Why the PH hatred for PCP?

[john41901]

Butter Face said:

roadsmash said:

I’ve decided this thread is no longer worth my time,

The way I look at it is that it really doesn't matter what some people on the internet think about it or how people buy their cars.

I'll keep on selling cars on finance and cars for cash and the world keeps on spinning. If some people are really that bothered by it, best to let them crack on really

Slow day in the showrooms, gentlemen ?

[anonymous-user]

Wow that all kicked off! So in summary.

1)Whilst £10k is chump change to most powerfully built directors, a lot of people don't have that much money sitting around.
2)Their choice is to either buy a cheap car they can afford, or get finance and buy something nicer.
3)Most people don't care about other people's finances, but some people get upset that these people are driving cars they (in their opinion) shouldn't have.
4)Signing up for a PCP is the most convenient way of financing a car, but probably not the cheapest in the long run.
5)Most of the people who finance cars don't run through the figures to the nearest penny, they are only interested in the monthly cost.
6)Some people who finance cars have the cash to pay for it they just don't want to tie this money up in a depreciating asset.

And to conclude, whether someone drives a shed or a brand new car you have no idea of his financial situation. There are people driving brand new cars who can't afford to put any fuel in until payday, and there are people driving sheds with £100k in the bank.

[Deep Thought]

TheStigsWeeBrother said:

Deep Thought said:

TheStigsWeeBrother - if you were looking a prime example of the "sneering" comments that have been mentioned where people try to drag up your past in a negative light to undermine you, av185 has a textbook example for you...

I posted this morning that i sold Austin Rovers back in '88/89 on the car brand loyalty thread. Look how hes attempted to twist that round

av185 said:

Be interesting to hear one of the pcp ambassadors (DTs or Brookings) view on this especially since DTs financial acumen was weened off the great British Leyland school of economics selling hearing aid beige Rovers back in the day.

I thought you already said it on this thread?

WHOLLY missing the point there - look at the sneering comment he turned it in to.

[Deep Thought]

av185 said:

Get over yourself ffs!

This is no more sneering than you implying I considered profit to be a dirty word knowing full well I run several profitable businesses.

It was a genuine question btw.

Living beyond ones means?

I asked if you considered a profit a dirty word because you seemed to be implying that car salesmen making a profit was a problem.

I've already answered your question in my next post down. Keep up at the back

[Deep Thought]

TheStigsWeeBrother said:

Brooking10 said:

TheStigsWeeBrother said:

I thought you already said it on this thread?

Point missed

Don’t most people use what people post to try and win the argument?

That isnt what i posted though is it? It was turned around to put a very negative spin on it and presented in a sneering way.

Cant believe you were on a crusade about sneering comments three pages back, but now you're an apologist for it.

Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 18th January 12:12

[TheStigsWeeBrother]

Deep Thought said:

TheStigsWeeBrother said:

Deep Thought said:

TheStigsWeeBrother - if you were looking a prime example of the "sneering" comments that have been mentioned where people try to drag up your past in a negative light to undermine you, av185 has a textbook example for you...

I posted this morning that i sold Austin Rovers back in '88/89 on the car brand loyalty thread. Look how hes attempted to twist that round

av185 said:

Be interesting to hear one of the pcp ambassadors (DTs or Brookings) view on this especially since DTs financial acumen was weened off the great British Leyland school of economics selling hearing aid beige Rovers back in the day.

I thought you already said it on this thread?

WHOLLY missing the point there - look at the sneering comment he turned it in to.

Pot ,kettle and black.

[av185]

Brooking10 said:

I’ve repeatedly said by the way that PCP is an expensive way to buy a car. It can be for many the most accessible way to run a car, in some cases it can occasionally be a cost effective way to run a car.

Edited by Brooking10 on Friday 18th January 11:58

I do not recall you ever saying that pcp IS categorically an expensive way to run a car. Must have missed that.

And if that is the case, spoken from the horses mouth then I will rest mine, for now.

Out of interest in what proportion of actual signed up pcp cases do you think it is a cost effective way of running a car?

[Butter Face]

john41901 said:

Butter Face said:

roadsmash said:

I’ve decided this thread is no longer worth my time,

The way I look at it is that it really doesn't matter what some people on the internet think about it or how people buy their cars.

I'll keep on selling cars on finance and cars for cash and the world keeps on spinning. If some people are really that bothered by it, best to let them crack on really

Slow day in the showrooms, gentlemen ?

Jan target is done, just a bit of stock to photo but it's raining.

How's your day?

[anonymous-user]

av185 said:

Brooking10 said:

I’ve repeatedly said by the way that PCP is an expensive way to buy a car. It can be for many the most accessible way to run a car, in some cases it can occasionally be a cost effective way to run a car.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 18th January 11:58

I do not recall you ever saying that pcp IS categorically an expensive way to run a car. Must have missed that.

