Why the PH hatred for PCP?

[InitialDave]

jimPH said:

Would you agree that anyone justifying their buying decision against a payment method they are unable to use (but not everyone), are not being honest with their decision. Moreover it demonstrates the effectiveness of the sales patter they've believed. Because the new car buying scenario crops up so often if fed up of hearing it. The fact is, you are only saving money if it costs you less than you were paying before. Not against what you might have paid. It's a good sales tactic though, I'll give them that.

If they're right or wrong, they'd be right or wrong irrespective of whether they're in a position to buy outright.

"But you don't have the cash to buy it outright" is not a rebuttal of "the PCP worked out cheaper than buying outright".

And maybe they're comfortable enough that they can find a good PCP deal if they need one that this is why they don't have tens of thousands sitting around to buy a car, having decided to put it into other things instead.

I happen to think PCPs being cheaper than buying outright are more of a minority occurrence, but I think there's plenty that are cheap enough that people aren't going to get their knickers in a twist about it.

You can get a new car right now for £5k down and the rest on PCP, rather than needing to find the full £20k purchase price. The cost of doing so is an extra £1k. That sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

Oh, but it's costing you more? Oh, but you don't have £20k anyway, so you're not allowed to make the comparison? Oh, but you could have bought a used car for £5k?

Don't care.

[anonymous-user]

jimPH said:

Oh lordy. Here I am talking about the seats and your talking about the whole car. Please stick to the specific element I am discussing.

Will you agree that the majority of people cannot afford to buy outright. I agree that SOME people can. But MOST cannot. In the real world that is. Not PH fantasy Dreamland.

Would you agree that anyone justifying their buying decision against a payment method they are unable to use (but not everyone), are not being honest with their decision. Moreover it demonstrates the effectiveness of the sales patter they've believed. Because the new car buying scenario crops up so often if fed up of hearing it. The fact is, you are only saving money if it costs you less than you were paying before. Not against what you might have paid. It's a good sales tactic though, I'll give them that.

I think just about everybody accepts that the majority of people don’t have the cash at hand

I think everybody accepts that buying a car outright on pcp will usually cost more than paying cash

I think everybody accepts that the car industry created pcp to shift boxes

I think everybody accepts that car companies are not paragons of altruism

I think most people can accept that pcp has some positives which are entirely dependent on any one individual’s circumstances - affording accessibility is but one of those, it’s basic sales/marketing/Maslow’s hierarchy stuff

I don’t think the PH dreamland you have quoted exists other than in your own mind

I still don’t know what about this subject seems to cause you so much angst.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 23 January 10:51

[Deep Thought]

Brooking10 said:

jimPH said:

Oh lordy. Here I am talking about the seats and your talking about the whole car. Please stick to the specific element I am discussing.

Will you agree that the majority of people cannot afford to buy outright. I agree that SOME people can. But MOST cannot. In the real world that is. Not PH fantasy Dreamland.

Would you agree that anyone justifying their buying decision against a payment method they are unable to use (but not everyone), are not being honest with their decision. Moreover it demonstrates the effectiveness of the sales patter they've believed. Because the new car buying scenario crops up so often if fed up of hearing it. The fact is, you are only saving money if it costs you less than you were paying before. Not against what you might have paid. It's a good sales tactic though, I'll give them that.

I think just about everybody accepts that the majority of people don’t have the cash at hand

I think everybody accepts that buying a car outright on pcp will usually cost more than paying cash

I think everybody accepts that the car industry created pcp to shift boxes

I think everybody accepts that car companies are not paragons of altruism

I think most people can accept that pcp has some positives which are entirely dependent on any one individual’s circumstances - affording accessibility is but one of those, it’s basic sales/marketing/Maslow’s hierarchy stuff

I don’t think the PH dreamland you have quoted exists other than in your own mind

I still don’t know what this subject seems to cause you so much angst.

+1

[Carrot]

Deep Thought said:

Brooking10 said:

jimPH said:

Oh lordy. Here I am talking about the seats and your talking about the whole car. Please stick to the specific element I am discussing.

Will you agree that the majority of people cannot afford to buy outright. I agree that SOME people can. But MOST cannot. In the real world that is. Not PH fantasy Dreamland.

