Cars that are too good to change
Discussion
RSTurboPaul said:
I have zero desire to buy anything full of unnecessary technology (traction control, stability control, reversing cameras and/or sensors, tyre pressure monitoring systems, lane keeping assist, automatic emergency braking, satnav, GPS-tracking, etc...) so like the poster above, I'll keep on running the two cars we have - both of which are a quarter of a century old.
I do wonder if more people will hang onto their cars longer if/when 'intelligent'
speed limiters and electronic vehicle identification and GPS tracking become mandatory - apart from the few Kings of the Road who claim to never break the speed limit or any law, I would hope that the vast majority of the population can see this intrusive Big Brother technology for what it is. (Although I won't hold my breath...)
Some of that unnecessary technology may help save your life in the event of an accident. Modern cars are significantly safer than those which are a quarter of a century old. I can see from this thread that having the safest car possible isn't a priority for some people. I do wonder if more people will hang onto their cars longer if/when 'intelligent'
speed limiters and electronic vehicle identification and GPS tracking become mandatory - apart from the few Kings of the Road who claim to never break the speed limit or any law, I would hope that the vast majority of the population can see this intrusive Big Brother technology for what it is. (Although I won't hold my breath...)raspy said:
RSTurboPaul said:
I have zero desire to buy anything full of unnecessary technology (traction control, stability control, reversing cameras and/or sensors, tyre pressure monitoring systems, lane keeping assist, automatic emergency braking, satnav, GPS-tracking, etc...) so like the poster above, I'll keep on running the two cars we have - both of which are a quarter of a century old.
I do wonder if more people will hang onto their cars longer if/when 'intelligent' speed limiters and electronic vehicle identification and GPS tracking become mandatory - apart from the few Kings of the Road who claim to never break the speed limit or any law, I would hope that the vast majority of the population can see this intrusive Big Brother technology for what it is. (Although I won't hold my breath...)
Some of that unnecessary technology may help save your life in the event of an accident. Modern cars are significantly safer than those which are a quarter of a century old. I can see from this thread that having the safest car possible isn't a priority for some people. I do wonder if more people will hang onto their cars longer if/when 'intelligent'
speed limiters and electronic vehicle identification and GPS tracking become mandatory - apart from the few Kings of the Road who claim to never break the speed limit or any law, I would hope that the vast majority of the population can see this intrusive Big Brother technology for what it is. (Although I won't hold my breath...)All too many modern cars however have distilled out all the "fun" bits of driving. The steering has no feedback. The brakes are over-assisted with no feel, the throttle is electric and modulates your inputs etc etc etc. That's before you get onto engine or gearbox preference.
I'd be perfectly happy with a "modern safer car" *if* they did one with a decent engine and gearbox that wasn't worse to drive than it's predecessor. Although of course, mine is 9 years old not 25 and is a 5* Euro NCAP car for adult occupant, 4* for Child occupant and apart from pedestrian safety where it only scores 2* there isn't going to be any real difference between it and the very latest one.
Fastdruid said:
raspy said:
RSTurboPaul said:
I have zero desire to buy anything full of unnecessary technology (traction control, stability control, reversing cameras and/or sensors, tyre pressure monitoring systems, lane keeping assist, automatic emergency braking, satnav, GPS-tracking, etc...) so like the poster above, I'll keep on running the two cars we have - both of which are a quarter of a century old.
I do wonder if more people will hang onto their cars longer if/when 'intelligent' speed limiters and electronic vehicle identification and GPS tracking become mandatory - apart from the few Kings of the Road who claim to never break the speed limit or any law, I would hope that the vast majority of the population can see this intrusive Big Brother technology for what it is. (Although I won't hold my breath...)
