Driving is a team sport with a lot of non-team players
Discussion
This happened on a dual carriageway section of the A303. It was very quiet. Good weather, good visibility. I was approaching a layby and there was an articulated lorry waiting to re-join the road. In my mirror were two cars 300 yards behind. I flashed the lorry and moved into the right hand lane and the lorry started to roll. As I went by the driver waved but he was stopping. In the mirror, both cars behind me stayed in lane and prevented the lorry from pulling out.
Why would they do that? There's a lorry waiting to pull out, indicating, the car in front indicates and moves over, the lorry starts to move and you don't know what's going on? You can't see that? Either of you?
Driving is a team sport. We're all trying to get somewhere and can help one another. But some drivers can't see that help is appropriate, some see it and can't be bothered and some see it and are deliberately obstructive because they can. Some are asleep at the wheel. Not actually asleep but totally unaware of what's going on.
It's so easy to work together and costs nothing.
Why would they do that? There's a lorry waiting to pull out, indicating, the car in front indicates and moves over, the lorry starts to move and you don't know what's going on? You can't see that? Either of you?
Driving is a team sport. We're all trying to get somewhere and can help one another. But some drivers can't see that help is appropriate, some see it and can't be bothered and some see it and are deliberately obstructive because they can. Some are asleep at the wheel. Not actually asleep but totally unaware of what's going on.
It's so easy to work together and costs nothing.
I'm with you OP, however most people are so wrapped up in their own bubble that it's a minor miracle we even move an inch.
The way I look at good driving is doing your own thing, making decent progress, but without causing another road user to have to change their speed/braking/placement unnecessarily. Basically to have the lowest possible impact on those around me.
If others could do the same, I'd be happy.
The way I look at good driving is doing your own thing, making decent progress, but without causing another road user to have to change their speed/braking/placement unnecessarily. Basically to have the lowest possible impact on those around me.
If others could do the same, I'd be happy.
Quite recently my wife asked me what I think about when I'm driving. She was surprised when I said I think about driving. I'm thinking about what I'm doing, what the car's doing and what others are doing. I met an old boy years ago who told me all the time he's driving he's running scenarios through his mind, "If this happens, I'll do that. If that happens, I'll do this. If that car pulls out, I'll drive off there." I don't go quite that far, but it worked for him. He was in his eighties and claimed he hadn't had an accident since he was a teenager.
On another note - I'm doing driver training for an Advanced qualification to then move on to Blue Lights at the moment.
It's constant hazard awareness, assessment and necessary course of action with verbalisation of your thought process. Really makes you aware of the multitude of information that should be noted and acted upon.
It's constant hazard awareness, assessment and necessary course of action with verbalisation of your thought process. Really makes you aware of the multitude of information that should be noted and acted upon.
DickyC said:
Driving is a team sport. We're all trying to get somewhere and can help one another. But some drivers can't see that help is appropriate, some see it and can't be bothered and some see it and are deliberately obstructive because they can. Some are asleep at the wheel. Not actually asleep but totally unaware of what's going on.
It's so easy to work together and costs nothing.
I have colleagues who are quite reasonable and charming in person and yet who turn into dIt's so easy to work together and costs nothing.
heads when behind the wheel of a car. One of my managers would think nothing of trying to fk someone over in his car through blocking. A good 40% of drivers are the ME! ME! ME! generation. All that matters is them and the world stops and revolves around them and their inane manoeuvres. That will never change and will get worse with the lack of general policing.My view is that I drive to ghost along, that is, I drive to minimise my interference with other roads users. I concentrate and drive away from lights promptly, I won't do a u-turn in a busy street etc. Sure sometimes I have priority and will interfere with other road users. Driving is a great social leveller. You can be a hobo in a 25 year old car and you will at times have priority over a social climber in a premium car with a prestigious job and is used to getting their own way.
The way I think about driving is that every car could contain a psychopathic Kenneth Noye - it's better to be delayed by a few seconds and alive, than dead right.
DickyC said:
This happened on a dual carriageway section of the A303. It was very quiet. Good weather, good visibility. I was approaching a layby and there was an articulated lorry waiting to re-join the road. In my mirror were two cars 300 yards behind. I flashed the lorry and moved into the right hand lane and the lorry started to roll. As I went by the driver waved but he was stopping. In the mirror, both cars behind me stayed in lane and prevented the lorry from pulling out.