And if that is the case, spoken from the horses mouth then I will rest mine, for now.

Out of interest in what proportion of actual signed up pcp cases do you think it is a cost effective way of running a car?

You need to up your stalking game

That’s very hard to quantify and depends on lots of variables including the ability/willingness of the vendor to offer identical base unit cost. but assuming you mean comparison of the delta vs straight cash then I reckon overall sub 10%

Number goes up I suspect if you factor in those who take out and then clear for incentives.

I don’t subscribe to the POV that pcp is a great way to make money which generates profit elsewhere.

But I have no issue though with people paying a premium for the ability to access or deploy cash elsewhere.

I’m also quite comfortable that the world is moving to a subscription model whether people of our age like it or not.

I don’t believe people should overextend themselves.

I do think that mis-selling and manipulation of numbers should be clamped down upon

I do know that PCP is not a systemic risk to the economy.

That’s a fairly exhaustive response which covers views I have expressed many times before

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 18th January 12:46

[Drew106]

Joey Deacon said:

Wow that all kicked off! So in summary.

1)Whilst £10k is chump change to most powerfully built directors, a lot of people don't have that much money sitting around.
2)Their choice is to either buy a cheap car they can afford, or get finance and buy something nicer.
3)Most people don't care about other people's finances, but some people get upset that these people are driving cars they (in their opinion) shouldn't have.
4)Signing up for a PCP is the most convenient way of financing a car, but probably not the cheapest in the long run.
5)Most of the people who finance cars don't run through the figures to the nearest penny, they are only interested in the monthly cost.
6)Some people who finance cars have the cash to pay for it they just don't want to tie this money up in a depreciating asset.

And to conclude, whether someone drives a shed or a brand new car you have no idea of his financial situation. There are people driving brand new cars who can't afford to put any fuel in until payday, and there are people driving sheds with £100k in the bank.

Good sum up of a pretty contentious subject.

I think your last sentence is the real crux of the matter. This winds up a lot of people.

I can't understand why someone would be wound up by how another chooses to spend their money. I think they're more annoyed that other people think Mr New BMW is doing better than them!

Btw I drive a 10 year crappy hatchback shed. Costs nothing to run. Saving so that I don't need a massive mortgage. When I've finished the move I might just go out a PCP or lease a Mustang or an M4, just for the craic! *

* I say that, but realy I'm much too sensible... I'd end up crunching the numbers and buying something cheaper and probably just as much fun!

[john41901]

Drew106 said:

Good sum up of a pretty contentious subject.

I think your last sentence is the real crux of the matter. This winds up a lot of people.

I can't understand why someone would be wound up by how another chooses to spend their money. I think they're more annoyed that other people think Mr New BMW is doing better than them!

Btw I drive a 10 year crappy hatchback shed. Costs nothing to run. Saving so that I don't need a massive mortgage. When I've finished the move I might just go out a PCP or lease a Mustang or an M4, just for the craic! *

* I say that, but realy I'm much too sensible... I'd end up crunching the numbers and buying something cheaper and probably just as much fun!

It actually gets to the point now where I'd rather not drive around in a brand new M4 for example because I'd look like a financially illiterate moron for (a) probably signing my life away on a PCP scheme; and (b) shredding loads of cash in first year depreciation.

Sure some people say who gives a fk about what others think, but in other cases one has to be just a little careful about the image they project.

[av185]

Drew106 said:

Btw I drive a 10 year crappy hatchback shed. Costs nothing to run. Saving so that I don't need a massive mortgage. When I've finished the move I might just go out a PCP or lease a Mustang or an M4[/small]

Many still quote the old chestnut 'wealth whispers money shouts' cliche but it certainly holds true for lots of things in life I find.

Talking of the M3/M4/Pcp/ finance/ depreciation scenarios I distinctly remember buying a barely run in repossessed sub 500 mile 2 month old mint and high spec e46 M3 cab in carbon black in December 2006 from the finance company through BCA otr list was £56k it was knocked down for £33k.

No doubt a bitter pill financially for both the finance company and the unfortunate previous 'owner' who for whatever reason had clearly taken on more than they could afford.

Similar story today with Porsche finance who have reasonably well stocked monthly sales at BCA Nottingham.

Not to mention the hundreds of VWFS snatchback vehicles (119 Golf Rs the pcpers dream car lol alone were listed last week in BCA auctions).

Such is life.

[Sten.]

john41901 said:

I'd rather not drive around in a brand new M4 for example because I'd look like a financially illiterate moron

Fantastic. This thread just continues to deliver

[jimPH]

Drew106 said:

Joey Deacon said:

3)Most people don't care about other people's finances, but some people get upset that these people are driving cars they (in their opinion) shouldn't have.