Some of that unnecessary technology may help save your life in the event of an accident. Modern cars are significantly safer than those which are a quarter of a century old. I can see from this thread that having the safest car possible isn't a priority for some people. I do wonder if more people will hang onto their cars longer if/when 'intelligent'
speed limiters and electronic vehicle identification and GPS tracking become mandatory - apart from the few Kings of the Road who claim to never break the speed limit or any law, I would hope that the vast majority of the population can see this intrusive Big Brother technology for what it is. (Although I won't hold my breath...)All too many modern cars however have distilled out all the "fun" bits of driving. The steering has no feedback. The brakes are over-assisted with no feel, the throttle is electric and modulates your inputs etc etc etc. That's before you get onto engine or gearbox preference.
I'd be perfectly happy with a "modern safer car" *if* they did one with a decent engine and gearbox that wasn't worse to drive than it's predecessor. Although of course, mine is 9 years old not 25 and is a 5* Euro NCAP car for adult occupant, 4* for Child occupant and apart from pedestrian safety where it only scores 2* there isn't going to be any real difference between it and the very latest one.
Additionally, one's appetite for / aversion to risk is a deciding factor in many choices in life, including choice of vehicle, I would say. That one person has a higher tolerance of risk does not mean that they are wantonly seeking danger and/or place no priority on safety; more that they acknowledge and understand that risks are higher, and accept that and any consequences it may bring, while actively seeking to manage/minimise risk on a moment-by-moment basis.
If everyone wanted to drive the safest car possible, no-one would ride a motorcycle, all cyclists would wear helmets and elbow-pads and knee-pads, no moving vehicle (including trains) would ever exceed 20mph (the speed that is apparently our 'maximum design speed' as humans), and there would be zero classic cars in existence because all vehicles would be worthless and/or scrapped the moment a safer vehicle was produced.
The perception of safety also influences decision-making. Arguably there is a lot of risk compensation going on out on the roads, with people tailgating on the motorway, driving too fast in poor weather, driving aggressively and/or road-raging... because they have ABS, airbags, emergency braking systems, wide alloys and expensive tyres, a solidly built and quiet 'cage' to protect them, etc. This seems to result in them feeling like any situation is recoverable and an accident just won't happen, and that they will be impervious to the effects of any accident that might occur in the apparently unlikely event it does. They therefore seem to plough on regardless of the circumstances and without due consideration for possible outcomes for themselves, nevermind others on the road, rather than driving as cautiously as those of us aware of higher risk.
Collisions will happen no matter what people are driving, of course, it seems an inevitability given the amount of miles travelled, the number of people using the transport network and the variability of their state of mind and driving skills, but the modern way of thinking seems to be to switch-off and rely on the box one is travelling in to save one from the effects of a collision, rather than being alert, thinking about what the vehicle and other road users are doing, and actively seeking to avoid a collision in the first place.
Personally speaking, I'd rather be an alert and safe driver in any car than an uninvolved driver in an ultra-safe car.
raspy said:
Some of that unnecessary technology may help save your life in the event of an accident. Modern cars are significantly safer than those which are a quarter of a century old. I can see from this thread that having the safest car possible isn't a priority for some people.
I've never bought a casr based on safety ratings, I've never even considered them to be honest. My current daily driver is a Volvo V60 T4 which I bought because I needed an estate car and I wanted to get away from diesels, hard to find a used car of the size which is petrol and not a base spec car. The Volvo is good at what it does but a few of the safety features bug me massively and I've switched them off, collision warning being the main one, way too sensitive and a massive pain in the rear.
For me modern technology is becoming to invasive in some respects
We've had an '04 plate Lexus IS300 Sportcross from 20k miles, bought in 2011, now at about 100k mikes. The subject of much discussion over the past year about whether we keep it or not It's worthless, yet I suspect, significantly more reliable than almost anything comparable but newer. As of now, we expect to run it for another 50k.
My Evo 8. In a word, irreplaceable. 50k miles on it. Reliable, seats 4 with luggage, not too big, quick, handles better than almost anything, simple mods give nigh on 400 brake. Worth maybe 12k. There isn't anything else for the money that can do what it does. I've had it 16 years. It's shared garage space with a lot of other, more exotic stuff, and seen them all off.