Why would they do that? There's a lorry waiting to pull out, indicating, the car in front indicates and moves over, the lorry starts to move and you don't know what's going on? You can't see that? Either of you?
Driving is a team sport. We're all trying to get somewhere and can help one another. But some drivers can't see that help is appropriate, some see it and can't be bothered and some see it and are deliberately obstructive because they can. Some are asleep at the wheel. Not actually asleep but totally unaware of what's going on.
It's so easy to work together and costs nothing.
In all fairness this could quite easily have resulted in an accident.Why would they do that? There's a lorry waiting to pull out, indicating, the car in front indicates and moves over, the lorry starts to move and you don't know what's going on? You can't see that? Either of you?
Driving is a team sport. We're all trying to get somewhere and can help one another. But some drivers can't see that help is appropriate, some see it and can't be bothered and some see it and are deliberately obstructive because they can. Some are asleep at the wheel. Not actually asleep but totally unaware of what's going on.
It's so easy to work together and costs nothing.
What if the lorry driver misinterpreted your flash as a signal that the road behind was clear and pulled out without looking?
By "inviting" the lorry to pull out when the road is not clear, you are assuming the lorry driver will still check, and that the two drivers following will see what's going on and also move across. That's an awful lot of assumptions for and HGV and two cars on a dual carriageway...
The two drivers following may not have been asleep at the wheel but been aware that the road behind was empty ("very quiet") and reasoned "it's my right of way, the lorry can join after me, there is no need for me to change lanes"...
In these situations I always pull across if I can, but then let other road users assess the situation and act appropriately. I certainly wouldn't flash an HGV out if the road wasn't clear...
I think "half wits" is a bit strong. Discourteous maybe.
It's the responsibility of the vehicle joining to "slot themselves" into the traffic flow. Like I say if it was "very quiet" (your words) they may have judged that the lorry driver could easily rejoin the road after them. Or maybe they aren't confident drivers and don't want to be in the outside lane? In any case, how were they to know that you'd flashed the lorry out?
I've just looked it up - it takes 10 seconds to cover 300 yards at 60mph. Not too long for the HGV to wait, but pushing it for two cars to realise that you've yielded priority on their behalf.
It's the responsibility of the vehicle joining to "slot themselves" into the traffic flow. Like I say if it was "very quiet" (your words) they may have judged that the lorry driver could easily rejoin the road after them. Or maybe they aren't confident drivers and don't want to be in the outside lane? In any case, how were they to know that you'd flashed the lorry out?
I've just looked it up - it takes 10 seconds to cover 300 yards at 60mph. Not too long for the HGV to wait, but pushing it for two cars to realise that you've yielded priority on their behalf.
One of the most infruriating things I experience on the road is something I call “ineedtobeinfrontofyouitis”. This occurs when you are cruising down a road, the road ahead is clear and the road behind you is clear, yet as you approach a side turn someone absolutely has to just pull out in front of you and then accelerate painfully slowly up to around 40-50mph (we are on a NSL road for most irritating effect). This causes you to have to slow down. The best ones are when the driver in front then decides about 500 yards along the road that they want to turn right and so slow down to a complete stop before clearing the carriageway.
Why in god’s name could they just have waited for me to pass on by and pull out behind me? Drives me utterly insane.
Why in god’s name could they just have waited for me to pass on by and pull out behind me? Drives me utterly insane.
Okay, here's one for you. Also on a dual carriageway section of the A303 (me poor old mum's not well in Devon and I'm up and down a lot). Again the road was quiet, it was daylight with good conditions. Bowling along the slow lane I catch up with a bloke going slightly slower in the outside lane. I wasn't in a hurry so I just hung back and went at his speed. After a mile or so there's a layby with someone waiting to pull out. This time I didn't flash but simply pulled out behind the right hand lane moron. What could possinly go wrong? Instead of staying in the right hand lane allowing the car out of the layby, he sees me at last and moves into the slow lane cutting the bloke off.
Sake.
Sake.
DickyC said:
Okay, here's one for you. Also on a dual carriageway section of the A303 (me poor old mum's not well in Devon and I'm up and down a lot). Again the road was quiet, it was daylight with good conditions. Bowling along the slow lane I catch up with a bloke going slightly slower in the outside lane. I wasn't in a hurry so I just hung back and went at his speed. After a mile or so there's a layby with someone waiting to pull out. This time I didn't flash but simply pulled out behind the right hand lane moron. What could possinly go wrong? Instead of staying in the right hand lane allowing the car out of the layby, he sees me at last and moves into the slow lane cutting the bloke off.