Would you agree that anyone justifying their buying decision against a payment method they are unable to use (but not everyone), are not being honest with their decision. Moreover it demonstrates the effectiveness of the sales patter they've believed. Because the new car buying scenario crops up so often if fed up of hearing it. The fact is, you are only saving money if it costs you less than you were paying before. Not against what you might have paid. It's a good sales tactic though, I'll give them that.

I think just about everybody accepts that the majority of people don’t have the cash at hand

I think everybody accepts that buying a car outright on pcp will usually cost more than paying cash

I think everybody accepts that the car industry created pcp to shift boxes

I think everybody accepts that car companies are not paragons of altruism

I think most people can accept that pcp has some positives which are entirely dependent on any one individual’s circumstances - affording accessibility is but one of those, it’s basic sales/marketing/Maslow’s hierarchy stuff

I don’t think the PH dreamland you have quoted exists other than in your own mind

I still don’t know what this subject seems to cause you so much angst.

+1

+2 and I still don’t know what this subject seems to cause you so much angst. is I think what most people are confused about.

[Deep Thought]

Carrot said:

+2 and I still don’t know what this subject seems to cause you so much angst. is I think what most people are confused about.

Thats the bit i dont get. I dont have a PCP deal. Havent done so for many years, I have no plans to ever use the product again, but not one fk do i give how other people finance their cars. And TBH it doesnt make my top 100 issues that i might have with the general public out there that might "outrage" me if i cared enough.

[TheStigsWeeBrother]

Deep Thought said:

Thats the bit i dont get. I dont have a PCP deal. Havent done so for many years, I have no plans to ever use the product again, but not one fk do i give how other people finance their cars. And TBH it doesnt make my top 100 issues that i might have with the general public out there that might "outrage" me if i cared enough.

“I have no plans to EVER use this product again” seems a very strange statement to make considering on every car finance thread you say that you research all the different ways which gives the cheapest overall cost.
Is there a specific reason for this U turn?
Why do you post so much on PCP specific threads and end up swearing and being abusive if you are not bothered?

[anonymous-user]

TheStigsWeeBrother said:

“I have no plans to EVER use this product again” seems a very strange statement to make considering on every car finance thread you say that you research all the different ways which gives the cheapest overall cost.
Is there a specific reason for this U turn?
Why do you post so much on PCP specific threads and end up swearing and being abusive if you are not bothered?

You're coming across as if you just want to antagonise certain folk now.

[Deep Thought]

TheStigsWeeBrother said:

Deep Thought said:

Thats the bit i dont get. I dont have a PCP deal. Havent done so for many years, I have no plans to ever use the product again, but not one fk do i give how other people finance their cars. And TBH it doesnt make my top 100 issues that i might have with the general public out there that might "outrage" me if i cared enough.

“I have no plans to EVER use this product again” seems a very strange statement to make considering on every car finance thread you say that you research all the different ways which gives the cheapest overall cost.
Is there a specific reason for this U turn?
Why do you post so much on PCP specific threads and end up swearing and being abusive if you are not bothered?

Its not a U turn.

Its down to what i believe my future requirements will be. My future needs look a lot like buying an older used car. Thats never going to be more expensive than a PCP deal. If i were planning on buying new again then yes by all means i'd look again at PCP and / or lease, cash and / or cheap loan.

The landscape for me looks a lot like being able to just have one car between me and my wife or having a second car to lie at the train station / airport.

I've already said my next car is likely to be a £500 Focus if i need a car at all.

I dont think i have ever said people MUST PCP their cars and its always the cheapest way to get ANY car?

[Deep Thought]

Brooking10 said:

TheStigsWeeBrother said:

“I have no plans to EVER use this product again” seems a very strange statement to make considering on every car finance thread you say that you research all the different ways which gives the cheapest overall cost.
Is there a specific reason for this U turn?
Why do you post so much on PCP specific threads and end up swearing and being abusive if you are not bothered?

You're coming across as if you just want to antagonise certain folk now.

Stigsweebrother being antagonistic? No! Never!

[tickedon]

Are we going to use the same logic for homes too? As who can purchase one of those outright?

I could buy a caravan outright and live in that. But I choose to have a mortgage instead.

[TheStigsWeeBrother]

Brooking10 said:

You're coming across as if you just want to antagonise certain folk now.