My Evo 8. In a word, irreplaceable. 50k miles on it. Reliable, seats 4 with luggage, not too big, quick, handles better than almost anything, simple mods give nigh on 400 brake. Worth maybe 12k. There isn't anything else for the money that can do what it does. I've had it 16 years. It's shared garage space with a lot of other, more exotic stuff, and seen them all off.
LeoSayer said:
pfnsht said:
Corrado VR6 - drives nice, big naturally aspirated, rare/interesting to poeple who like them, no driver aids (except abs), pop up spoiler, sounds nice, weighs the same as a modern fiesta but not a generic modern eco box. Costs very little buy. Gets 36mpg on a gentle run and averages 29mpg most of the time. Can fit the kids in the back. Ticks quite a few boxes for me.
It has some form of traction control as well.I still miss mine 20 years after selling it.
I'd have mine back in a minute. (and it replaced a 20v urquattro)
Well my car has been with me since 2008 and I have no reason to think I will let it go. It's not economical to fuel or tax but the 3-5 thousand miles I use means it is still special when the key is turned. I cover some 40 50 thousand a year and enjoy most of that, must be nuts!
Well here a cheap plug for my car and hopefully some may see why it's a keeper
https://youtu.be/L2YXplOk20Q
Well here a cheap plug for my car and hopefully some may see why it's a keeper
https://youtu.be/L2YXplOk20Q
I've had a 2003 406 coupe in hdi flavour for the last three years. Costs about £150 to insure, does a minimum of 40 mpg, carries three of us on the school run, looks great, is comfortable, very nice to drive, exceedingly reliable, has heated leather electric recaro memory seats and passes MOT with ease, despite having 165,000 + on the clock.
I can't think of anything I'd rather own and pay for with my own money instead.
I can't think of anything I'd rather own and pay for with my own money instead.
I’ve been a habitual changer of cars for many a year now. Working in the motor trade does that to you, and you’re always on the look out for the next profit, however my latest chariot is causing me some dilemma. I’m on my 5th Saab (I just “get” them), and undoubtedly the best of the lot. It’s my second turn with a 9-5 Aero, and this one has been tweaked and modded with all the right bits by the previous owner, and it’s a joy.
Trouble is, I’m no longer in the trade, and I’m now a full-time parent, so it’s doing just under 10 miles a day on the school run! I keep thinking about selling it and buying just a little Fiat 500/Mini Cooper instead, but every time I get it it’s supremely comfortable seats, hear it’s grumble from the exhaust, and feel the torque from that breathed on 2.3 turbo, I just can’t think of anything else I’d rather be driving. The fact that it’s a Saab too means I’m confident that my 5 year old is as safe as houses inside it should the worse happen. Also a reason why our other car is a Volvo XC60!
I think I have a keeper on my hands.
Trouble is, I’m no longer in the trade, and I’m now a full-time parent, so it’s doing just under 10 miles a day on the school run! I keep thinking about selling it and buying just a little Fiat 500/Mini Cooper instead, but every time I get it it’s supremely comfortable seats, hear it’s grumble from the exhaust, and feel the torque from that breathed on 2.3 turbo, I just can’t think of anything else I’d rather be driving. The fact that it’s a Saab too means I’m confident that my 5 year old is as safe as houses inside it should the worse happen. Also a reason why our other car is a Volvo XC60!
I think I have a keeper on my hands.
stedaley said:
Auto or manual? Ive been looking at these! Let me know what they are like, ive got a new commute and deliberating away from a diesel! no issues? Things to look out for?
mine is an AUTO SE-Lthe auto box suits the car perfectly, not sure why anyone would get a manual of these to be fair.
the only got in not great on fuel rest of it is amazing for the money, you can get them for 3500-6000 and with the kit, build etc taken into account they're hard to beat.