Sake.
You spooked him. I would have eased back, observed car waiting to pull out, and not pull out until lane 2 driver was past or close to lay-by, indicated and then pull out, at such a point that you do not inconvenience bloke in lay-by, nor spook the car in lane 2. You would need to have dropped back a bit more for that to work smoothly. Your immediate and sudden (to him) presence behind him will influence his next action, something to be aware of. If I could not move to lane 2, I would cover or sound the horn, I certainly would not flash a warning. If I had to sound the horn, I would feel my observation and anticipation was at fault.Sake.
The trouble is though, that when it works, it works well and it works smoothly and it takes very little effort. See a situation, make space, everybody's happy. A couple of posts back funinhounslow saying it would be ten seconds. Ten seconds is an eternity in real driving. Even in Hounslow I would have thought.
DickyC said:
Quite recently my wife asked me what I think about when I'm driving. She was surprised when I said I think about driving. I'm thinking about what I'm doing, what the car's doing and what others are doing. I met an old boy years ago who told me all the time he's driving he's running scenarios through his mind, "If this happens, I'll do that. If that happens, I'll do this. If that car pulls out, I'll drive off there." I don't go quite that far, but it worked for him. He was in his eighties and claimed he hadn't had an accident since he was a teenager.
I reckon anyone with a motorbike does the same, even if they are in a car at the time.funinhounslow said:
In all fairness this could quite easily have resulted in an accident.
What if the lorry driver misinterpreted your flash as a signal that the road behind was clear and pulled out without looking?
By "inviting" the lorry to pull out when the road is not clear, you are assuming the lorry driver will still check, and that the two drivers following will see what's going on and also move across. That's an awful lot of assumptions for and HGV and two cars on a dual carriageway...
The two drivers following may not have been asleep at the wheel but been aware that the road behind was empty ("very quiet") and reasoned "it's my right of way, the lorry can join after me, there is no need for me to change lanes"...
In these situations I always pull across if I can, but then let other road users assess the situation and act appropriately. I certainly wouldn't flash an HGV out if the road wasn't clear...
I drive a lorry, lorry driver will always even if someone has flashed him out.What if the lorry driver misinterpreted your flash as a signal that the road behind was clear and pulled out without looking?
By "inviting" the lorry to pull out when the road is not clear, you are assuming the lorry driver will still check, and that the two drivers following will see what's going on and also move across. That's an awful lot of assumptions for and HGV and two cars on a dual carriageway...
The two drivers following may not have been asleep at the wheel but been aware that the road behind was empty ("very quiet") and reasoned "it's my right of way, the lorry can join after me, there is no need for me to change lanes"...
In these situations I always pull across if I can, but then let other road users assess the situation and act appropriately. I certainly wouldn't flash an HGV out if the road wasn't clear...
Well done OP.
DickyC said:
Okay, here's one for you. Also on a dual carriageway section of the A303 (me poor old mum's not well in Devon and I'm up and down a lot). Again the road was quiet, it was daylight with good conditions. Bowling along the slow lane I catch up with a bloke going slightly slower in the outside lane. I wasn't in a hurry so I just hung back and went at his speed. After a mile or so there's a layby with someone waiting to pull out. This time I didn't flash but simply pulled out behind the right hand lane moron. What could possinly go wrong? Instead of staying in the right hand lane allowing the car out of the layby, he sees me at last and moves into the slow lane cutting the bloke off.
Sake.
Well for a start it's not a "slow lane".Sake.
You can't expect other road users to second guess your intentions. If someone is (rightly or wrongly) in the outside lane and a car pulls out behind them, they would reasonably assume you wanted to get past and therefore they should move to the left.
And again, if the road's quiet why the eagerness to let someone out of a lay-by? Just drive past and let them sort themselves out. That would seem to be the preferable option in this situation rather than pulling out behind someone you've acknowledged is a poor driver, and - as noted above - "spooking" them.
I use the A303 quite a bit too and if I can help someone to join by moving over I will. But that's where it ends. I won't flash people out or expect other road users to be mind readers about my intentions. If someone's pulled into a layby they should expect to have to wait sometimes to rejoin the road. That's just the way it goes.
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