Why the PH hatred for PCP?
Discussion
av185 said:
Welshbeef said:
What I personally do not get is how so many young kids teenagers are running new S3/Golf Rs M140i’s etc it’s in my view impossible especially given the wages apparently that age group on average earn.
When I grew up I had crap cars worthless in value and frankly everyone else my age group did too. Something has changed in that time frame
Many live at their parents home for free.When I grew up I had crap cars worthless in value and frankly everyone else my age group did too. Something has changed in that time frame
Including free meals washing and ironing etc etc.
Free everything so our you go and get a S3/Golf R - and I’d wager Mum and Dad are not running about in brand new car of their choice no. They are finding the lifestyle of the kid.
I personally couldn't care less how people fund their cars, although the phenomenal amount of personal debt that people are willing to take on was a contributing factor towards the last crash, which cost us all and for which we are all still paying. I would not personally go for a PCP agreement and this is where I agree with Gordon to some extent. I imagine that car salespeople love PCP schemes because the same customers trot through their doors every two or three years, many to stay in the same cycle over and over again (I have no statistical information to support this, but PCP schemes seem very popular and cars are often now not advertised by price, but by monthly payments). By extension, if car salespeople love them, they are unlikely to be the best available option for the customer. Regardless of how the financials work, I instinctively do not want to be locked in to anything if I can avoid it. When I needed to use finance, I used bank loans, which were usually competitive and were not attached to the car in any way. This gave me the freedom to keep or sell a car, or to upgrade or downgrade a car at any time. It's largely a psychological thing and perhaps, to some extent, a generational thing.
That’s not entirely true is it.
The last crash was caused by lax regulation NINJA loans and then selling packaged loans which were junk status as AAA.
People buy what they want and fund it how they want to - clearly they are constrained by the banks / finance houses affordability tests.
Agreed about the no screen price any more it’s instead pcm and they also leave off the downpayment too.
The last crash was caused by lax regulation NINJA loans and then selling packaged loans which were junk status as AAA.
People buy what they want and fund it how they want to - clearly they are constrained by the banks / finance houses affordability tests.
Agreed about the no screen price any more it’s instead pcm and they also leave off the downpayment too.
lornemalvo said:
I personally couldn't care less how people fund their cars, although the phenomenal amount of personal debt that people are willing to take on was a contributing factor towards the last crash, which cost us all and for which we are all still paying. I would not personally go for a PCP agreement and this is where I agree with Gordon to some extent. I imagine that car salespeople love PCP schemes because the same customers trot through their doors every two or three years, many to stay in the same cycle over and over again (I have no statistical information to support this, but PCP schemes seem very popular and cars are often now not advertised by price, but by monthly payments). By extension, if car salespeople love them, they are unlikely to be the best available option for the customer. Regardless of how the financials work, I instinctively do not want to be locked in to anything if I can avoid it. When I needed to use finance, I used bank loans, which were usually competitive and were not attached to the car in any way. This gave me the freedom to keep or sell a car, or to upgrade or downgrade a car at any time. It's largely a psychological thing and perhaps, to some extent, a generational thing.
There’s some truth in that. One advantage of PCP tho is the ability to return the car with no further liability. The depreciation risk lies with the finance company. Gordon_Roslin said:
Im not jealous 'that people have what I have without waiting', because they don't. I have a property with multiple paid off cars on it, they're paying hundreds a month to rent something and pretend to be successful.
This is like a parallel universe where doing what the dealer wants is somehow genius and anyone who disagrees is just 'bitter'.
You enjoy telling yourselves that you're winning by doing PCPs and completely misrepresenting my points, well done. Classic millenial behaviour- moaning about how hard the system is without being willing to put the work in and not even having the intelligence to realise how wrong you are, which is particularly ironic as you ridicule those who actually speak sense that you can't comprehend.
To put it simply: dealers want you to PCP as it benefits them. If you want to do it fine but don't pretend you are financial heroes for spending £17,000 to borrow a 3 series for 3 years.
You’re incredibly bitter. So many generalisations and assumptions in one post.This is like a parallel universe where doing what the dealer wants is somehow genius and anyone who disagrees is just 'bitter'.
You enjoy telling yourselves that you're winning by doing PCPs and completely misrepresenting my points, well done. Classic millenial behaviour- moaning about how hard the system is without being willing to put the work in and not even having the intelligence to realise how wrong you are, which is particularly ironic as you ridicule those who actually speak sense that you can't comprehend.
