a 43.
Watchman said:
Power is power at the end of the day.
I test drove a GLC250 petrol (actually a loaner while my GL was in for servicing) and my wife has GLC350 diesel.
The big diesel has only about 30 more bhp than the lightweight petrol. The 250 was quite light and lovely and chuckable into corners but the diesel is less frenetic, out drags the 250 and feels more premium.
I was a little disappointed with the power of the GLC350d at only 250bhp from a 3 litre(my 640d had 310bhp from the same size engine). It does feel nice and torquey though and it pretty much matches the 640d for torque. I test drove a GLC250 petrol (actually a loaner while my GL was in for servicing) and my wife has GLC350 diesel.
The big diesel has only about 30 more bhp than the lightweight petrol. The 250 was quite light and lovely and chuckable into corners but the diesel is less frenetic, out drags the 250 and feels more premium.
Mercedes have upped the power now for the 3 litre diesel engine(now a straight six), so I'd like to try that. The GLC350d is quite a rare model now(you can't buy a one new currently). I do wonder if it will get the new straight six or whether Mercedes just won't bother offering the GLC in 350d form.
I read they were moving back to a straight 6. I think it's a good thing. I quite like the OM642 implementation - I mean all the cars we've had with it have been great dragsters up hills with full loads etc - but it's not a fundamentally nice design, needing a balancer shaft to overcome the harmonics associated with the angle they chose for the V.
It's also torquey, yes but not powerful enough, as you point out. And power is all that counts especially now they mate them to 9-speed gearboxes (a gearbox being a torque-multiplier).
It's also torquey, yes but not powerful enough, as you point out. And power is all that counts especially now they mate them to 9-speed gearboxes (a gearbox being a torque-multiplier).
sunbeam alpine said:
Really? My best friend bought one of these a couple of months back (he had a Hilux previously). He comes and gets my ancient TD5 when he wants to tow his 2-horse box. He regrets getting rid of the Hilux.
Yep, I have never found the powertrain wanting ('quality' of engine noise aside), even loaded with people and the 2.5 tons. I have never driven a TD5, but the Disco5 2.0 has 74% more power, and 37% more torque according to my basic googling. That, combined with all the trailer stability electronics on the modern stuff should make the modern one a much better tow car.Personally, I chose the 2.0 over the 3.0 because I do 30k miles a year in it, and thought I would appreciate the slightly better economy more than I would use the slightly more torque of the bigger engine.
I also agree that initially, my perception was that 2.0 would never be enough capacity in a big car like the Discovery. But then I started to think that 237bhp is 15% more than you got with a Sierra Cosworth, and I used to think that was madness levels of power in my youth. Modern diesel powertrains are amazing, government witch hunts notwithstanding.
Martin.
KAgantua said:
Are the modern engines efficient enough to have sufficient grunt in 2 litres....
Moving down a bit in size daughter has a new SEAT Ateca with a 3 cyl 1 litre petrol 115PS/200Nm engine. I was a bit horrified at first, but it goes perfectly adequately. I haven't driven it much but she's very happy with it.Wife has one of the last of the previous Tiguans - 2 litre diesel, 150PS/340NM with DSG & 4Motion. That feels 'leisurely' but again is fine in every day use. We live in a semi-rural area with fast single carriageway A roads after the first time I went for an overtake that didn't work out I've adjusted my driving to better suit the car's capability.
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