Really, that’s what you think is antagonising,but “go fk yourselves is acceptable?

[carparkno1]

I love my new car. I mean I just bloody love it. It's so shiny and nice. It's a BMW as well. We also live on a new build, although we weren't the first owners!

I love our other car as well, we've had that since new and it's now 3 years old and fully paid off.

I mean don't get me wrong me and the family have to sleep in them and eat tins of cold beans, but ooooooh they are shiny.

[jimPH]

Brooking10 said:

You're coming across as if you just want to antagonise certain folk now.

I don't know how many times I need to say this, but just posting an opposing view doesn't mean I have an issue or it causes me angst. I have no issue with how others spend their money. It doesn't matter how many times I write this, after every point you concede, this is your default position.

There are plenty of people who are posting about PCP saving them money, yet we seem to have come to an agreement that PCP doesn't save people money, so we appear to be making progress. Removing denial is the first step after all.

[jimPH]

tickedon said:

Are we going to use the same logic for homes too? As who can purchase one of those outright?

I could buy a caravan outright and live in that. But I choose to have a mortgage instead.

Can you PCP houses?

Maybe we should all PCP our clothes, rent what depreciates right?

[anonymous-user]

jimPH said:

Brooking10 said:

You're coming across as if you just want to antagonise certain folk now.

I don't know how many times I need to say this, but just posting an opposing view doesn't mean I have an issue or it causes me angst. I have no issue with how others spend their money. It doesn't matter how many times I write this, after every point you concede, this is your default position.

There are plenty of people who are posting about PCP saving them money, yet we seem to have come to an agreement that PCP doesn't save people money, so we appear to be making progress. Removing denial is the first step after all.

You realise the quote you posted wasn’t aimed at you ?

The fact that most likely PCP doesn’t save money as an outright ownership model is definitely one thing you and I agree on and have never had variance of opinion about.

What are we making progress toward ? Some kind of arbitrary position of your own making ?

Who has been in denial over what ?

You keep looking at this as a “for or against” debate which as has been posted several times it isn’t. One can’t concede points that one agrees with Jim.

You seem to want to win an argument that only has protagonists on one side.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 23 January 13:57

[Deep Thought]

TheStigsWeeBrother said:

Brooking10 said:

You're coming across as if you just want to antagonise certain folk now.

Really, that’s what you think is antagonising,but “go fk yourselves is acceptable?

No, no. I said "yourself" not yourselves. It was specifically at you.

Edited by Deep Thought on Wednesday 23 January 15:04

[anonymous-user]

jimPH said:

Can you PCP houses?

Well you can defer the capital element and only service the interest should you wish to do so .....

[Deep Thought]

Brooking10 said:

jimPH said:

Brooking10 said:

You're coming across as if you just want to antagonise certain folk now.

I don't know how many times I need to say this, but just posting an opposing view doesn't mean I have an issue or it causes me angst. I have no issue with how others spend their money. It doesn't matter how many times I write this, after every point you concede, this is your default position.

There are plenty of people who are posting about PCP saving them money, yet we seem to have come to an agreement that PCP doesn't save people money, so we appear to be making progress. Removing denial is the first step after all.

You realise the quote you posted wasn’t aimed at you ?

Whats the old saying - if you throw a stone in to a pack of dogs, the one that yelps is the one that was hit?

[TheStigsWeeBrother]

Deep Thought said:

TheStigsWeeBrother said:

Brooking10 said:

You're coming across as if you just want to antagonise certain folk now.

Really, that’s what you think is antagonising,but “go fk yourselves is acceptable?

No, no. I said "yourself" not yourselves. It was specifically at you.

Edited by Deep Thought on Wednesday 23 January 15:04

You must have got a real kicking getting out of that pcp on the Merc to make you so bitter.

[anonymous-user]

TheStigsWeeBrother said:

Deep Thought said:

TheStigsWeeBrother said:

Brooking10 said:

You're coming across as if you just want to antagonise certain folk now.

Really, that’s what you think is antagonising,but “go fk yourselves is acceptable?

No, no. I said "yourself" not yourselves. It was specifically at you.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 23 January 15:04

You must have got a real kicking getting out of that pcp on the Merc to make you so bitter.

Come on, rather than pursuing a wind up agenda against DT just play nice and stop being obnoxious on purpose.