To put it simply: dealers want you to PCP as it benefits them. If you want to do it fine but don't pretend you are financial heroes for spending £17,000 to borrow a 3 series for 3 years.
bad company said:
There’s some truth in that. One advantage of PCP tho is the ability to return the car with no further liability. The depreciation risk lies with the finance company.
Another advantage is no part exchange or selling it privately. A known total cost. Deposit + monthly paymentsxnumber of months.
You also know what they will offer you 100% risk free GFV. As such be it a brand new car or used you can PCP and know the worst case cost to you.
Whereas by it for cash/bank loan your guessing its value or part x value, you may “win” as in beat the overall cost of the PCP or not - I’d wager those who had PCPs during the financial crisis were LOL all the way to the bank had they bought it another way those individuals would have lost a boat load.
PCP gives you an insurance policy - that’s worth something.
And those suggesting you should buy a £400 car instead I simply do not comprehend that challenge/logic in the debate.
Gordon_Roslin said:
Im not jealous 'that people have what I have without waiting', because they don't. I have a property with multiple paid off cars on it, they're paying hundreds a month to rent something and pretend to be successful.
Who are they pretending to? You? I've never seen anyone pretend to be successful just because they've a monthly payment on a car.Gordon_Roslin said:
This is like a parallel universe where doing what the dealer wants is somehow genius and anyone who disagrees is just 'bitter'.
You enjoy telling yourselves that you're winning by doing PCPs and completely misrepresenting my points, well done. Classic millenial behaviour- moaning about how hard the system is without being willing to put the work in and not even having the intelligence to realise how wrong you are, which is particularly ironic as you ridicule those who actually speak sense that you can't comprehend.
Who on here who has used PCP successfully also moans about how hard the system is?You enjoy telling yourselves that you're winning by doing PCPs and completely misrepresenting my points, well done. Classic millenial behaviour- moaning about how hard the system is without being willing to put the work in and not even having the intelligence to realise how wrong you are, which is particularly ironic as you ridicule those who actually speak sense that you can't comprehend.
No-one has any issue with you chosing to buy with cash - its genuinely just the absolute vitriol and venomousness you put in to "hating" PCP deals. Why do you care if some bloke down the road from you or a complete stranger on the internet has blown his brains out to PCP some Audi or BMW or whatever?
bad company said:
There’s some truth in that. One advantage of PCP tho is the ability to return the car with no further liability.
Apart from being held over a barrel for the grossly inflated cost for 'cosmetic' repairs such as wheel scuffs etc.Generally less of an issue if trading the car.
bad company said:
Welshbeef said:
And those suggesting you should buy a £400 car instead I simply do not comprehend that challenge/logic in the debate.
Gordon’s very welcome to his £400 car. I’ll take a nice shiny new one, my own spec every 3 years. 
av185 said:
bad company said:
There’s some truth in that. One advantage of PCP tho is the ability to return the car with no further liability.
Apart from being held over a barrel for the grossly inflated cost for 'cosmetic' repairs such as wheel scuffs etc.Generally less of an issue if trading the car.
And just as much an issue if trading it - the dealer will just devalue your car accordingly.
"all four alloys scuffed? Dont worry about it - we'll pay for it ourselves" - said no car dealer ever.
av185 said:
bad company said:
There’s some truth in that. One advantage of PCP tho is the ability to return the car with no further liability.
Apart from being held over a barrel for the grossly inflated cost for 'cosmetic' repairs such as wheel scuffs etc.Generally less of an issue if trading the car.
I personally couldn't care less how people fund their cars, although the phenomenal amount of personal debt that people are willing to take on was a contributing factor towards the last crash, which cost us all and for which we are all still paying. I would not personally go for a PCP agreement and this is where I agree with Gordon to some extent. I imagine that car salespeople love PCP schemes because the same customers trot through their doors every two or three years, many to stay in the same cycle over and over again (I have no statistical information to support this, but PCP schemes seem very popular and cars are often now not advertised by price, but by monthly payments). By extension, if car salespeople love them, they are unlikely to be the best available option for the customer. Regardless of how the financials work, I instinctively do not want to be locked in to anything if I can avoid it. When I needed to use finance, I used bank loans, which were usually competitive and were not attached to the car in any way. This gave me the freedom to keep or sell a car, or to upgrade or downgrade a car at any time. It's largely a psychological thing and perhaps, to some extent, a generational thing.
av185 said:
Deep Thought said:
And just as much an issue if trading it - the dealer will just devalue your car accordingly.
.
Not a given..