6)Some people who finance cars have the cash to pay for it they just don't want to tie this money up in a depreciating asset.

I can't understand why someone would be wound up by how another chooses to spend their money. I think they're more annoyed that other people think Mr New BMW is doing better than them!

Turning that on its head. I hear the same line trotted out by people PCPing new cars who seem to think everyone is jealous of them. Or that anyone not on PCP is some kind of financial illiterate that's missing out.

We've heard from Brooking10 (who appears to be the kingpin of the PH finance fraternity), that PCPing a car to implement some baller investment strategy is not a scheme he agrees with, so is likely just sales rhetoric that is believed and repeated. If people want to be taken seriously, they would do better by not repeating it.

[Deep Thought]

jimPH said:

Turning that on its head. I hear the same line trotted out by people PCPing new cars who seem to think everyone is jealous of them. Or that anyone not on PCP is some kind of financial illiterate that's missing out.

Well if you're associating with people who are PCPing and are telling you they think other people are jealous of them because of their new cars, then i can understand your skewed view. I dont recall anyone ever saying it to me or read it on here by someone with a PCP deal.

As i've said before, in this day and age where 95% of new cars sold are sold on some sort of finance, whos really going to be jealous of a neighbour who rocks up in some new Audi. Is anyone going to be in awe in the belief that they whacked down £40,000 of their own hard earned to do it, or are they going to think they've got it on a £399 a month deal? Because i would say 99/100 its the latter.

Any car i've ever PCP'd (three times in 30 years) i've done so because the car impresses me, not because i think it will impress other people. Who knows, maybe most people feel the same when they PCP?

jimPH said:

We've heard from Brooking10 (who appears to be the kingpin of the PH finance fraternity), that PCPing a car to implement some baller investment strategy is not a scheme he agrees with, so is likely just sales rhetoric that is believed and repeated. If people want to be taken seriously, they would do better by not repeating it.

"Sometimes PCP deals can work out better than buying the same car over the same timeframe". A lot of the time they dont. Are you that paranoid that you think thats just a smokescreen for our true aim of World Domination for PCP?

Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 18th January 16:17

Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 18th January 16:18

Edited by Deep Thought on Friday 18th January 16:27

[anonymous-user]

av185 said:

Not to mention the hundreds of VWFS snatchback vehicles (119 Golf Rs the pcpers dream car lol alone were listed last week in BCA auctions).

Didn't they just put them in a field with all the other returned lease ones? You know, because they want to keep up residuals by not flooding the market with them?

Or better still just crush them to make sure?

[Carrot]

Sten. said:

john41901 said:

I'd rather not drive around in a brand new M4 for example because I'd look like a financially illiterate moron

Fantastic. This thread just continues to deliver

Just amazing. I didn't think that people in the real world actually thought like this, it is almost like a mental illness! Financial stalking...

[anonymous-user]

jimPH said:

We've heard from Brooking10 (who appears to be the kingpin of the PH finance fraternity), that PCPing a car to implement some baller investment strategy is not a scheme he agrees with, so is likely just sales rhetoric that is believed and repeated. If people want to be taken seriously, they would do better by not repeating it.

He really isn’t.

And has neither qualification nor desire to be

Just interested in what drives those who cannot see anything other than black or white, dismiss whole swathes of society, sometimes make ludicrous assertions about the underlying economics and never, ever offer any constructive alternative to the prevailing industry model.

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 18th January 17:06

[av185]

Joey Deacon said:

av185 said:

Not to mention the hundreds of VWFS snatchback vehicles (119 Golf Rs the pcpers dream car lol alone were listed last week in BCA auctions).

Didn't they just put them in a field with all the other returned lease ones? You know, because they want to keep up residuals by not flooding the market with them?

Or better still just crush them to make sure?

Yep at least if they crushed them they would no longer be the vehicle of choice for scrotes to nick.

Residuals of Golf Rs have actually held up remarkably well despite the excess supply of even poverty spec examples across the market.

[av185]

Brooking10 said:

I’m also quite comfortable that the world is moving to a subscription model whether people of our age like it or not.

Edited by Brooking10 on Friday 18th January 12:46

Haha re age......speak for yourself!!

I can see the many advantages to consumers in general as we inevitably move to the subscriptive economics scenario giving much greater freedom of choice across larger product ranges and can also see how pcp type financing at al would lend themselves well to this model of car 'buying.'

We all know the huge growth in finance and pcps as a way to access car 'ownership' has been fundamentally driven by an extended period of historically low interest rates which undeniably has allowed many pcpers who could not have normally afforded these deals on higher interest rates to essentially get a better deal or a better car or one that they could not truly afford, it has to be said.

How do you see this panning out when and not if interest rates inevitably rise and what could possibly go wrong with the exsting system model?