I have had 0 issues with mine, previous owner had it for 7 years and had one problem, battery cable snapped that's it.
things to look out for are mainly calipers, rears do like to seize, fronts are the same.. so :
waterpump does start seeping
brakes seize(slider pins need greasing not part of lexus service hence the issue)
rear boot struts fail after 7-8 years (not a major issue)
that's about it of top of my head.
really bulletproof cars as long as servicing is done properly!
grudas said:
mine is an AUTO SE-L
the auto box suits the car perfectly, not sure why anyone would get a manual of these to be fair.
the only got in not great on fuel rest of it is amazing for the money, you can get them for 3500-6000 and with the kit, build etc taken into account they're hard to beat.
I have had 0 issues with mine, previous owner had it for 7 years and had one problem, battery cable snapped that's it.
things to look out for are mainly calipers, rears do like to seize, fronts are the same.. so :
waterpump does start seeping
brakes seize(slider pins need greasing not part of lexus service hence the issue)
rear boot struts fail after 7-8 years (not a major issue)
that's about it of top of my head.
really bulletproof cars as long as servicing is done properly!
Another one who can vouch for these. We had one as a stopgap for a couple of years, and it led us into buying an IS-F. The IS250 we had was a great car, if I didn't need space for the dog, I'd be running another one now, I love them. The water pump thing is usually just a stuck pressure relief valve causing them to blow out a small amount of water occasionally, not something catastrophic. It's very common on all Toyota and Lexus models.the auto box suits the car perfectly, not sure why anyone would get a manual of these to be fair.
the only got in not great on fuel rest of it is amazing for the money, you can get them for 3500-6000 and with the kit, build etc taken into account they're hard to beat.
I have had 0 issues with mine, previous owner had it for 7 years and had one problem, battery cable snapped that's it.
things to look out for are mainly calipers, rears do like to seize, fronts are the same.. so :
waterpump does start seeping
brakes seize(slider pins need greasing not part of lexus service hence the issue)
rear boot struts fail after 7-8 years (not a major issue)
that's about it of top of my head.
really bulletproof cars as long as servicing is done properly!
Heaveho said:
Another one who can vouch for these. We had one as a stopgap for a couple of years, and it led us into buying an IS-F. The IS250 we had was a great car, if I didn't need space for the dog, I'd be running another one now, I love them. The water pump thing is usually just a stuck pressure relief valve causing them to blow out a small amount of water occasionally, not something catastrophic. It's very common on all Toyota and Lexus models.
Ive been looking at these for a while but really don't know vs the 130i, a hard choice! auto cruiser vs manual more enjoyable drive.and now I think i'm looking at a larger car for the hell of it! I don't even think id use it! My trip to work is 8 miles each way and a mix of either a motorway sprint or small b roads. either the bmw or is250 would be overkill I think
started looking at the swift sport so I can always go the b roads and save money on tax/insurance/running costs. stedaley said:
Ive been looking at these for a while but really don't know vs the 130i, a hard choice! auto cruiser vs manual more enjoyable drive.
and now I think i'm looking at a larger car for the hell of it! I don't even think id use it! My trip to work is 8 miles each way and a mix of either a motorway sprint or small b roads. either the bmw or is250 would be overkill I think started looking at the swift sport so I can always go the b roads and save money on tax/insurance/running costs.
I've had a lot of daft stuff. I still have some of it, including a 400 brake Evo 8, and yet the IS was one of the most surprising cars I've ever driven. It's just quick enough to be interesting, the steering is a revelation, and it was the first car I ever drove that made me think a car can be better as an auto. I thought it was a lot of fun on a country road, all the more so because it doesn't look like it should be. and now I think i'm looking at a larger car for the hell of it! I don't even think id use it! My trip to work is 8 miles each way and a mix of either a motorway sprint or small b roads. either the bmw or is250 would be overkill I think
started looking at the swift sport so I can always go the b roads and save money on tax/insurance/running costs. I wouldn't give the BM a second glance in a choice between the two. Apart from anything else, I like reliable cars. Having said all of that, I've got a soft spot for the Swift you mention, so fair enough.
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