Maybe. Maybe not.
Same with scuffs, scratches, dings.
And a moot point anyway, as you can simply just trade it in anyway then if in doubt RE: charges.
lornemalvo said:
I personally couldn't care less how people fund their cars, although the phenomenal amount of personal debt that people are willing to take on was a contributing factor towards the last crash, which cost us all and for which we are all still paying. I would not personally go for a PCP agreement and this is where I agree with Gordon to some extent. I imagine that car salespeople love PCP schemes because the same customers trot through their doors every two or three years, many to stay in the same cycle over and over again (I have no statistical information to support this, but PCP schemes seem very popular and cars are often now not advertised by price, but by monthly payments). By extension, if car salespeople love them, they are unlikely to be the best available option for the customer. Regardless of how the financials work, I instinctively do not want to be locked in to anything if I can avoid it. When I needed to use finance, I used bank loans, which were usually competitive and were not attached to the car in any way. This gave me the freedom to keep or sell a car, or to upgrade or downgrade a car at any time. It's largely a psychological thing and perhaps, to some extent, a generational thing.
You really really need to look in to the causes of the last crash, AND where it originated, before blaming high personal UK debt (which is on the decrease by the way).Salesmen love them because it sells cars in a way thats affordable to customers - thats their job, right?
Deep Thought said:
av185 said:
bad company said:
There’s some truth in that. One advantage of PCP tho is the ability to return the car with no further liability.
Apart from being held over a barrel for the grossly inflated cost for 'cosmetic' repairs such as wheel scuffs etc.Generally less of an issue if trading the car.
And just as much an issue if trading it - the dealer will just devalue your car accordingly.
"all four alloys scuffed? Dont worry about it - we'll pay for it ourselves" - said no car dealer ever.
More scare tactic rubbish from people who've never actually done it..
Deep Thought said:
You really really need to look in to the causes of the last crash, AND where it originated, before blaming high personal UK debt (which is on the decrease by the way).
Salesmen love them because it sells cars in a way thats affordable to customers - thats their job, right?
Firstly, personal debt is not on the decrease, for just one source of information, please read : https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/07/a...Salesmen love them because it sells cars in a way thats affordable to customers - thats their job, right?
Secondly, I believe large personal debt did contribute to the depth of the financial crash. It was initiated largely by the misuse of sub prime loans both here and in the USA. It takes two parties for sub prime loans to become that commonplace, over keen lenders and borrowers who borrowed too much and got out of their depth. Just my opinion. I believe that willingness to live in a permanent state of debt is largely a generational thing. My parents' generation and my generation hated to be in debt, except when absolutely necessary, such as mortgage borrowing. We also borrowed to buy cars on HP but very few bought new cars. We bought an old banger, learned to maintain them ourselves to save money and gradually upgraded over the years.Younger generations are far less resistant to large levels of debt. Different attitudes altogether. Many have no choice but to be heavily in debt just to survive, but many do have a choice, and as a result too many people are two or three pay days away from homelessness, and too many people save little or nothing. Millions have no financial buffer at all, but have a shiny new car on the drive. I'm not knocking it, but I couldn't live like that. This is a sweeping generalisation and does not apply to many, but the proliferation of new cars and national debt levels do tell part of the tale. Again, just my opinion.
Deep Thought said:
You really really need to look in to the causes of the last crash, AND where it originated, before blaming high personal UK debt (which is on the decrease by the way).
Salesmen love them because it sells cars in a way thats affordable to customers - thats their job, right?
Irispective of where it started it was caused by irresponsible lending/borrowing and it certainly had a knock on effect to the UK.Salesmen love them because it sells cars in a way thats affordable to customers - thats their job, right?
Salesmen love PCP because they can sell cars to people who otherwise would be looking at either far cheaper cars or pre-owned. (Not ph members obviously because they all have the funds to buy outright but it is invested getting double digit returns after tax)
TheStigsWeeBrother said:
Irispective of where it started it was caused by irresponsible lending/borrowing and it certainly had a knock on effect to the UK.
Salesmen love PCP because they can sell cars to people who otherwise would be looking at either far cheaper cars or pre-owned. (Not ph members obviously because they all have the funds to buy outright but it is invested getting double digit returns after tax)
Who are these plebs that don’t buy new cars outright - send them to the work houses. Salesmen love PCP because they can sell cars to people who otherwise would be looking at either far cheaper cars or pre-owned. (Not ph members obviously because they all have the funds to buy outright but it is invested getting double digit returns after tax)
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